Saturday, 14 April 2012

  • The Warning Signs of a Cult

    There is an important thing to remember when approaching this particular subject. That is the fact that far too often we can get all caught up in names. No group is ever going to call itself a “cult” and no one ever joins a “cult” for that matter. The word “cult” is just a label that carries negative and religious overtones. But the simple fact is that you should be wary of any group that displays the nine warning signs I’m about to discuss.

    Deborah Layton was a survivor of Jim Jones' cult. This was the group that was made famous by the mass suicide in which the group drank poison Kool-Aid in the 80's. In an interview following the event, she pointed out: “You join a religious group. You join a political organization. You join a self-help group. Then things change gradually and at some point you stop and ask, ‘What am I in?’”

    So I can't stress this point enough: Any group you affiliate yourself with, it doesn’t matter if that group is religious or secular in nature. It doesn’t matter if the group calls itself a church, book-club, or Atheist discussion group. Even in a political action group, if you see these warning signs then keep your radar up.

    The first warning sign is when the group discourages questions about their doctrine and philosophy. The reason we have our minds is to use them. The wise say that knowledge is power. There is real truth in that. Following the group is easy. Sometimes it’s even beneficial. But challenging what you are told and questioning your convictions is difficult, especially if you’re challenging convictions that you’ve personally identified with. That’s why it’s best to start from the beginning in asking why you believe what the group believes. If you don’t ask these basic questions then that leaves you in a vulnerable position where you will be taken advantage of, and could even be killed. Even scripture itself tells us to question authority.

    When the group is following one human leader, and s/he has unquestionable authority, it can be a dangerous thing. There is an old saying and I believe it: Absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is where many, many churches go wrong. It’s also why in scripture you never see the early Christians under the charge of one man. Jesus is described as the head of Christianity. Bishops elders and such were always described in the plural tense whenever used in scripture. Further, Paul warned us about false teachers who: “glorified themselves above the Lord.” Even Jesus himself took on the role of servant when he was with us, rather than political or military leader.

    Next warning sign is when they forbid dissent. Maybe this one goes along too closely with “discouraging questions” but the point bears repeating. And to be fair all organizations have at least a degree of this.

    Being on the inside does not make one right. Further, right and wrong are dependent on the merits of the argument, not the rank of the individual. I often think about the universities in our country when I think of this warning sign.

    It’s common to hear a secular fanatic saying “Imagine, if you will, that you are a doctor. You've spent about a decade of your life going through intensive schooling, you've dedicated much of your life to attaining this knowledge, and the credentials that come with it showing that by an impartial institution you have earned a title that indicates you are an expert on the human body. How intensely pissed would you be if you walk into your office to tell a patient that they have a brain tumor, and she looks up from her smart phone and matter-of-factly tells you that no, it's actually an imbalance of chi that's causing her headaches and dizzy spells. Now, instead of starting on the treatment that will make her better, you have to focus your energy on convincing her that not only are you right, but she is wrong.” That quote is not from a fanatic; that’s a direct quote from Krisco (a.k.a. GodlessLiberal).

    The fallacy here is the fact that you could study all you want till the end of time, and that “study” doesn’t make you right; it doesn’t make you wrong either. The doctor’s feelings may be hurt, but the decision is not about the doctor's feelings. It’s about the patient’s right to choose. Even with all the best education and technology at his disposal, and however unlikely the secular fanatic believes it is, doctors are human and don’t know everything.

    Here’s a really important one. When you’re told that you must sever contact with family and friends who are not a part of the group. This is a huge red flag. This is how a group makes an attempt at isolating its members. Isolation is a very dangerous thing. The reason they want to isolate you is exactly the same as why groups discourage questioning their doctrine.

    Ruling that if you leave the group you can never return is another huge red-flag. This is another form of isolationism and intimidation. I cannot stress enough just how dangerous these two points on isolationism are. They were at the very center of the Jamestown incident. So just like if you’re told to sever contact, should you find yourself in an organization that tells you this one, then don’t walk away: run!

    Having a lot of off-center ideas is not a problem in and of itself. But it is something to be wary of. In fact this warning sign makes me think a lot about the atheist groups that Hector and Connor are associated with. Because I doubt these two started off as the prejudiced jerks they are today. I know Connor personally and can say that’s almost certainly true in his case. They probably got trapped by assuming the non-religious nature of their groups was mutually exclusive with being a cult.

