Saturday, 08 December 2012
-
What If Something Contradicts Scripture?
This is a question that every Christian may face at some point in their life, if they have not many times already. What would you do if you came across strong evidence, as close to definitive proof, that science, history, etc. was inconsistent with a particular section of the Bible, or your interpretation of it?As an example, let's say we find Goliath's skeleton and it turns out to be 5 foot 3 inches, not the monstrous 9+ foot tall individual described in scripture.
Or as a more relevant example to many American Christians, I will borrow a crude notion of evolution often used in Creationist circles. Let's say one day a population of chimpanzees turns into humans, showing that speciation, the generation of new species from old ones, is indeed factual, giving definitive proof of evolution in a relatable organism.
Or to hit closer to home, what would you do if we found Jesus' bones, without any question, laying right where the gospels say He was laid to rest, effectively disproving His physical resurrection?
An appropriate answer for what you would do in any of these scenarios, or some others you can come up with, is not, "That will never happen so I don't have to worry about it." I want you to imagine that these do happen and the probability that they are correct is 99.9999999%. In other words, you'd be deceiving yourself if you said you didn't believe them.
So what would you do?
Would you throw out the Bible? Would you throw out that book of the Bible? That chapter? The relevant verses?
Would you determine that the Bible is fallible? How would that affect the way you read the rest of the Bible?
Would you state that your interpretation of that section of the Bible has been wrong all this time? What if you can't think of another equally likely (or even close to that) interpretation of those verses? And let's say you asked every pastor, priest and rabbi and they didn't have a good alternative interpretation either?
Would you simply throw out the data that conflicts with scripture or your understanding scripture?
Or do you have some other way to deal with this cognitive dissonance?
How do you respond? Has something like this ever happened before, and what was done to address the contradiction? What would you do if something proved scripture false?
RecommendRelated Posts
Post a Comment
- Back to revelife's Revelife Site!
- Note: your comment will appear in revelife's local time zone: GMT -05:00 (Eastern Standard - US, Canada)
About the Author
-
- From: kk_grayfox@xanga
- Name: Chris
- About Me: I love God and I'm a Ph. D student in evolutionary biology, focusing on mammalian systematics and the molecular evolution of vision genes. I'm fascinated by research dealing with the nature of consciousness, and the interface between science and spirituality.
Stats: This Week All Time Posts: 0 9 Views: 0 28900 Comments: 0 947 View all posts by kk_grayfox@xanga
Comments (100)
I've appreciated your honest exploration of your faith in the past...and yet again. This reminds me that syniēmi, one of the Greek words in the NT typically translated into the English word 'understanding,' actually means: to set or bring together in a hostile sense, of combatants
I've found that lots of scripture contradicts my reality and I'm required to wrestle with my interpretation of the Bible AND my reality. I may be tempted to think that both can't be true. Again and again as I wrestle I find that in fact neither can be true without the other...as I discover a deeper more foundational truth that was only revealed through that seeming conflict in logic.
Syniemi is used in Mark 4:12 "seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest haply they should turn again, and it should be forgiven them."
It seems we're not meant to walk only holding others doctrine (teaching), but we're encouraged to fight ourselves to discover truth.
Amen, brother!
My response is to make careful inquiries of the evidence and study for myself the details and kind of research that has been conducted. If I am able, I will posit an answer or direct someone to the resources that provide the answer when actual detailed evidence is provided that disproves the scriptures; up to this point, however, I have seen either "what if" scenarios or ideas and theories that provide limited evidence and details, but that are still far from definitive. "Every coin has two sides", as the saying goes, so I'm a bit skeptical when someone wants to "pay up" with a one sided coin.
I'm sure you'd agree that it would be absurd to provide an answer to the scenarios listed above since none of them are actual scenarios, such as finding Jesus' bones.
One note for me is that I have found the present environment that surrounds this discussion not to be conducive to constructive or fruitful discussion. So, to be truthful, I do not openly discuss this subject with most people anymore (though I used to a lot). Most of my "evolutionary" friends do not seriously consider the evidence or counter-arguments provided. But, I do have one friend that has been both respectful and serious in his discussion of these subject matters and I think the discussions we've engaged in have been mutually beneficial, though, to date, he has never provided any "definitive 99.999999999999999%" evidence to met yet, nor would he ever claim to.
