Wednesday, 06 April 2011
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What is the Absolute Truth?
There is such thing as truth. It is real. Truth does exist. How do I know this? Because the phrase "There is no such thing as truth" doesn't work. It's a contradiction. If that statement is true, then you've just asserted truth!
"Wait, hold on a second," the skeptic might say. "I do believe truth exists. It just depends on what kind of truth you're talking about. Are you talking about subjective truth or absolute truth? It's absolute truth that doesn't exist. There are no absolutes."
Okay, let's try it your way: "There is no such thing as absolute truth." Nope, that doesn't work either. If that statement is absolutely true, you're still contradicting yourself. In fact, to say that truth is absolute is redundant. If something is true, it's absolutely true.
If you say the truth is relative, it may be because you don't want to face the truth. Who wants to be told they're wrong, right? So you push some convoluted definition of tolerance: "What's true for you is not necessarily true for me. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe, and we can both be right!" Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
Say you and I were sitting on a bench having this conversation about truth and someone came up to us and asked, "Which way is east?" If I pointed east and you pointed north, you're wrong. It doesn't matter how much you believe your direction is the right answer. It ain't east!
Then let's say you go on a rant about how east is relative: "Well, the names that we have for our directions are really pretty arbitrary. What I call east you might call something else in another language. You could be from a culture where your east is actually west and your north is south. You might perceive the globe upside down or sideways. Who's to say that the poles really run top to bottom and not side to side?"
As you ramble on, the only thing you've managed to convince this person is that you're lost. Then they'll look at me and say, "So east is that way, you say?" See, no one really wants a relative answer. They want the truth!
You might say truth is relative but you don't really believe that. When you come up to a red light, you stop and you expect everyone else to obey the rules. When the light is green, you'll drive through safely with little concern that anyone is going to plow into the side of you. It doesn't matter whether or not you are aware of the rules about traffic lights. If you violate the rules, you'll face the consequences -- even deadly consequences.
Regarding the question of what comes after this life, doing your own thing or believing the wrong thing could have eternal consequences. "Eternity is long, don't be wrong," as the saying goes. So it's vitally important to search for and know the right answer.
Jesus came to show us the truth. I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I know that I am saved for all eternity because I've put my faith in Him. It is a logical and reasonable belief supported by solid truth. Anything else that violates this truth is a lie.
The truth is real. It does exist and you can know what it is. Seek the truth with all your heart, and you will find it. Your life depends on it.
John 3:21 "Whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."Do you think truth is sometimes relative, or is there an absolute truth? What is that absolute truth? If Jesus Christ is the absolute truth, what gives you the faith to believe that?
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Comments (12)
“The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in
making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be
mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid.” GK Chesterton
You say..."Jesus came to show us the truth." I say He IS the truth (Jn 14:6)...which is a bit of a mystery to me. So while you talk about absolute truth and relative truth, it seems there's still plenty of room for enduring mystery.
And in my experience holding onto an absolute 'truth' doesn't lead to deeper more intimate love for others. I've found that I'm tempted to defend absolute truths...at the expense of the relationship. And b/c I believe Jesus seems to suggest loving others is most important (seemingly more important than truth...absolute or otherwise) I now ask myself why its important to me to believe in absolute truth. I've found freedom in the answer to that question.
I definitely believe in absolute truth and that Jesus is it.
i prefer to look at truth this way: some things might be absolute, but there's no way of verifying it. how many people with differing opinions like to claim that it's their way or the highway? what objective facts do they have to offer? if we're just supposed to pick based on our gut feelings, how does that confirm absolute truth when it's obvious people make different decisions?
case in point: Jesus. if he was absolute truth, believing in Him would not require faith... anymore than it requires faith to follow the rules of traffic lights. i also find it kind of strange that you're trying to treat socially complex issues such as religion, sexuality, etc. as though they were something concrete. it makes very little sense for me to believe Christians who say they are the one true faith, when the only way to verify that statement requires something other than faith.
"If you say the truth is relative, it may be because you don't want to face the truth. "
and if you say that your way of looking at the world is the only right way to, it may be because you're so uncomfortable with what you really believe that you need the approval and acceptance of others to believe it.
"It is a logical and reasonable belief supported by solid truth."
then you do not have faith.
I wouldn't confine absolute truth to just Jesus Christ alone. All three persons of the triune Godhead are absolute truth. Why we single out Jesus at the exclusion of the other two persons confounds me. But, the Bible is clear that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all absolute Truth.
