Wednesday, 28 March 2012
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Sin is Still Sin
Sin is still sin no matter how you look at it or how you try to justify it. We all make the wrong choices and we all sin. “As it is written; none is righteous, no not one.” (Romans 3:10)I’m so tired of hearing the lousy excuses Christians have for sinning. You cannot justify going out and getting sloppy drunk as, “That’s just what college kids do,” or, “I’m young, this is my time to party.” What if Jesus had decided that it was His time to party instead of His time to die for the world?
It really bothers me when Christians say things like they were raised in church so they’re 'okay' for now, and eventually they’ll get their life straightened out; right now they just aren’t ready to give everything up. Excuse me?! Since when does God abide by our schedule? You cannot call yourself a Christian and yet continue in sin.
Paul made that more than clear in Romans 6:1-2, “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” How dare we have the gall to believe that Jesus died so that we can sin to our hearts content, assuming we’ll live to a ripe old age -- that one day we will have the perfect opportunity to make our apologies to God, and he will just pat us on the back and tell us it doesn’t matter in the end. It does matter! “Behold now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.” (2 Corinthians 6:2b)
You can justify sin however you want. You could say that Jesus will forgive you anyways so it’s not that big of a deal. But so long as you pursue the loves of the world, there will be no room in your heart for the love of Christ. And no matter what you say to make yourself feel better about the sin, it’s still sin.
The church as a whole seems to be taking the Bible and Christianity as a joke. The best way for history to not repeat itself is by learning from it. You would think with a Bible of 66 books and 39 of them in the Old Testament, we would have plenty of opportunities to study the Israelites and learn the serious consequences of sin. And yet here we are, worshiping idols and putting the one true God on the back burner.
The pastor at my church read a verse in the course of his sermon a couple of Sunday’s past that really caused me to think. “Can a virgin forget her ornaments or a bride her attire? Yet my people have forgotten me days without number (Jer. 2:32).” How often do I have so much going on; school, work, etc. that I forget to take time out of my day for God? And then it gets to the end of the day and I’m ‘too tired.’ I should never use 'too tired' as an excuse to the Almighty God when I have plenty of time throughout the day to do other things. Those ten minutes on Facebook between classes or that half hour break at work would have been so much better spent studying God’s word, reflecting on his goodness or meeting with him in prayer.
We as a church, globally, need to realize that God is serious and that it’s time for us to get serious about God. Being a Christian is not a joke, and it’s not a get out of jail free card. It’s literally life or death. And no one said it would be roses. I will be the first to admit it is incredibly difficult to deny my fleshly desires, and sometimes I fail. But have you ever really read the crucifixion story? Really read it and let it sink in. There is no way to read, believe and understand that and not be in tears from the awesome grace, mercy and love that God has shown. How lame my excuses are compared to everything God did for me. He sacrificed His son for me; He died for me!
God is going to test us; He is going to put us through fire. He is going to refine us (Zechariah 13:9), and I want to one of those who comes through the fire as purified gold, as a bride ready to meet my Heavenly, Holy groom. Not as one who put up a bunch of excuses about how, “I was born this way, I didn’t know any better, I couldn’t help it.” Because it may be hard for you to give up your worldly lusts and desires, but nothing is harder than willingly giving up a child to die so that the world may live. Any excuse of, “It was just too hard,” will pale in comparison to the drops of blood that Jesus sweated as he prepared to give the ultimate sacrifice for us.
What are everyone else's thoughts? Am I being too harsh, or are you becoming as equally frustrated as I am with the generally lackadaisical attitude of Christians today?
How do you respond? Do you agree with the author's assertion that Christianity in general is becoming apathetic toward sin? What are some examples of Christians today who are taking sin seriously?
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- From: Krazy_monkey09@xanga
- About Me: I write because it's therapeutic. It's my way of sorting out everything running through my head at any given point in time. "I love books, by the way, way more than movies. Movies tell you what to think. A good book lets you choose a few thoughts for yourself. Movies show you the pink house. A good book tells you there's a pink house and lets you paint some of the finishing touches, maybe choose the roof style, park your own car out front. My imagination has always topped anything a movie could come up with."
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Comments (44)
I agree. Sin is a big deal and a haphazard approach to it, I believe, could keep someone out of Heaven. 1 John 3:4-9 says, "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God."
