Wednesday, 01 August 2012
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Would You Still Love God If You Knew There Was No Afterlife?
By Eowyn
My neighbors, Brandon and Viv, are two of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet. They have raised three wonderful children together and also are foster parents to at-risk children. Brandon is a dentist and has gone on mission trips to Mexico ten times to help people with their oral health. One time he gave me and my sister about two hundred dollars worth of teeth cleanings free of charge because our parents were out of work. He never asked to be paid back -- though my mother insisted on it once she got a job again. You can always be sure of seeing Brandon and Viv in church every Sunday. They are those sorts of people.
Last year Brandon was in a bad car accident. The other guy only got a broken wrist but Brandon suffered massive internal injuries. He didn't have a pulse when the EMTs arrived on the scene so they had to shock him back into sinus rhythm. They got Brandon's heart working again but he still didn't regain consciousness. Once Brandon arrived at the hospital he was hooked up to a respirator and monitored. He had minimal brain activity but his gag reflex and pain responsiveness were still present so the doctors said "We're going to wait and see."
Everybody at our church was praying hard for weeks. There was absolutely no response for the longest time, and then finally one day the doctors noticed a slight uptick in Brandon's brain activity. It stayed like that for a few more days and finally one day, while Viv was praying by his bedside, Brandon opened his eyes. It was amazing!
Unfortunately Brandon could only communicate with his eyes for several months. He blinked once for "yes" and twice for "no," but it was still clear that Brandon was Brandon. His mind was completely there. He was even able to crack jokes. A little while later, when Brandon could move his index finger a bit, Viv brought in an iPad to help him type. One time, when she asked him if he was in pain, Brandon typed "Y-E-S." When Viv asked if he needed a painkiller, Brandon typed "N-O, I N-E-E-D B-E-E-R." Viv laughed. She loves to tell that story.
Brandon's had a lot of physical therapy. Slowly he started to move his arms and legs a bit though it was really tough going. Now Brandon can walk with support and a walker. He can sort of talk but only Viv understands him. When he talks to anyone else, he prefers to use his iPad.
Last week I went to visit Brandon. We talked a bit and he seemed like his usual cheerful self. I still had a few questions though.
"Do you remember what it was like when you had no heart rate? When you were in a coma with minimal brain activity? Did you see heaven?"
Brandon shrugged. "No, I have no memory of that at all.""Really? Nothing? No floating up or anything?"
"No, it was like I was out of the picture. Finished. Done. That's all."
He must have seen my expression because he started typing on his iPad again. "Don't be sad. God gave me a great gift with my accident. He told me that life was a precious gift and I shouldn't take another moment for granted. I am so much happier now to be alive than I ever was before... and I was pretty happy before too! Now, every time I see Viv's face or the face of my children or the sunlight coming through the curtains in the morning, I thank God for giving me this second chance."
It was a sweet sentiment but it still made me feel very frightened and sad. No heaven? No eternal life? Was God a lier? John 3:16: For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
So that was a lie? There really was no heaven or afterlife?
"You really didn't see anything after your heart stopped?" I asked Brandon.
Brandon smiled. "No, nothing...."
I was pleasant for the rest of the visit but I still think Brandon sensed my unhappiness. "Trust in God," he typed on his iPad before I left. "God has a plan for us all. You have so much life ahead of you. Be joyful. It is what God wishes of you."
I guess I should be joyful, but I just feel upset and depressed and very, very frightened. Is there really nothing at the end? Brandon should know… he's been closer to death than anyone else really. My cousin died of breast cancer last year. Is she not in heaven now? Is she just "finished?" What about my friend's baby who died of bacterial meningitis? Is her little boy now just "finished" too? Not in heaven, just rotting in the ground?
I'm so unhappy and upset. I haven't eaten much or talked to anybody since I saw Brandon. I don't even want to go to church anymore. Does anybody here have any advice?
How do you respond to this story? Do you believe in an afterlife?
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Comments (38)
Maybe he wasn't all the way dead. If he was would he really have come back?
Yeahh, because he didn't see heaven (or even if he did purport to see some sort of heaven) doesn't provide a lot to go on.
To your question, you should look through the O.T. Belief in life after death was not unanimous among the Jews. One group openly questioned the possibility. Ecclesiastes expressed agnosticism toward heaven and hell: "Who knows whether the human spirit goes upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth?" The Jews didn't want to escape earth for God's heaven. They wanted God to bring his heaven down to earth: Lift up your heads, you gates; lift them up, you ancient doors, that the King of glory may come in." Many people loved and feared God for his salvation in the here and now.
And I do too
He didn't die, so he didn't go to Heaven. I don't see what the problem is.
Perhaps there are other questions you should be asking yourself.
