Did you see the news in late August when the
American Atheists organization put up some billboards for the
Democratic National Convention?
Fox News reported on it, then
the advertising company was bombarded with "a national outpouring of 'vitriol, threats and hate speech against our staff, volunteers and Adams Outdoor Advertising,'" (according to a spokesperson for American Atheists).
Fox News' original story is
here and the post-billboard story from the Bradenton Herald is
here.
As a result of the outpouring of negative feedback, whether or not it was as ugly as the American Atheists spokesperson described (I wouldn't be surprised if it was),
the advertising company and the atheist organization decided to take the signs down.
In other words, Christians "won." Or did we?
In the original Fox News article, a pastor from Christian Life Center said, "Of course it’s not appropriate,
it’s never appropriate to insult another person, it’s never appropriate to disrespect another person."
I have nothing disparaging to say about that pastor because I realize that there's little context within which I can weigh that statement. Taking it at face value, though, the first thing I thought of when I read his statement was what Jesus said in
Matthew 5:11-12. "
Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." (NLT) Now, Jesus didn't give specifics on how to react, but
the implication is that we're not to retaliate. In
verses 38-40 He says not to resist an evil person and if something slaps us on the right cheek, we should offer the other one, too.
I believe reactionary "Christianity" messed up again. Although the deluge of responses surely wasn't made strictly by the Christian community, we can safely say that they will get "credit" for it. Here are some questions I have about this set of events:
- What does this incident tell non-believers about Christians and by extension, about Jesus?
- What would have been a better response, if any, from the Christian community?
- If I'm wrong about all this, what am I missing or misunderstanding?
By Dean Lusk
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Comments (151)
Well, they could have tried to prove it wrong, by living their lives as moral people in a free society. Or exercised their right to freedom of speech in a different way by simply saying that it wasn't true or that it didn't apply to their church, or whatever. Instead they decided to state the opinion that non-Christian ideas should be suppressed by private enterprise.
I can't wait to hear all the Chickfila shills try to defend this one.
There are far too many people who suffer from the misconception that bending over, grabbing the ankles and getting reamed is a Christian doctrine.
Christians have every right, in fact it is their duty, to drive Godless hate and bigotry from the face of the earth.Engaging in civilized activism seems to be "reactionary" only when Christians engage in it.
That's ironic because the American right to free speech and assembly has been brought to mankind by Christians.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga -
I didn't write this to kick off some kind of theological or idealistic "peeing match" (to put it delicately). What matters is whether or not the way we live is truly faithful to the Word, even if that sometimes seems counterintuitive.Could you give me a general idea of something that Jesus and the apostles taught that gives direction along the lines of what you're saying? If you're talking about making disciples by sharing the Gospel as a way of implementing your statement ("Christians have every right, in fact it is their duty, to drive Godless hate and bigotry from the face of the earth.") that's about the only way I could possibly call that idea "Christian."
American history is not on par with Scripture as a means of knowing or conforming to Jesus Christ. I love my country, but I can't anchor my love for the Lord in a justifiable war over taxation without representation.
I think it was right for Christians to protest, though some may have gone overboard. We do have free speech here in this country, though I think it is abused.
Peace
Mark
@NeverSubmit@xanga -
That's along the lines of what I was getting at. But I have no issues with anyone calling Adams and saying, "I'm disappointed with your choice to accept that advertisement." That's fine. But why is it that Christians seem to be known for their vitriol rather than grace or gentleness? Having grown up in a "church" environment, I believe that's not media spin; it's unfortunately terribly accurate.@deanlusk - You called people like me "reactionary" for objecting to the work of bigot barbarians. That's YOUR word, not mine.
We all have to deal with our own bias.
But when you mix bias with self-righteous sanctimony, demonizing people who think differently than you do becomes the preferred moral choice.
And when you get called on it you redefine the opposing view again as one side of a "pissing match" (YOUR phrase, again) and continue on with the wordy, self-righteous sanctimony.