    To quote Deborah Layton again: “One of the ways we do a real disservice to our kids is that when something like Jonestown happens we tell them that they were just a bunch of nuts. This sets up our children to one day be in a situation that is a little bit weird and think, ‘Oh, it can’t happen to me.’ Their antennas won’t be up.”

    You often hear terms from adherents of these groups like fence-sitter and I.N.O.’s ([title] In Name Only) For example if you’re a Democrat you’re a D.I.N.O. or if you’re a Republican you’re a R.I.N.O. When doctrine is so extreme that even semi-adherents are called I.N.O. or referred to by the term "fence-sitter" then that’s a red-flag.

    When their way is the only acceptable way, you should be concerned. Fear and intimidation is how the single leaders mentioned above control their masses. And in reality that’s the big character difference I was talking about in the control and compassion article. Thinking back to the I.N.O. fallacy I mentioned above. This is the core issue in the two points. It leaves no room for rationality or common sense, and that leaves you vulnerable. for example my own best friend for example; says that if any so-called gay person disagrees with him on any of his core beliefs, they must be self-loathing. In his mind there is no other explanation. How can anyone even reason with that kind of irrationality?

    Likewise, Xangans who have been on this site five years or more remember that “Republican-Christian preacher” and his daughters who ran the church out of their basement like Fred Phelps’s clan. But I digress, the important question you should be asking yourself is: “Is the group’s position so weak that it can’t withstand at least a little scrutiny?” If your answer is yes, then it’s time to ask yourself why you are supporting it.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with secrecy in a group, at least not in moderation. Most groups will have this to a degree. The first Christians had to keep secret or be fed to the lions. People like Galileo and Leonardo Da’Vinci had to keep a great deal of secrecy in their progress. In Germany the resistance had to keep a huge amount of secrecy. But keep your guard up. While I raise a softer flag over the “one leader”, “forbidding descent”, and “off center ideas” points; when these three points are combined with secrecy it usually leads to the next warning sign.

    Last and certainly not least: Endorsing bad behavior is a huge red-flag. Abuse of power is a hallmark of dangerous organizations. That’s why the first Christians were so against the one human leader concept. Like I said about the isolation flags above when you find yourself in this kind of group, don’t walk away run!

    Have you ever known anyone who was involved in a cult?  What can you say about what their experience was like?  Based on the points listed above, is there someone you know who you think might now be involved in a cult?

Comments (69)

  • romic@xanga

    Jonestown was a great tragedy. Those who didn't drink the Kool-ade were shot. Jone's thugs met and shot politicians  and inspectors getting off an airplane to investigate them. It started with complaints from family of cult members. It lead to this investigation.

    During the massacre some Jones followers ran away and were shot. A few managed to escape. A few Jones followers stateside killed their children and then themselves to show solidarity. I remember seeing the newsreels from Jonestown on the evening news. It left a big lump in my stomach. One of my journalism professors years later said of the TV cameraman that he had been shot, but still kept filming because his finger was on the shutter button of his TV camera. Cameramen are often an odd lot. 

    Prior to the Jonestown murder suicide massacre Jim Jones had bilked scores of senior citizens out of their life savings.

  • wrybreadspread@xanga

    @spicycajun@xanga - Yeah. I’ve heard it.  Chilling.  Ghoulish.  Disturbing.  And a bunch of other words might apply.  It’s like that to see footage of the Nazi concentration camps.  Or to watch a documentary about serial killers and hear the graphic details.  Or even, while I was working for a hospital, to take a trauma fatality to the morgue, and to realize that a day or so before, the person was alive and well.  Sooner or later it will hit us all; the unpleasant side.  I find I need to watch, read, or listen to something that will affirm the Good Side, so to speak.  C.S. Lewis, my fave author, who wrote the Narnia stories, mentionsin his book The Screwtape Letters, the tendency to regard “…his emotion at the sight of human entrails as a revelation of Reality and his emotion at the sight of happy children or fair weather as mere sentiment…”
  • wrybreadspread@xanga

    @Captric@xanga - About Pandora; that’s strictly a matter of fashion.  In Hinduism and Shinto, polytheism is still alive and well.  And, as we discover, even so eclectic a religion as Shinto could be utilized as an instrument of policy to foster a totalitarian mindset.  Google “State Shinto”.