It seems to me there are two things going on:
1. Brandon's time on earth wasn't actually finished. God obviously has more in store for him here before finally taking him Home.
2. During that "in between" time, whether or not Brandon was truly (physically) dead or not, that Brandon didn't see Heaven doesn't necessarily suggest there is no Heaven. It just means that during that particular time, God did not reveal it to him just yet. And perhaps that's most likely due to my first thought.
I do think you should take Brandon's encouragement to heart, though. I'm sure he has his own questions, but yet there must be so much MORE to the story than simply that he didn't see Heaven yet. By more, there's the fact that he is ALIVE! :D After all, he was pretty much dead, then barely alive for the longest time. His own faith and greater sense of appreciation for all that God has given him is strengthened, too...even though he didn't get to see Heaven.
I understand your doubts here...I can't say I wouldn't have similar thoughts. But God doesn't think like WE do. He sees the whole picture and we certainly don't. Why not ask God what this all means and what He wants you to understand? (I'm sure you've asked that anyway.)
I know someone who slipped into a coma after giving birth to a child she had conceived during an affair. She died on the emergency room floor and they brought her back. She said it was frightening and scary because demons kept trying to drag her down to hell.
I can't imagine that one person's lack of an "afterlife" experience means anything really.
"If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men."~ 1st Corinthians 15:19
If it is not for the resurrection in Christ, then we are, indeed, fools. For that is what our hope is in, that God has saved us from our sins, which cause death, and renewed us to an everlasting life in Him through the resurrection of the Spirit.
Although the lack of "remembering Heaven" in someone that has just been revived does not surprise me at all, I believe it is a good thing whenever we are shaken to the point that we have to question these things. Can you find the witness of God through the scriptures AND the Holy Spirit who dwells in you, if indeed you are born of Him?
I believe you should ask for that witness from God, spoken of in Romans 8. Read through Romans 8 and 1st Corinthians 15- do some serious digging in your Scriptures and some real praying to find your answers. DON'T come to a website like Revelife where anyone and their monkey can give you answers, lol.
I am reminded of the story of the disciple Thomas, who would not believe the Lord was resurrected. He declared that "unless I see for myself and place my fingers in His wounds, I will not believe!". And when Jesus did appear to him, He chastized him a bit.."Oh Ye of little faith! Touch my wounds, place your hand in my side, and believe!" When Thomas believed, He said "How sad that you needed proof. And how blessed are those who needed no proof!" (Paraphrased) Do I know for absolutely certain that there is indeed a Heaven? No, none of us do. We all base our faith, our belief on the story of the Bible and belief in Jesus, and His death and resurrection. None of us really know for sure. But I realize that believing in something larger than myself gives me hope, helps me to live a good life, helps me to be kinder to others and lighten their load. And if, when my day is done, there is nothingness, then so be it. But what if Heaven is real, and I missed it? That would mean eternal sorrow. No thanks, think I'll go for it...
Just because we do not remember does not mean it did not happen. He obviously has a strong relationship with our father based on his earthly actions. "I" feel he has already experienced the "assent" into heavenly thought.
If the Bible says take faith in the small things and he still feels like he does......................
May good thoughts fill your heart and mind and the hearts and minds of all you come into contact with.
You need to base your beliefs on the Bible, not on people's varied unconscious experiences when out of their wits and half dead.
I don't think you should let one person's experience or even lack of experience determine your entire set of faith beliefs. You either believe what God said or you don't. Your friend's lack of encounter does not need to negate it. Ask God to give you an encounter with him so that you will be certain his words are true. You don't have to have a near death experience to be certain. He can speak to you in every day life. Just ask him for some kind of experience that tells you he is real. Then you won't have trouble believing what he said about eternity.
Strongly recommend reading 'Heaven is for real' by Todd Burpo (with Lynn Vincent)...
Think that'll keep you content until the Rapture !
(which won't be long now...& HE'll send for us...for us all)
& I know for sure our Creator is in & has a Heaven, for us all !
I'd rather be "finished". Then again, I'm 1000000% atheist who sees heaven as a comforting story for those who are scared
I don't know, I don't think living your life for the afterlife is the way to go. You shouldn't have faith in God because you fear you are going to Hell, but because it brings your heart peace knowing someone is out there looking upon you, because it leads you to do good things and help others. What you do and believe while your alive matters because it will effect people long after you are dead. This might sound super corny, but regardless of what is in store after death (heaven, reincarnation, nothing at all), people live on through others memories of them.