In the natural worldview, are laws of nature absolute? I would say they are. We absolutely know each day the sun will rise and the sun will set. We absolutely know when you drop a bowling ball from a balcony it will fall to the ground. We absolutely know that the earth revolves around the sun, and the moon around the earth. We absolutely know that water is comprised of two elements, two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. These laws of nature are absolute, because Christ is what sustains and holds the natural world in which we live (Colossians 1:17).
interesting..
i believe that any truth can be shown to be the truth..
so if anyone ask about this portion, and how to know this is the absolute truth,
Jesus came to show us the truth. I believe in Jesus Christ as my
personal Savior, and I know that I am saved for all eternity because
I've put my faith in Him. It is a logical and reasonable belief
supported by solid truth. Anything else that violates this truth is a
lie.
How is it to know that?
How is it logical? and how is it supprted by solid truth?
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I think you're trying to assert things that don't mesh. Here's what I mean.
First, you're right that peoples opinions about what is true does not count for what is true. Opinions and perceptions do not also equal what is true. Just as Gabe said with his example about which direction is east. East is east. Regardless of what we think, right or wrong, east is still east. The mistake anyone can make is to suggest that their opinion, itself, is truth.
The other conflict is the statement you make about truth/facts and faith. Faith, according to the Bible (and even the dictionary) is evidence of things unseen. Here's what that means.
The common example is that wind on the leaves of a tree. Clearly, we cannot see the wind, just as we cannot see God. But we can see the effects of the wind as it passes by the tree. Trees are not able to sway on their own. They must be affected in order to move. The evidence that there is wind present is that the trees are swaying based on the fact that trees cannot move alone. Thus, I have faith that wind is moving, though I cannot see it, based on factual evidence. Faith is often confused with blind belief. The belief may truly be related to something that is true, but we are not called to believe solely with no evidence and not seek verification. God does bless the believer who has little or no facts to rest his beliefs on (and there's more to that for another time), but God does not want us to rest solely on blind belief.
To argue that Gabe (or anyone else) is uncomfortable with his faith shows a great lack of understanding about who Gabe is and why he believes the way he does. He's a smart man. He works things out and reasons through things with logic and sound thinking. He isn't seeking public aproval. I'm sure he's gotten less than aproval many times. And yet, here he is still professing his faith, knowing he's going to get flack for it. He's not going to change his mind solely because he doesn't get aproval. That line of thinking towards Gabe's beliefs is ill-founded.
Also, just look at the STDs, broken families, murders, etc, that exist today. Christianity teaches how to prevent these things, and it DOES work. The fact that such things exist clearly shows that there are consequences for violating the value of sex, being selfish, and devaluing life. So really, that argument cannot hold.
@Watchman - I don't think Gabe was intentionally suggesting that there is only Christ. Occasionally, when we refer to God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, it's understood that the Trinity is fully involved or referenced. Either way, Jesus did say He is the way, the truth, and the life, and that the only way to the Father was through Him. There wasn't a denial of the truth of the Father.
No truth is not relative
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga -
"The common example is that wind on the leaves of a tree. Clearly, we cannot see the wind, just as we cannot see God."
true, but there are other ways to test the existence of wind (measuring barometric pressure, studying air currents and the movement of air between hot and cold fronts, etc). what other ways do you have to test the existence of God? either religion is akin to science, or it isn't. if it is, we should hold it to the same standards throughout, not just when it's convenient to prove your point.
simply put, i don't believe that religion and philosophy can be an exact science. therefore, it cannot be absolute truth.
"Christianity teaches how to prevent these things, and it DOES work."
then why is the divorce rate higher among Christians? why are all of the women i know who got knocked up in high school extremely conservative? and why are the only successful marriages i've seen in the last several years completely devoid of religious belief, let alone Christian belief?
actually, that sums up my opposition to absolute truth very well: it doesn't work. you cannot have a belief in absolute truth without feeling the need to enforce it upon others, which is where the system often breaks down. the OP compared the absolute truth of religion to the absolute truth of traffic lights. the problem with that is that Christians seem to continuously fail at following their own absolute truths (not to mention, spend more time debating absolute truth itself rather than coming up with better ways to follow it) far more than traffic lights fail at directing traffic. if they had the success rate of Christianity, i'd be avoiding the roads for the rest of my life. conversely, if Christian behavior was half as reliable as traffic lights, i'd convert in a heartbeat. if your truth is absolute, i would assume your success rate would be higher.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Yes, and God gives us ways to let Him show us that He is real. Most people are either unwilling or too impatient to allow God to show us that He exists. While we cannot put Him under a microscope, He is not beyond being able to reveal Himself to us. The problem arises when we put limits on what we're willing to accept as proof of His reality.
Even our own science is not perfect. Many assumptions have been made that have yet to have verifiable confirmation. Evolution being one such topic.
