Friday, 18 May 2012
-
"He Allows Too Much Bad": God and His Plan
I just saw a blog over at Revelife. The post asks, "Do you believe God is hands-off or a puppeteer?" I answered, "Neither. I have seen Him miraculously intervene too many times to think He is "Hands off". And I have seen Him not too many times to think He is "a puppeteer". I don't see why such a complex question should have only two possible answers either. This is how I feel about it." And then I linked them here. This is something I have heard and thought about deeply. I think it comes back to love. (It is my strong opinion that a lot of people today have no idea what real love is or is all about, but to avoid getting diverted to that topic, let me just say real love always wants what is best for it's object, and is never forced.) So, if God loves us, He could not create us as little robots who have no conception of doing anything other than His Will. Without the freedom to choose for ourselves, it would be the same as brainwashing, or locking us in a cage. I can't conceive of how that would be honest or loving. It certainly wouldn't be genuine. And all that is completely against the nature of God.
Second, you have the question of suffering. There is no other way for us to have free will though, without having the suffering of the innocent. Some will suffer at the hands of those who choose to use their free will to that end. And some will suffer due to the imperfection that came along with the fall from grace. I would like to point out here, that suffering usually makes people stronger. People who grow up with no suffering, and given everything they want right when they want it seem to end up the most troubled and unhappy adults. So you will have a hard time convincing me that God needs to disallow the suffering that goes on because then we all would be spoiled little brats with no appreciation. Also, Jesus suffered plenty Himself when He that never knew what the filth of sin felt like, took on the sins of anyone who would ever be born from Adam and Eve to the future of people who have yet to be born - all at once. And that after suffering the physical pain of the whipping post and cross. Everyone has their own cross to bear.
Thirdly, God does know every single possible scenario and outcome. And I most certainly do believe He has a plan for all of us, only we have to surrender to Him to see it happen. He gave us free will, so the power to ruin those plans is in our hands, if we reject Him and His ways. The good news is, God really can turn your mourning into dancing, if you just let Him. But, I digress. There are times when, because He can see every scenario possible, He does choose to intervene and miraculously change things.
I have never believed that when He chooses not to though, that it is due to a lack of faith on anyone's part. Sometimes Dad just says "No." And, there is no doubt He has His reasons. But, that does not mean that it was originally "His Will" for that suffering to happen. Remember, it was "His Will" for us to remain perfect in the Garden of Eden. But where we are now, there are so many factors to be taken in about what would happen if He intervened. If you've ever watched It's A Wonderful Life, you can get an idea of how many lives we touch and influance, and the ripple affect that has on other lives. And, not being able to see every possible scenario for the decades to come, we really aren't in a position to ever say God was wrong to choose not to intervene. Realizing this makes the element of faith not quite so hard for me.
Also, sometimes what we might think would be a good thing turns out to be a very bad thing, sometimes even the worse thing we could think of. Sometimes I think of it like this, for God, not intervening may have been making a choice of the lesser of two evils. Since I can't see every possible scenario, I don't know how much it would change things. But, I can see many other instances to tell His nature, and by what I can see, I know it is not in His nature to cause suffering to the innocent. By this I can trust that when He does not intervene, it must be part of His plan.
Do you think God has a unique and specific plan for you? Do you think he knows what is going to happen next? Do you think he intervenes sometimes and not other times? How do you define what God's plan for your life is?
Related Posts
Post a Comment
- Back to revelife's Revelife Site!
- Note: your comment will appear in revelife's local time zone: GMT -05:00 (Eastern Standard - US, Canada)
About the Author
-
- From: mtngirlsouth@xanga
- Name: Samantha
- About Me: Learning, growing, settling in my beliefs. Love to learn new things. Becoming less and less concerned with what others think of me. My faith is the Cornerstone of my beliefs, and I will not sway on that.
-
True Premium
Stats: This Week All Time Posts: 0 7 Views: 0 10474 Comments: 0 361 View all posts by mtngirlsouth@xanga
Comments (103)
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga -
"Parents suffer to raise their children."
Children don't force their parents to give birth them. and if parenthood is that horrible, you shouldn't have chosen to become a parent.
"And most workers the world over suffer in order to earn their living."
where does love factor into this? do you think employers love their employees?