I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned this verse:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment..." (Hebrews 9:27) I encourage the reading of that entire chapter, but the bullet point here is this: He wasn't dead.This post is titled "Would you still love God if you knew there was no afterlife?" That may have been put there by Revelife and not the OP, but I'll answer that question anyhow. Yes. My reasons are very well stated by @Digital_Angel21@xanga. I love God because He is holy and good. I love God because He loves me. Do bad things happen? Sure. We're in a fallen world, but that does not change the nature of God, and it is His nature (not ours) that I love.
Jesus Christ is the authority on heaven, not Brandon. Maybe it would be beneficial to learn about heaven from an authoritative source.
Being clinically dead isn't the same as being dead. You can't come back once you're dead, and that's because you can't be in two places at the same time. One of my biggest reasons for believing in God is that nothing would make sense without Him. I can't reconcile ceasing to exist after death with God's existence at all. God doesn't waste time, and He doesn't waste life. If He created it, I think it's got to be a lot hardier than that. Our lives on earth may be short and may be "as vapor" in the whole expanse of eternity, but that doesn't mean we just disappear as though we never were when it's over. What a profound waste of time- waste of everything!- that would be. And it's not in God's nature to lie. He just can't and won't do it. Lies are of Satan; God will only speak the truth, and while He may not reveal everything to you at once, He will never, ever lie to you. If He did He wouldn't be God.
I hope that you find peace and that your heart can find the truth you're seeking. Everybody who believes is pulled up short by something like this at some point (for some of us, at several points..) but God allows it because He wants you to discover something for yourself. Keep going, you'll find it, and know that God can handle all of your questions, fears, and doubts.
I had a brain surgery. I remember before the nurse woke me up, feeling so in love and happy. There was a man walking beside me by the beach. I couldn't see his face. But all I knew is that He was making me feel like a queen, the important person that was worth the world to Him.
Then suddenly we stopped walking. He turned to me and said, "I have to go now. But you need to stay, it isn't your time yet."Then I woke up.All I know is that, it was awesome. I don't think I ever died, cuz otherwise they probably would have told me. But all I know is that, I woke up so happy and floating. I felt loved. I had a date with Jesus! Sadly, though, it was short and it was not time yet. I have had moments of wondering if maybe there's a possibility there's no heaven, no God. However, I won't allow myself believe that there is no God. God do exist! I have had plenty of proof He is real...... and I am sure one day, you will finally see that, too. If you will open your heart and allow Him show the way.And yet somehow I love the Creator all the same.
And my argument about Christianity (if that is where this is leading) regarding immortality and afterlife.
I - Don't - Want - It.
I recommend Adrenaline Unknown's entry.
Most people who die and are brought back do not have the sensational kind of experience you were expecting. Just remember that your faith in God exists and is strengthened, for the most part, by non-miraculous experiences. You feel His love for you when you pray and read the scriptures and serve others. You see his hand guiding you more in little ways than in the big ways. You are given understanding and wisdom that are beyond your own abilities. And from time to time you experience the light of truth as the Holy Spirit witnesses to your spirit. There is an afterlife and a loving Heavenly Father has a plan for each of us. Both your own spirit and your heart and mind tell you this as you listen. God bless you.
I'm not Christian, so take this for whatever you want, but I always believed from early on that heaven and hell are unknowns. THe point of life is to perfect this world, to make this world a better place to live.
Just because your friend doesn't remember something, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Maybe he was meant to forget anything that happened while he was temporarily deceased and out of commission. You said that he was given a gift by it. That's not saying that there is no Heaven or afterlife. You can't judge Brandon's path and experience as your own or everyone else's. You just need to rejuvinate your faith. Don't let semantics block your path toward happiness.
It is possible that he did experience Heaven, but wasn't one of the few meant to spread the word of such. There is a book my mother brought home one day, unfortunately I can't remember the title. The author wrote of his personal experience of dying, and being brought back to life. During that period of time between dying and being brought back, he actually "consciously" experienced a Heavenly experience. It is really empowering. I would recommend it ... if I remembered the title. Lol.
Just don't give up on your faith just because ONE person didn't experience it. After all, isn't that what faith is about?
5for the living they know that they will fie, but the dead know nothing, they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. 6 their love their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished 10 whatever your hands find to do, do it with all your might for in the grave, where you are going their is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
psalms 146: 4
when their spirit departs, they return to the ground and
their plans come to nothing
in john 11:11 jesuse speaks of lazarus as sleeping
our friend lazarus has fallen asleep but i am going there to wake him up.
in acts 7:60
then he fell on his knees and cried out "lord do not hold this against them" when he said this he fell asleep.
1 chrointhians 15:6
after than he appeared to more than 500 of the borthers at the same time most of who were living and though some had fallen asleep.
the dead are conscious of nothing. they are sleeping until jesus comes.
john 5:28
do not be amazed at this for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good will rise to live and who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
read revelations 20: 11-15
keep the faith brother. dont stop believing.