    The history of religion in violence can’t be denied.  The same issue faces every advocate of politics and economics.  Socialism, capitalism, and Marxism all have their baggage.  And to get the two sides of capitalism, one just can’t look at the corporations.  Ask a small businessman /-woman what it means to him / her to be their own boss rather than someone else’s wage slave, despite all the headache that owning a business entails.
    About the imaginary Son of God; the consensus of historians is that Jesus at least existed.  And countless millions have drawn good inspiration from Him, including Francis of Assisi, and the aforementioned Jefferson and Gandhi.  It does no good to ignore the positive stuff and just hold up stuff like the Inquisition and repeat over and over that’s what it’s all about; that presents an incomplete picture.
  • Captric@xanga

    Thomas Jefferson rejected everything in the Bible EXCEPT some teachings of Jesus - throwing aside all of the stories of Jesus magic. 


    Here is what he said about priests - "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
    free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their
    civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own
    purposes."-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813. AND  ":Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight
    and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on
    which they live."-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820
    Here is what he said about the Law: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
    Here is what he said about Atheists: "If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to
    Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? ...Their virtue, then, must have
    had some other foundation than the love of God."-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
    Here is what he thought of Jesus: "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme
    being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of
    the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn
    of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this
    artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of
    this most venerated reformer of human errors.-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
    And here is what I say about Jesus - Mohammad God and Allah and anyone else who is claimed by others to be attributed with magical powers: There will never be peace on this earth until God and Allah go the same way as Apollo and Zeus - nothing more than interesting beliefs of ancient religions from a time when wooden wheeled donkey carts were considered high technology and disease was certainly the result of sins! 
  • Captric@xanga

    @romic@xanga - What you have just described is the classic American TV preacher of Prosperity Gospel! I just finished listening to a Radio preacher here in Tampa Florida - he was describing what the anti Christ are and how we will recognize them ..... and ironically what he was describing was exactly what he IS! haha

  • romic@xanga

    @Captric@xanga - Do you remember the name of this preacher or Church? It, too, could be a cult. Just wondering.


  • Captric@xanga

    @romic@xanga - all of Christianity is a cult.....this is a regularly scheduled weekly program featuring different topics of discussion.....and of course begging for money.

  • romic@xanga

    @Captric@xanga - You are right to a point, IMO. I believe there is a fine line between healthy religion and an abusive coercive cult.

    The biggest way to tell the difference is that an ABUSIVE organization doesn't have to be religious; it could be an employer. It could be a union, a sports team, a fan club, a political party. It's any organization that is totally intolerant of individual thought that uses thought stopping and mind control methods.  If it is more about fundraising than they are the about their 'intended' purpose. If it is about pleasing the leader, not a higher power. If spying and tattling are part of the culture. If there is a front group and a back secret group. If fear mongering is used to keep members from leaving... 

  • Captric@xanga

    @romic@xanga - Clearly an organization does not have to be coercive in order to be a cult nor are all abusive organizations considered cults , exp US Marine Corps.

    But I do believe that Christians like to redefine the definition of cult for their own self sieving prepossessing.
  • nidan@xanga

    @dustysojourner@xanga - Actually there was plenty of dissent in first century Christianity. The most famous example of this was in the disagreement of Paul and Peter. Galatians 2: 11-14 (Also for further reading try Acts 15) There were a lot of “new” ideas that were tolerated. That’s because Christianity isn’t about ideas, but about Christ. If you read the rest of Galatians, Paul expands on this concept.


    You’re talking about off center idea from a Christian point of view. Actually from a world point of view Christianity has a LOT of off center ideas. Love turn the other cheek for example is a crazy pacifist idea. So much so that even many Christians (Especially of the Republican grade) will tell you that he meant it metaphorically.


    Also I just want to add that off center from the congregation’s point of view is certainly NOT an indicator of a false teacher if the congregation is teaching false doctrine itself. We must remember that Yeshua is supposed to be our focus, not our own understanding of scripture. (And this point goes back to what I was saying about forbidding dissent)


    Many mainstream churches have incorporated a lot of at best questionable, at worst false doctrine that IS widely acceptable these days and in our church buildings.


    -The building of huge elaborate structures and shrines


    -Preachers with suits that cost more than a year’s wages going on TV begging for even more money


    -Discriminating against homosexuality


    -Acceptance of marriage divorce and remarriage


    -Obeying this rule or that rule will get you into heaven


    I could go on.


    @Nous_Apeiron@xanga - I thought you might enjoy reading the above comment.