If anyone shall set the authority of Holy Writ against clear and manifest reason, he who does this knows not what he has undertaken; for he opposes to the truth not the meaning of the Bible, which is beyond his comprehension, but rather his own interpretation, not what is in the Bible, but what he has found in himself and imagines to be there.
-Saint Augustine
With the exception of disproving the Resurrection. At that point, I become a Jew ('cause Jews are awesome).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLjHAzqqOm0&feature=youtu.be
what i find strange is that many Christians are willing to pick and choose which Bible verses to apply to their own lives... but they mentally shut down when historical fact contradicts the Bible. even when i was Christian, i understood that the Bible was written by flawed human beings and is, therefore, probably flawed as well.
the truth usually ends up being somewhere in between the evidence and whatever the Bible says. a great example is the deluge myth. the Abrahamic religions aren't the only ones to have a story about a flood that covers the entire world. yet, there is absolutely zero geological evidence for such a thing. in all likelihood, the myths were in response to early human beings finding marine fossils in inland areas. that, and local extreme flooding after the last ice age ended. i used to be a proponent of the Black Sea deluge theory, but there isn't much evidence that it was sudden. and it doesn't account for tribes in the Western hemisphere having the same type of myth.
to answer another question: i don't think it's intelligent of anyone to throw out the entire Bible because of a single mistake. that's certainly not how i became non-Christian.
@thirst2@xanga - Jews ARE awesome. i took the Beliefnet quiz, and apparently i should be a Reformed Jew.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga – I know, right?? I find my Catholic-self getting very serious religion-envy all too often. While I don't know definitively, – from what little I've read and seen alone – I'd probably be a Conservative Jew, with quite a few Reformed habits.
contradicts scripture, so I wouldn't get upset about it.
Well, at least to one point Paul addressed himself in Scripture. If the resurrection be found false, then we are the most pitied of all humans. Review 1 Corinthians 15.
If Jesus' bones were discovered and it was proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, then the whole Bible becomes a work of fiction and countless, countless martyrs died for absolutely nothing whatsoever.
When it comes to Goliath and such like that, however, the important question for any level-headed Christian to ask when something in "reality" (as though the Bible were otherwise...) contradicts what is found in Scripture is, "Is X Bible verse being 100% accurate relevant to faith and morals? In other words, is this factual discrepancy relevant whatsoever to things of eternal consequence?
Goliath being found to be no larger than an average man would have no consequence; it simply means soldiers in those days did what soldiers sometimes do today: tell of an enemy far bigger than the one they actually fought or, perhaps, Goliath seemed a lot bigger in the heat of the moment? In any event, Goliath's height is totally irrelevant when it comes to faith and morals.
Now, however, if you take the approach that the Bible is absolutely inerrant in every single way, that every fact claimed is 100% true and accurate, then yes the day may come when archaeology annihilates the fragile faith of such people.
My friend, hypotheticals like these can't get us any closer to understanding truth.
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (2Co 10:4-5)
If we seek understanding, we must seek it where it can actually be found. Not in imagination, not in hypotheticals, but in obedience! That's how we get understanding, by obeying!
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. (Psa 111:10)
Anyone could have dropped anyone's bones into a box with "GOLIATH" written on it. Any bones found in Ye'shua's tomb would certainly not be Ye'shua's, that is not something that is open to question if we keep faith.
And oh yeah, if a colony of monkeys suddenly becomes human, I would know exactly what was going on!
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. (Mat 3:9)
Stones, monkeys, they're all God's to do with as he wills. Peace to you and all reading
Very well written! To answer your questions, well I am still struggling with that cognitive dissonance with the bible, so I am more in a process right now and don't have a definite (past-tensed) answer for you. But I would Not throw out the entire Bible because of flaws, no I don't think so. I do have my qualms and fears about the Bible, but I have faith that one day those will be worked out.
