If I was on the fence about why there was a reason to come back and start blogging my usual tirades against religion, I was given the final push over the edge. Earlier this week, I had a friend attempt suicide due to untreated depression issues. It was tremendously sad, but it and the nearly 50 stitches accompanying it were a wake up call she dearly needed. But what happened yesterday is on a whole extra level of just fucking wrong.
A friend from high school, we'll just call him D, realized that after years of trying his best to deny who, at his very core, he truly was, it was time to accept reality and help the people near and dear to him to accept the same. The problem is, everyone near and dear to D was strongly tied to a particularly conservative group within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka the Mormons. When D told them that he is, and always has been, attracted to other men, his his friends ostracized him. His church shunned him. His family disowned him. And when D realized that there was nobody in his life who cared more about his well-being than in the immutable writings of books written hundreds or thousands of years ago, D tried to kill himself.
I've lost friends to suicide. Far too many. For a middle class white boy from the suburbs of Minnesota, I've lost far too many people to their poor choices, be it drugs, violence, drunk driving, abusive boyfriends or self-destruction. I think suicide is an extremely selfish act. But being that I also have a history of health issues, both physical and mental, I don't judge people who make this choice. Especially not D. When I feel extremely depressed, I have a giant net of people who are there to catch me, to keep me from plummeting into that dark abyss. D didn't have that. In his time of need, every single person who he counted on to be there for him turned their back. His brother, his mother, his father, his grandparents, his friends from college, his friends from work, his pastor, his congregation -- none of them cared more for the life of a sweet, gentle man than for the words of hate passed down through their religion. In the end, a neighbor D knew only in passing saved his life as he dangled by his neck.
If it weren't for religion, the closest thing we'd have to an anti-gay movement is "it's just icky", and you can guarantee that would never get support in the polls. Only organized religion can take an entire person's quarter-century history of good deeds, kind words and well wishing and reduce it down to "he's an evil queer." And only organized religion can have the power to try to legislate this holy mandate to hate into law.
Somebody once asked me what the proper term for homosexual people is: is it gays, homos, or queers?
You know what I like to call homosexual people? People.
How do you respond? Has the Christian church hurt someone you know? Have you ever had a friend try to commit suicide? What can Christians learn from these stories?
True
Comments (78)
First of all, we don't know for sure if this story is true. There is no link to any news story or documentation verifying this tale.
Second, faith in Jesus Christ is 100% good. Therefore, no evil can come of it.
As a result, if there was an evil deed it was caused by a lack of faith.
Third, "If it weren't for religion, the closest thing we'd have to an anti-gay movement is 'it's just icky'
is merely an opinion steeped in the same type of bigotry that the author is complaining about.
Fourth,"In his time of need, every single person who he counted on to be there for him turned their back,"
is a highly dubious statement based on item three above which notes a clear hatred of religion that deprives the author of any credibility.
So it can reasonably be concluded that the author is using the tragic suicide of one of his dear friends (whether true or fabricated) to score a few cheap points against organized religion.
Cheap being the operative adjective. And evil being the desired end.
Thus is atheism.
Ok, so the comment above me is really rude.
The proper thing is to love the person regardless. You don't have to okay the behavior but you are always supposed to love the person, and by love, I don't simply mean just tolerate their existence. I mean love them like Christ would. Be willing to help them, lay down your life for them, and love them as yourself.
I'm sorry for what happened to your friend, dear. I really am. Please know that, even though I do not know his name, I will pray for him, right after I post this. I am glad he is still alive.
Although we both know what the Bible says on homosexuality, and I do not condone that behavior, I have plenty of gay friends and some gay family members. Anyone that turns their back on a gay friend/family member does not grasp the concept of what it means to be Christ-like. We are to love our neighbor as ourself, the second greatest commandment, according to our Lord Jesus.
No be honest, I am not surprised that his mormon family/friends did not treat him very well. I can defend pretty well that Mormons are not regenerated believers. They believe in a different Jesus than is presented through the Bible. Thus, it's hard for unregenerated people to exhibit Christ-like love that comes from the Holy Spirit living within, since that is only for believers.
I wish the best for your friend and for you.
@lydialynn2012@momaroo - A reasoned critique of an article that uses a suicide to slam all religious faith is not rude.
In civil society it is rude to use the tragic death of loved ones as fodder for anti-religious arguments.
Hi Curtis.
I have been hurt by people in church. I have been hurt by people outside of church.
But I have also been helped by those in the church and those outside the church.
I am so sorry your friend did not find those around him to support him. I am sorry for your loss of your friend. Nothing any of us can say will bring him back. I understand your anger and feeling hurt. LOVE is what a Christian is called to. He did not find that. Unfortunately the church is made up of humans who are still humans who make aweful mistakes and judgements, instead of love.