    @mikenpeg@xanga - And based on some of your later comments I thought you would too. But I also wanted to say that when I was in the middle of writing this post, I had met some Amish and/or Mennonites at my uncle's funeral. The experience was most pleasant. That said it seemed to me that they were quite responsive to questions about their religious views. (I asked many) and were open about discussing why they believe what they believe. A few were even interested in knowing about my religious back ground. Also it is my understanding that they don't have a single leader, but keep a council of elders in each settlement.

  • nidan@xanga

    @romic@xanga - Based on this and some of your later comments, I suspect that we know some of the same people. IRL

  • Nous_Apeiron@xanga
  • Nidan
  • mikenpeg@xanga

    @nidan@xanga - There is a panel of elders in each church, however, there is a bishop placed above this panel of elders, and this bishop gets the supreme and final say in decisions. The hiearchy and framework is very similar to that of the Catholic church, which is not surprising since the Anabaptists historically branched off from the Catholic church in countries such as Germany, Switzerland, and France.
     The Amish are generally friendlier to complete outsiders than to people who have once been among them and then left. It is often a puzzling paradox to those of us who chose to leave how easily the Amish will forgive the most horrible things done to them by complete strangers, but not forgive someone who does the same thing in their midst.
     For example, the incident of the man who shot several school-children in the PA Nickel Mines school shooting was held up as an example of Amish forgiveness and grace; and indeed it was. But when mentally disturbed Ed Gingerich murdered his wife in a PA Amish community about 40 miles from where I live, he was forever ostracized from his community and told that his sin was unforgivable. Though I suppose this isn't a trait reserved only for the Amish; it is always easier to forgive someone without a face than someone who was "one of us". However, the vastly contrasting responses to two similar situations is remarkable.
     But generally, yes, the Amish are some of the most pleasant and calm people you will ever meet. They do try, and mostly succeed, to live harmoniously with their neighbors.

  • dustysojourner@xanga

    @nidan@xanga - Indeed, there were a lot of destructive heresies attacking the early church, although I don't think Peter and Paul make a great example of dissent, but rather, an example of how such heresies can sway us if we are not on guard to defend against them.  Peter's was a case where he was under the sway of Satan's temptation and when rebuked by Paul, he repented immediately.  


    The circumcision sect (which was swaying Peter) and ideas that Christ did not come in the flesh, or did not raise, were among some of the heresies of their day (and, surprisingly, still exist in our day).  
    The new ideas you mentioned were tolerated because they were neutral ideas that did not run contrary to the Truth of Christ (as you mentioned, Christ is what everything is about).  
    I think that's why Peter warned us against "destructive heresies" in 2nd Peter.  Some ideas are neutral or irrelevant or not contrary to the gospel.  They should not be opposed.  But ideas that run counter to the gospel of Christ should not be accepted and they are, indeed, still one of the primary indicators of a false teacher.  The problem is that many people don't seem to recognize what a destructive heresy is because they're not submitting their understanding to the Word of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  
    And you're definitely right that "popular acceptance" is not an indicator of the Truth behind an idea- in fact, we're told that the majority will agree with the "off center" or "destructive heresies" in the end time.  I don't measure it that way.  I measure it based on the Word of God.  That's the only way I know we can spot according to the Word of God and the Holy Spirit (which is always in agreement with the Word of God).  
  • Alpha_May@xanga
  • bremux

    @hollowhopes@xanga - Umm, I don't know what your personal experience has been with Campus Crusade, but my parents have worked in the organization for over 20 years. They do not "take" my parents money. A portion (about 10 percent) is set aside as a necessary part of joining the company....however, that is for health insurance with the company and other such costs. I do not know about the written orders, but my parents certainly do not believe or follow any such rubbish if they ever received it. There is no individual that they follow without question, no individual that has the power to dictate any actions they please in their lives. And my parents have maintained as close a contact with their family as they possibly can when living halfway around the world in China (they chose to move there, it was not forced on them against their will). They call, email, and visit as often as they can financially afford. Really, their experience with Campus Crusade is not much different from any other job....except that they get no salary from the organization itself. Their salary does come from donations and supporters. So....I don't know what your sister has experienced, but this has not been my own experience with Campus Crusade. 

  • sowheline@xanga

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  • D'Nean Nicholas@facebook
    I'm an ex-Jehovah's Witness and I am convinced they are a cult. All of the things mentioned above are practiced by them and then some. Many will defend them and of course they deny that they are a cult, but having experienced the indoctrination, isolation, shunning and repression of outside knowledge first hand, I know what they are.
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  • Nidan
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