It's really hard to get through to people like that because they have united themselves with the Godless barbarians.
People standing in the road with signs of dead babies really get me going, and I consider myself a Christian. Bombarding places and people with such tactics is hardly going to bring them to Christ. So that leaves the question, "What are they trying to achieve?" I don't blame atheists for their thinking because of the legalism, the reactionary hate, the misinterpretation of scripture that makes so many shrink. Why aren't these people putting the 60 some scriptures on their signs that assures everyone of a heavenly experience? Where is the true love, the 2nd commandment? Why do they think they've got the only ticket in town to the stadium? We have an ecumenical service here, in my town, just before Thanksgiving each year. The only ones who refuse to come are the evangelicals, the fundamentalists. But we have every reformed denomination, Buddhists, Atheists, Wickens, Mormons, you name it, and it is to bring a feeling of solidarity and community while working one with another. A marvelous choir, small sermons that are rotated amongst the groups, and food in the basement for schmoozing. Did I mention it's in a Catholic church, and I've learned the meaning of Christian because of this very activity.
Christians lost the real tussle, because they show the world that organized religion is still intolerant of oppoistion and woe betides civilised man if they manage any return to power.
@Lovegrove@xanga - Christianity is responsible for Western Civilization and the scientific revolution.
Christian civilization and the resulting modern science are what catapulted the West so far ahead of every other known civilization.It is atheism that has proven itself so destructive to civil society and science. More mass murder and mayhem has been committed by atheists than by any other group.
Christians lose face here. In the US, the fastest growing religious identification is "No Religion" (source, plus a cool graphical interface for visualizing the data). Threatening the non-religious with violence is especially ironic considering that the billboard in question accuses Christians of promoting hate. This type of behavior doesn't do much to improve the reputation of Christians among the non-religious, or even among those who are questioning their faith.
A better response would've been no response at all. Or, like @deanlusk suggested, a simple "I don't like the message you're promoting with that billboard," would've been fine, too. Threats not only damage the Christian image, but they're also illegal; the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to threats of violence.
I'm not surprised that atheists are being subjected to Christian hate and vitriol. As a gay man, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of hate myself. However, there's definitely a silver lining: the 8% of the population whose religious affiliation was "None" in 1990 grew to 15% in 2008, and about a fourth of these people are atheists (source). Christians' hateful behavior is one of the major reasons why atheism is rapidly becoming popular in the US.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - You sound Just Exactly like a radical Islamic - all you have to do is substitute Allah and Islam for God and Christianity. It is every persons duty to drive radical religious nut jobs from the earth before they KILL more people.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - No actually the Devout Catholic Hitler is responsible for the greatest loss of life in the last 100 or more years. In addition there is no such thing as an "atheist" government. Arithmetic was developed by Arabs and it is the basis for all of science. You REALLY need to go back to a modern secular grade school for a basic education.
@Captric@xanga - The aim of philosophy is to discover the truth. According to the Christian worldview there exist a true right and wrong. That true right and wrong comes from God.
Atheism is a scourge because having denied the existence of God, truth is whatever anyone wants it to be.
That's why you can equate Islam with Christianity.
Your great error is thinking that atheism is superior when according to your own philosophy it is just another of an infinite number of beliefs.
So in your comment we see you applying one standard to me and another standard to yourself. That is the definition of hypocrisy. You define hypocrisy.
As a self-defined hypocrite you have no standing upon which to criticize others.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - you are the perfect example of why America is on a fast march towards becoming a third world country. This country is great because of science and it's application called technology. Scientific thinking is the EXACT opposite of religious beliefs and dogma.
@Captric@xanga - Science is the result of the Christian worldview. Barbarism, mass murder and mass misery are the results of atheism.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - Ha - nice try but Atheism is the OPPOSITE of a belief. It is the very definition of NON BELIEF. The aim of science NOT philosophy is to discover the truth. You do not have a clue what you are talking about! Have you ever actually HAD a course in philosophy? You are NOT going to be allowed to make up your own definitions here!! Get a life you nicotine addicted illiterate and stop listening to Rush Limbaugh for your facts.