The Bible is inerrant. There will be no errors found within the Bible because the Bible is the word of God. The world has had 2000 years to locate evidence disproving the Bible and they've only found more and more archaeological evidence PROVING God's existence. "Evolution" (or macroevolution- they keep changing the parameters of the theory so its hard to keep up) is being torn down brick by brick and its all because its a foolish theory to begin with. Lizards suddenly get the urge to fly. Give me a break. The Bible is true, all of it, no argument necessary.
@thirst2@xanga - @flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Wow, nice to meet some fellow lovers of the Jewish people! They ARE an awesome people! It's what defines Jews that's REALLY awesome though - the Torah of God. Most Christians and Jews zero in on "law" when they hear the word Torah, but it means teaching or instruction more often than law! That teaching is so deep, so perfect, so complete... it's beautiful, and it's so important to us as Christians! Have you guys ever looked into Christianity through a Jewish lens? Oh my, it opens this Christian faith up wide and deep, and it's so beautiful!
@Townsend2@xanga - The idea that there is much that is sudden about evolution demonstrates you do not have an understanding of it.
If Christ's bones were found, "we are of all men to be pitied". To quote Paul.
Oftentimes, though, the contradictions that people find in scripture are not contradictions. It takes a complete perspective of all of scripture to wholly understand snippets of scripture; it also takes effective cross-referencing. It takes studying the culture, language, and intent of the original scripture. This all too often isn't done by those who are looking for, and claim they have found, contradictions.
Also--no answer will ever satisfy someone who doesn't believe in God. No explanation, no matter how reasonable and academic, will convince them the Bible is coherent. It oftentimes isn't worth debating it.
Also, I have yet to find historical evidence or scientific evidence that seriously discredits scripture. There is evidence for a flood (the very fact that every culture has, specifically, a flood story should be evidence for some sort of monumental flood), there is evidence for Sodom and Gomorra, there is even evidence of the ten plagues of Egypt. Do I hang my hat on all these findings? No. But for every attempt to defeat scripture with empirical evidence, there is a discovery that bolsters its credibility.
@thirst2@xanga - Why do I need to understand evolution? My Bible already tells me what I need to know. Let's see what the Bible says:
Exodus 20:11 For
insix days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them
is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
It doesn't say that life evolved over billions of years. Either God is right or man is right, make your choice.
And the Bible I read says that it is inerrant
2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”
Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those
who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words or he will rebuke you
and prove you a liar.
One more thing for all those with their doubts. You need to really read and understand the truth. The world is constantly working against God. The Bible says in Romans Chapter 3, "Let God be true, but every man a liar"
So somebody's lying and the God I serve doesn't lie.
@Townsend2@xanga – Under that logic, I assume that you disagreed with the Civil War and wish slavery were still the law of the land; after all, the bible give guidelines to slavery so it couldn't have been wrong, just simply abused and should have been reformed, not abolished (because, after all, the bible says its inerrant).
Speaking of, certainly someone's had to've discussed with you the circular nature of that argument, right? 1) The bible says it's inerrant -> 2) How can you trust this is true? -> 3) The bible says it's inerrant and therefore its claim of inerrancy must be true.
Of course, what if the bible is wrong? Then its claim of inerrancy is wrong. You've done nothing to actually prove that the bible itself is true. I could write on a sheet of paper that everything I will write on the sheet of paper is true just as easily.
What about the two differing creation stories in Genesis? How do you explain this contradiction?
Finally, there has been archaeological evidence against the bible. For example, there is no hard evidence for Jewish enslavement by the Egyptians with evidence actually likely pointing against that narrative.
However, you seem very invested in this world view regardless of what I may say. I've said my piece, let you believe as you choose to, and refrain from creating yet another one of these debates in the revelife comment section.
@thirst2@xanga - The two accounts in Genesis are easily explained.
Genesis 1 was meant to be read as something of an introduction--telling the basic outline of the story to come. Not only that, it is actually written as a traditional Hebrew story rhyme--something that is meant to be chanted or sang, in a folk-lorish way. It isn't meant to give a whole story, or details of a whole story, it is only meant to outline the substance of a story.