The difference is that science and religion emplore different questions and different methods to answer those questions. But the common thread is logic. Religion - well, Christianity, at least - seeks to answer why and what. Science usually asks how. Science seeks how things work, and religion seeks its purpose, among other things. To criticize religion using scientific standards is like criticizing a mop because it doesn't function like a broom. But both serve similar purposes in that they are intended to clean an area. And a broom can't function very well when you get it wet like a mop. Truly, they do work together, but they must be allowed to work under their intended functions and not confuse the two.
When you ask your questions in response to my statement that Christianity does work, you seem to be confusing a few things.
One, Christianity does work...when it's applied appropriately. Just as you cannot expect a car to function if you don't first make sure the gas is in the car, the key is in the ignition, and other things. Some people don't even get IN the car and then say it is all a joke. They can't get to where they want to go because they haven't even opened the door! So it is with Christianity, few actually apply it the way it was meant to be used - daily.
Why divorce is higher among Christians? I don't exactly why, except that those couples have failed to remember Jesus in their lives. They have allowed bitterness and strife to take hold. That isn't Christianity's fault, but that of the couple's. Why do even conservative girls have sex and get pregnant? Because even Christians are prone to sin. Even Christians give into temptations and desires (good desires misplaced). Even Christians struggle to obey what they know is right. (Did you read my testimony about my sexual past that I posted last year? You might recall that I was a Christian when I gave up my virginity. But I trusted in God's mercy and, beyond all explanation, felt His love pour through me when I asked whole-heartedly for forgiveness and repented of what I had been doing.) Why are some non-Christian couples seeming to have better relationships? Because even non-Christians know the truth in their hearts. Some people have an instinct about what is right and choose to apply that knowledge. Ironic, I agree, that there are non-Christians who follow what is good and right better than Christians. It seems backwards, I know.
Your last statements actually hold a lot of sound consideration, if not good logic. What I mean is this. You're right, that it doesn't make sense that if there IS an absolute truth, why aren't more Christians following it? But that's the thing. Humans have the ability to make choices. Just as non-Christians do. A traffic light system can be perfect, and yet it has no effect if no one chooses to follow the lights. That's not the fault of the traffic lights but of the drivers! The system works perfectly, but the desired results will not come about if the lights are not followed appropriately. So it is with the Christian. If he follows God's leading, then there will be success! But if he doesn't, then, in the end, he will be met with eternal suffering. Again, that's the fault of the person, not God.
If there was no such thing as absolute truth, and it was all relative, then everyone should be having successful lives no matter what they choose to believe or do with their lives. But that there is pain and suffering at all shows that there is an absolute truth, because so many people act contrary to what has been shown to work.
What are your thoughts about all that? Anything that didn't make sense?
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - "simply put, i don't believe that religion and philosophy can be an exact science. therefore, it cannot be absolute truth. "
Our claim, here, is that God gave us the Truth. I invite you to read any of the things that Jesus says and does in the Bible. These have a profound effect on me... an effect that makes me want to follow Him. I try to make His ways mine, but I do not claim to have come up with this Truth.
Scientific truth is different: a person gets credit for finding truths, here.
Theology is us thinking about the Truth God has revealed to us.. thinking about the mind of God. Philosophy is us thinking about the mind of man. Both of these undertakings are much deeper and harder to express in simple terms than work in the physical sciences for example.
The Word, Jesus, is the Truth made visible for us. But it is still difficult to follow, and people make mistakes. Christianity is still objectively True, because God made it and handed it to us. Not because of man, but for man.
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga -
"Most people are either unwilling or too impatient to allow God to show us that He exists."
last i checked, God is omnipotent. i don't see how proving His existence to us in a definite, objective way messes with our free will. in fact, it seems that the only logical way to reject something is by first accepting that it exists to begin with.
"Even our own science is not perfect."
that's true. but i'm having a hard time remembering the last time a scientific crusade happened. science doesn't pretend or claim to be perfect. it doesn't aspire to be anything more than what it already is.
"One, Christianity does work...when it's applied appropriately."
so who decides when it's applied appropriately? it seems logical that a religion teaching that some people are destined to suffer for eternity, regardless of why, would eventually lead to intolerance, inequality, and hatred of anyone who does not believe. after all, if they're bad enough for God to punish, why not get it started early? and i don't believe that just about Christianity, either. it's just simply the religion that has harassed me the most.
"If there was no such thing as absolute truth, and it was all relative, then everyone should be having successful lives no matter what they choose to believe or do with their lives."
why? my point in saying that was that if a truth is absolute, it has inherent benefits over falsehoods and, therefore, should work better. the fact that someone's personal truth seems irrelevant to someone's success shows me that all truths are equally flawed and equally perfect.
It is one hell of a leap from discussing truth to what happens after death; or absolute truth to Trinitarian Christianity. You seemed to leap from the one to the other.