I deal with my own anxiety and depression issues. I attempted suicide --- over 20 years ago now---- I actually for the first time in 20 years considered it again a month ago. Currently I have a support system in place and it was the love and grace of those I know in my current church who have helped me the most deal with past abuse, past sin, past judgements of my own. The grace and love they gave me showed truly God's love above all others. I went to those same people and they helped me this time, so I did not go down that road again. Counseling, change in meds, and love of friends have helped me.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - Oh I agree with your reasoning. It just wasn't loving, and Christians are called to share the truth in love. But I just realized, maybe you're not Christian? Just seems like this person is really hurt, and he doesn't need another reason to hate Christians.
@lydialynn2012@momaroo - Telling the truth is great love. The purpose of love is not to make evil feel good about itself.
Evil needs always to be addressed with a stinging rebuke.
Such is the meeting of darkness and light.
One of the reasons I cannot take Revelife seriously is that there is no way to contact the editors of Revelife directly; if I were able to I would ask why Revelife is posting content with profanity in it?
Secondly, regarding the purpose of this post, the disconnect between the teaching that homosexuality is an unacceptable sin and how we are supposed to handle people who are falling to that sin are both two very woeful things. The Church needs to learn how to handle these situations better, remaining firm yet compassionate, however, we also have to expect that no matter how kindly we handle these situations, if we stick to the Truth that we put our faith in, the world will still hate us for it.
Finally, I want to call out a blatant lie in this post. The author said that if it weren't for religion, homosexuality would have nothing more against it than "it's icky".
Please do some research on Russia, a thoroughly atheistic society, and you'll find that homosexuality do not exist there, and, even the use of the "rainbow" is banned in Russia because of its connection to the homosexual movement.
In China, as well, homosexuality is not tolerated at all.
While I am sorry this person "D" is feeling so much pain I think it is extraordinarily shameful to place the blame on religion in some kind of sick attempt to stir up hatred towards religious adherents (which is what I'm left to assume since the post makes faulty claims against religion).
once again Curtis aka the person behind the first comment has turned a blog into an irrational pissing match. one of his favorite games to say if there's no link it didn't happen though i never see him offer links as proof. an attempted suicide will seldom (if ever) appear online via a news story, a blog maybe but i once posted a link to 3 sources to back up facts behind something i said in a comment. he then used his second favorite game...calling the sources liberal lies. now was funny because one of the sources was the Vatican website which reaffirmed something i already knew. even if you post a link he's not going to bother to look. Curtis formerly Lobornlytesthoughtpalace simply comments to create havoc and ugliness. his way of getting attention i suppose.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - Character assassination and calumny do not address the content of this discussion.
We should be able to express our opinions without having to be subjected to madness.Ranting and raving about someone who you and a few others obviously hate with a passion is not appropriate for this forum.
This is a Christian forum not a forum for hatred of Christians or hatred of individuals.
If you wish to continue here please tell us why it is okay to blame "conservative Mormons" for someone's suicide. And to blame all people of faith for someone's death.
Such content would concern the subject matter of this post, not your personal hatreds which should only concern you and your psychiatrist.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - Regarding your concern for links. Allow me to use a phrase that atheists love to use on Christians:
Extraordinary claims demand extra ordinary proof.
A story that accuses "conservatives Mormons" of driving a person to kill himself better be sourced. Otherwise it is just cruel innuendo and the most egregious defamation.
Your obsession with Curtis the Troll's disrespect for your links in other posts is childish nonsense compared to what is going on here. This is not the place to grind your private ax. Write a "I Hate Curtis the Troll" post on your own site.
This post is intentionally divisive, inflammatory, and ruinous to all people who seek tolerance and accommodation between diametrically opposing view points, namely atheism and Christianity.
It is also a dagger aimed straight at the heart of Christianity.
And as a Christian on a Christian blog site it is totally proper for me to strenuously object to this sort of thing without being subjected to your abuse.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - You're a ******* *******. (I'd rather not say the term, since I'd rather you to actually hear me out.)
I'm just addressing evil with a "stinging rebuke" and in Christian love so that one day you might realize how you skipped over the tragic DEATH and SUICIDE and even the author's own stated DEPRESSION. But none of this seems to phase you.
There's a certain level of religious pride that allows you to trample over other people to get your point across. It's how the Pharisees handled everything. This was not a "dagger aimed at Christianity." It was exposing a RECURRING problem between two groups of people: Yes, in fact Christianity and gay people. It SHOULD feel like an accusation of religion, because Christians have not stepped up to the plate to love and even seek friendship with people who are different from us. If you don't find the details of THIS story to be believable, there are COUNTLESS others for you to choose from in the news.
His reason for writing this was to create DIALOGUE where we can actually talk about the issue instead of vilifying the writer.
Sadly, Christianity today seems to be the one place where we feel free to beat up our wounded. You did that to the author.