Genesis 2 is when we begin to get into real narrative. It is a strikingly different from the sing-songy lilt of the first chapter, and is meant to be read differently. Adam and Eve's creation is recounted in greater detail, and interaction between Adam, Eve, God, and the Snake take on more complex dialogue. Genesis 2 is where the "action" happens, and where is better explained.
Some critics say that Genesis 1, because it doesn't go into the same detail and lists the creatures created in a certain order, is contradicting Genesis 2--but Jews for thousands of years, and learned Christians now, know that it was never meant to be compared in the first place.
Also, concerning the lack of evidence of the Exodus, you might find this historical archeological analysis interesting: http://www.starways.net/lisa/essays/exodus.html
I'm not saying it blows all doubt out of the water, but it presents an interesting case for an Exodus.
@thirst2@xanga - Also, concerning the slavery in scripture charge--
I am not sure if you're referring to the Old or New Testament, but in either case, slavery was not comparable to the modern understanding of slavery which normally conjures up memories of the Civil War or even the sex trade. Slavery was universally a means of employment ("servant" or "butler" could be used interchangeably with their understanding of the word "slave"). Especially in the New Testament, slavery was just being an indentured servant. Instead of being thrown into prison for not being able to pay a debt, you could work for a family to pay off your debt, and at the end of the payment you had the option of staying or not. Paul said that masters and slaves should honor one another and respect one another. But he didn't meant at all in a cruel, racially-based, forceful way.
@Jenny_Wren@xanga – I agree; what's also interesting about the first creation story is that the word for “abyss” in the opening line is the name of a Babylonian god of chaos spelled backwards. Add to that that the world is created in an order of lowest and simplest forms to the highest and most complex and it could be argued that the story was trying to convey a world created by a God of order juxtaposed against the Babylonian god of chaos.
I think it's pretty clear the stories were trying to communicate a particular point. My only point was that those things I listed cannot be justified or explained in a purely literal reading of the bible.
Thanks for the link. I always love new information.
@thirst2@xanga - @thirst2@xanga - Under what logic? I acknowledge there's slavery in the Bible, because we live in a sinful world, but nowhere does the Bible say that slavery is right. In fact it only references how to properly treat slaves and also explains when to release them. Actually, the slavery you refer to in Leviticus is much different from the slavery in America (and far less harsh). People actually sold themselves into slavery, which would hardly have been the case in the Antebellum South. Try reading the full chapter next time. Lev. 25: 38 - 46.
My argument isn't circular. The Bible is inerrant and has consistently been proven to be so. Most errors come from failure to read in context, or just blatant misquoting. In fact, for a book written over 1500 years ago by 40 different authors in 3 different languages, it is amazingly accurate.
If you've actually read the two genesis stories, you will find that they are in fact ONE story and just a rehashing of the account. There is no contradiction.
Once again, no evidence doesn't mean false. Just because they haven't officially verified it yet (minus the chariot wheels, the slave bunkers, and papyrus with Semitic names) there is still good reason to believe its true. But that's only one example, which is still very much in the works and by no means disproven.
Like I said before, I don't need to understand evolution because the Bible which I know to be true says
1 Corinthians 1:19 - 20
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
@Townsend2@xanga – A lack of admonishment implies acceptability. And I already acknowledged that the slavery in the U. S. was more cruel, hence my statement that it was "simply abused and should have been reformed, not abolished " Next time read my whole comment.
And I never said that there was no evidence but that the evidence we have thus far points in the opposite direction of it being true. Thus there is evidence.
I generally don't consider the same stories to go in different orders. In one, animals are made before Adam; in the other, the opposite happens. If such details are not important because the greater story of creation is the focus, I see no reason to disqualify evolution.
Biblical admonishment of slavery in the American Context-
1 Timothy 1:9-10
9Knowing
this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless
and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and
profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for
manslayers,
10For
whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for
menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other
thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Jenny already answered your claim to no evidence so I won't be redundant.
So you're saying you disbelieve the creation story because of artistic license? The facts of the Creation still remain the same, God created and it was so. As far as evolution goes, fully formed fossils with no apparent ancestors that make up 90% of the fossil record (trilobites) are plenty of basis on which to disqualify evolution.