@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - God is intelligent, free and creative. Man was created in God's image so we are intelligent, free and creative.
Such beings make plans.
So God has plans.
And just as our plans concern our affairs, God's plans concern Creation which is his affair. When human beings make our plans in concert with God's plans we become part of his plans.
That is how the human being pursues happiness to the fullest extent possible.
@Lynn Males@facebook - Shit happens. If you hadn't tried to save the puppy it would have died quickly in infancy instead of suffering because of actions taken by you.
Part of being a man is accepting responsibility for your own actions.
Shaking your fist at God because your puppy died is a ticket to the rubber room.
@valeriebeth04@xanga - Suffering is an inherent part of liberty. But since Jesus was born into the world and touched suffering on the deepest level possible, all our suffering becomes a blessing if we let it.
@ColdSkivvies@xanga - you know what they say about assuming... Honestly, I know there are things I don't understand about God and his ways, and I know there are things about him that I have wrong. but I'm okay with admitting that because I believe in a God that is God, bigger than me and more complex than I can understand. Actually I think the only thing I really know about God is that I can't know everything about him (I realize that is a seemingly contradiction, but I guess that is why faith and God are a mystery and beyond reason). I think that is a view of God pretty clearly supported by scripture.
Isaiah 55: 8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts."
Isaiah 40:13,14 & 28 "Who has understood the mind of the Lord, or instructed him as his counselor? Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? .... The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired and weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."
Romans 11:33-34 "Oh, the depths of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgements, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has every been his counselor?"
@Lynn Males@facebook - Human beings have the capacity to learn. It is through learning that we develop all the finer aspects of human nature.
That's why the Catholic Church (and many other Christian churches) puts high value on education.It is through the prodigious efforts of the Catholic Church to educate its priests during the 1000 years of the Middle Ages that led to the development of the university and of science.
The development of the university and of science led to the Renaissance which was the beginning of the flowering of Western Civilization.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - I didn't say that parenthood was horrible. I said that parents suffer on behalf of their children.
That is a simple fact.
Even self employed people suffer as a result of their work.
Again, another simple fact.
@musterion99@xanga - I think we've been talking around in circles, because I still don't understand the difference between being evil but not 100% evil; those two things in my opinion are synonymous. But I guess I have a very black and white view of it. In my opinion, while outside of Christ I may be able to do 'good' acts, I don't think that any amount of good or bad acts make me less or more good.
As far as whether there are levels of sin with different judgements... I think we interpret those scriptures very differently, because you assertion didn't seem plain to me; I could see that Jesus was saying their will be a judgement, but not of varying degrees. The only one I could concede possibly supports greater or less judgement is the Matthew 11, but I still wonder if that is just referring to 'blasphemy the Holy Spirit" which is refusing Christ. Interestingly, the NIV and ESV doesn't even have Matthew 23:14; NASB has it, but with a footnote that it wasn't in earlier translations.
BUT I guess the most important thing is, God will not be asking either of our opinion at the judgement seat, and that is a good thing.
@Lynn Males@facebook - It certainly wasn't God who saved that poor puppy just so it could die an even more horrible death.
My point is that, "No good deed goes unpunished" is an axiom in charitable giving.
And I think that's why for the last 100 years or so people in the Western world have been more than happy to outsource their Christian duty of charity to the government.
Unfortunately, doing that is leading to societal and economic collapse. There just is no way to avoid suffering.
@Lynn Males@facebook - Quit being so angry and try using the mind that God gave you to think just a little bit.
The Bible says that foolishness results from anger.
And you proving the Bible right isn't helping your case any.
Thinking that you should be rewarded for doing good and that it's God's fault if good deeds don't pan out, is a recipe for a life of anger and resentment.
@Lynn Males@facebook - Think of me as your caring therapist who is guiding you into healthy grieving.
Whether it's "Shit happens," or it's, "God's Plan," couldn't be more irrelevant.
You are the one who needs to give meaning to the events in your life. And blaming God or anyone else for that matter can lead to chronic mental illness.
@Lynn Males@facebook - Your anger is your own. You need to own it. And to do that you need to stop blaming others.
And you mustn't get angry at others because they don't join you on the pity pot.