@Captric@xanga - If we apply logic putting NOT before belief does not turn it into nothing. It simply makes it a negative.
Another way of expressing NOT belief, is disbelief or unbelief.
No matter how you slice it, you still believe. You just believe a negative.
@Captric@xanga - Your fellow atheists would beat you with a wet noodle for breaking Godwin's Law: In any discussion of religion or politics some knucklehead will eventually bring up Adolf Hitler.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - What exactly is a "christian world view". Is is a view that every person who does not believe in your mythological and fraudulent religion should be driven from the face of the earth?
Where do you get this idea that a non belief in magic and mythology are responsible for "Barbarism, mass murder and mass misery"? In point of fact just the opposite is true - it was no atheist or agnostics who flew airplanes in to the world trade center - it was not atheists or agnostics who set off Atomic weapons on innocent women and children in Japan - it was not atheists and agnostics who set off a Sarin gas bomb in a Japanese subway - it was not atheists or agnostics who started the German antagonism leading to the so called WW2 - it was not agnostics who started the brutality of hundreds of years of the Crusades - it was not atheists or agnostics who burned witches in New England or gave small pox infested blankets to native Americans or turned in Jewish families to the Nazis during WW2. The list is long and notorious of religious nuts persecuting and killing and marginalizing those who do not believe in their imaginary friends.@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - Adolph Hitler was a good Catholic carrying out the wishes of the church and the hatred for other religions that he learned as an altar boy at a young age. There was an "official" church that was an icon of the nazi movement. He has pictures of himself hugging high level Christian authorities. I am PROUD to bring up Hitler as a perfect example of a Christian in modern times.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - I guess you flunked basic logic as well --- who are you trying to fool boy? I have HAD a philosophy class at the University of Missouri. My professors wife was friends with MY wife - he was a pretty smart guy ----- you are not.
@Captric@xanga - You bothered to read my comments you would understand that I am explaining the Christian worldview.
Science would not be possible without the Christian worldview because science seeks the absolute truth about physical reality.Atheism cannot include science because truth is relative in atheism. That means truth can be whatever you want it to be.
Such a worldview makes science impossible.
@Captric@xanga - I built electronic circuits using the Boolean logic that I just described to you.
Your misunderstanding of logic would mean that when I add a NOT gate to my circuit it would quit working.
Think of belief as the results of the thinking that runs through your mind. Adding NOT logic doesn't make your thinking go away.
In just means that you possess disbelief instead of belief.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - as usual you are wrong - boolean logic is based arithmetic that was invented by arabs who were CLEARLY not christians. Boolean logic deals with 1 and 0. so Zero still exists and -1 still exists. So you can clearly form an equation starting with a zero or a negative number. This has NO relation to the truth. If you actually HAD any logic in your pea brain you could figure out that humans do NOT arise from the dead - heal the blind with spittle - walk on water - flood the world - or build the greatest boat ever known to man and out of wood and by hand to boot! These are mathematical impossibilities. And oh ya --- I am still waiting for that piece of wood from the Arc. That should be the easiest way any so called christian could prove all of what we know about biology - zoology - geology - genetics and many other disiplines of science.
Here is some boolean logic that IS correct. If one set of a collection of subsets is wrong then the whole set is wrong. That is what the many variations of the bible represent - false subsets of a set of christian beliefs that are mathematically incorrect and the only reason ANYONE believes it is because of the misguided lies of people like you.@Captric@xanga - I have a degree in electrical engineering and actually used Boolean logic as an aerospace engineer. That means what I did was real and that what I am explaining to you is correct.
You trying to correct a professional engineer is like a toddling T-baller trying to correct Babe Ruth's hitting technique.
But all is not lost. Just give up atheism so your brain can start working again.