Just speaking truth in love.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga -
"Telling the truth is great love. The purpose of love is not to make evil feel good about itself.Evil needs always to be addressed with a stinging rebuke.
Such is the meeting of darkness and light."i was simply following your advise.
@wakeupgen@xanga - Hi, Krisko.
Beginning a comment with a statement of pure hatred for a particular individual means that your entire comment is hateful.
Hiding your hatred behind a collection of little stars is not virtuous, it is profoundly disturbing.
As a favor to humanity would it not be civil of you to restrict your hatred for both individuals and the Christian faith to your own blog site?
I was LDS for 35 years, and the stress from working and performing to perfection is enough to put you into clinical depression. Many do just fine, and for them, I say, good for you. The current attitude on gays from the Mormon church is you can be gay and be accepted by the church, you just cannot ever act out on those urges. But the old teachings hold sway, and people are people, never accepting of someone different from them. I remember the women bragging about how many children they had, knowing I only had two. And in these economic times, I was shocked when I listened to one general authority, elder Tom Perry, talk of the importance of strength in the home, in other words, mothers better be there taking the responsibility for the children's salvation. So, you can say I'm dumping on the church, or, you can say I'm informing about the church, but the bottom line is, so many gays are committing suicide in droves because their families and churches have made them feel such self hatred. When we all should be encouraging love for one another, regardless of the faith.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - unbelievable. You should read the Bible --- God will tell you how to deal with homosexuals!!
Thus Atheism!!Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God who created Adam, a man, and then made Eve, a woman. This is what God has ordained as the normal means by which we carry out his command to fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). What God has set up is what is right -- not what sinful man sets up.
However, unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: they are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:24). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, and then they go and promote it and condemn others who don't participate in their sin. So, without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternal hell.
Is it really that difficult? Try to love everyone. Everyone has weaknesses. Gay people's just happen to be obvious.
@PrisonerxOfxLove@xanga - Cool story, bro. Let me know when you read the rest of my comment. Cause honestly, I don't think you did.
CYBERBULLY BLOGGING
As the OP (and no, Curtis, I don't have any other accounts I use for posting on Xanga, that's your game), I'd like to clear up a few things:
- I don't believe all religious people are "evil" or "gay-haters." This is a story of one particular person, and the religious community that did this to him.
- While this isn't a call to arms against religion, it should be a bit of a wake-up call. How many of the Christians on this site would turn their back on a friend if he/she came out of the closet. So many of you are acting like this is a one in a million event, but I guarantee you it is not.
@dustysojourner@xanga - Somehow a curse word is more offensive than the active hate shown in some of the posts submitted here?
[Please do some research on Russia, a
thoroughly atheistic society, and you'll find that homosexuality do not
exist there, and, even the use of the "rainbow" is banned in Russia
because of its connection to the homosexual movement. ]
Actually, homosexuality was made legal when the Soviet Union came into power. Only later did Stalin re-criminalize it, which most historians agree was done to placate the Eastern Orthodox Church.
we'll just call him D, left 4 Dead, not even giving a cross, just D!
@GodlessLiberal@xanga - There are a lot of people posting on this site who do not hold the values of love and compassion that should be held- I agree with that- and there are a lot of people who mistake passion and boldness for active hatred, either way, we would both agree there are many situations that could be handled better.
However, the profanity you used on your post is a blatant slap in the face to the values and standards that are supposed to be represented in the content of this site. When you post an article that injects inappropriate words that are not suitable for this audience, and then proceed to claim that our beliefs are responsible for practically every suicide, you should expect to get a very bold response.
I have actively worked in multiple ministries and missions in order to render help and aid to all kinds of people struggling with all kinds of depression and challenges.
One of my college friends was struggling with homosexuality and was deeply hurt by the response that many of his 'christian' friends gave to him- however, we worked together and helped him learn to resist the temptations that he felt. We did not excuse or justify homosexuality.
So, that's why this post is so offensive to many Christians, because you come in here with blatant statements that appear to come from a heart of malice.
And, btw, Russia did not placate the Orthodox Church in that act, to my knowledge, that is speculation that has not been proved. The fact of the matter is that Russia is an atheistic society (they officially disavow deistic beliefs) and they do not tolerate or lend equal human rights to homosexuals in their society. So, Orthodox Church or not, the atheistic powers at be are responsible for this one. Sorry.
I know a few people exactly in Ds position, or were. One of my friends felt like he was a he when he was born a she. His dad abused him, and tried to make him in to a "proper woman" he ended up trying to kill him self many times before he met my one of my other friends who was suicidal because of a number of consevitive christian forces in his life that would not allow him to accept him self. They formed an anti-suicide pack that will last until they are 30.
@dustysojourner@xanga - I'd love to see the kind of outrage you have for a word (which is JUST A WORD) put to use against something that actually matters... like, say, gay bashing by Christians, often ones in power (like this one).