If you want to pay due respect to the feeling you have for your little puppy you've got to get off the pity pot and just let the pain of your loss work it's way through mind, body and spirit.
The only remedy for this type of intense suffering is time and peace.
@AmyDoo@xanga - There are differing degrees of evil, which I thought I plainly pointed out throughout my comments. I thought all the verses I gave were very clear. We'll just have to disagree but agree on our need for Jesus.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - except that neither suffering party is forced to suffer by whomever they suffer for on their behalf. so your points prove nothing.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Suffering is part of life no matter what we do. That is my point.
And this was the statement that I was addressing:
The only contexts of making someone suffer because you love them are BDSM, abusive relationships, and religion.My comments provided examples that proved that statement to be false. Family life, work life, in fact all of human life is a context for suffering.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - i think you missed a key part in the statement:
"making someone suffer"
it's not the issue of suffering that we think is horrible. it's whether an omnipotent being who supposedly loves us is bringing suffering to us on purpose. family life is a choice, as is your work life. but if God is omnipotent, you don't have a choice in whether you suffer for Him.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - You are a beacon of Jesus' love for your fellow man. Thank you for inspiring me today.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - There is nothing in Christian doctrine that requires people to suffer. Christianity recognizes suffering as integral to all life on Earth.
Christianity is the only world religion that teaches a healthy, natural and effective way of dealing with suffering.
@mtngirlsouth@xanga - great answer, and totally biblical.
Just for the record: I don't believe in abortion. I believe people should choose for themselves what they put their own body through. I don't respond to Loborn/Curtis/whateverthehell, but I don't believe in abortion. There is a delicate balance between a woman's right to her own body and the fact that an abortion kills an unborn child. Neither way is right, IMO. There is no way to rectify the basic right to control one's own body and the basic right to life. It's like oil and vinegar, yet you need both for a salad.
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - Honestly, I know a lot of people who don't actually sin. I don't believe we all do. I know that I rarely sin. My real thoughts, not my jokes lol, really aren't sinful at all. I just don't think that way, well except when I am driving! So, my sins are only in my head. (har har). But seriously, I know a lot of people who don't sin, some aren't even Christians. Sure we all make mistakes and errors in judgment, but not all of that is sinning.
@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - I'm not talking about honest mistakes, or even lack of foresight. I'm talking about any selfish action/ambition.
If you don't sin, and your friends don't sin, then you are the only humans Christ didn't die for; and thus, he didn't need to come and die for you at all. You don't need his forgiveness. You cannot be saved, because, as you say, there is nothing to be saved from, and nothing to be forgiven for.
"All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
"If we say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:10
But here is the hope for sinners (which we all are):
"God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whosever will believe in him will not perish, but will have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved (from their sins)." John 3:16-17
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - The whole concept of we are all sinners is just some feel good crap. I know people who don't go around sinning. They don't break any ten commandments or the two commandments from Jesus. I didn't say that I never sin, I rarely sin and the only sinning I do is accidental or in my thoughts. Heck, I don't even tell lies or anything fun like that.
@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - But, it's not feel good to realize that we are all sinners.
And even your friends--even very kind people, have selfish ambitions and have acted selfishly before. If you asked them, I imagine they would say so.
Maybe where the misunderstanding between us lies, is that there are variances of evil. We are not all so deep in selfishness and betrayal of others as say..Hitler. But even Mother Teresa, even the best people in the world, if they are honest, will say they have the tendency to feel and act selfishly, to whatever degree.
You realize, though, by saying all those verses in the Bible are "crap"--that the God's salvation through Christ is crap. Christ thought it was so vital, because all men have and would have sinned, that he laid down his life...
He surely did not consider it "crap". He considered it something worth suffering for, even though he did not deserve it, but we did. Humanity did. He wanted us to be made new, to know him.
And that is crap, you say?
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - It makes people feel better about themselves when people say that everybody sins. I reckon the real question is what is a sin? If we're talking simply the Ten Commandments and the two Jesus gave them I never, ever sin.
I don't believe watching out for yourself and your own interests is always selfish. Sometimes it is necessary and one isn't selfish if they don't give a bum spare change when they literally have no money, but enough to feed themselves and their children.
I'm not saying anything Jesus said was crap. Although, I do indeed need to go back and decide what Jesus himself said and what others have said about sin.