No, Christianity is not becoming apathetic toward sin. It is the Preachers my friend that are becoming apathetic toward sin and apathetic by the preaching of what Paul labeled as a foreign gospel which wasn't any gospel at all.
Once a person is saved, no demon, nor Satan, nor even a stupefied legalistic Preacher preaching a foreign gospel of death can snatch those lovely ones from God's hands of protection. You are correct, sin after salvation is bad and we are to quit sinning and follow Christ. And some Christians sin even unto death, but not damnation.
But no one stops sinning after they meet Christ, not I, neither the apostle Peter, nor the Apostle Paul did, nor you. We all go through a lifetime process of justification which is based on faith, not works. Our works are but filthy rags in God's eyes. In God's eyes all sins whether great or small are the same. All are equal.
You need to read more of the Pauline Epistles so you have abetter understanding of the gospel of pure grace.
@ksivs4477@xanga - Actually you just lied by saying no one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. You need to repent. Are you saying you no longer sin anymore?
"Because yours and my Savior Jesus spoke through the Apostle Paul in his letter to the Romans that,"
verse 9 " 'If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 for it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and you are saved. 11 As the scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Romans 10:9-11.
Romans 10:13 For, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans 10:14-15. 14 How then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one in whom they have not heard?And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" .
Romans 7:24
What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God----through Jesus christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
This law of sin Paul describes clearly in Romans 7:14-23
Is interpreted as a life long struggle with the justification and overcoming the flesh, sinning, repenting sinning repenting gradually sinning less and less and less. It is a lifetime of learning, not a one time shot when saved.
God Bless,
Brother RobertLeeRE
@ksivs4477@xanga -
Christ said if you look upon a women with lust you are committing adultry in your heart. Are you saying you never look at any women anywhere ever like this?
@ksivs4477@xanga -
When Peter denied Jesus it was sin. Are you saying that after Peter was following Jesus 3 1/2 years after doing everything Jesus said [if] he would have died before he repented he would have been eternally damned forever and ever?
I believe that God preserves a remnant at all times in history. And, although there are many, many people who have brought preachers who teach what they want to hear, and there are many who profess the name of Christ that have not departed from iniquity, there are still ministers who are being sent out to teach the gospel to His believers and help the brethren to depart from iniquity.
There is power in the gospel to overcome sin, and grace in Christ Jesus to mature His followers in the righteousness of God.
“He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” 2nd Corinthians 5:21
"Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, 'Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.'" 2nd Timothy 2:19
Christian evangelicals very prominent on t.v. and in the press like the blame homosexuals for all of societies ills. Is their sin any better than that of someone acting out sexually? When we look at the ten commandments, "Thou Shalt Not Kill", in the original languages, kill actually meant to kill someone's spirit, or heart, or desire. How many of us have killed another's feelings? So it bothers me that the Christian community, fundamentalists, cares not of harming those of other sexual orientations, when they have huge logs in their own eyes. I include myself in needing to watch what I say and do. Luke 3:6 All mankind will see God's salvation. John 12:32 When I am lifted up, I will draw all men to myself.
I think the statement "The church as a whole seems to be taking the Bible and Christianity as a joke" is a bit dramatic. Who can see or know the Church as a whole? I don't see this apathy that the OP sees in my world very much. I've seen it at times and in places but not in my here and now. It's good for us to be honest about our world and the rest of existence which is outside our own world.
in my heart, i have to be honest, that i struggle with my flesh & sin everyday, i am very, very frustrated with myself, but i do understand what you are saying, about christians making excuses for their sinful lifestyle, what IJOHN is saying is that those who are truly born of God from above cannot live in a livestyle of sin without making their life more miserable than those who have never been born again due to the conviction of the holy spirit. it all comes down to who do you really love, "yourself or our LORD JESUS CHRIST?" I AGREE WE MUST REALLY TAKE GOOD CLOSE LONG LOOK AT THE CROSS & WHAT REALLY TOOK PLACE THERE. AMEN
It's hard to believe sin is sin in human eyes like in God's eyes! It's like a lie is the same thing as rape? To humans it doesn't make sense, but as humans we need to know that in God's eye it's all the same!
What about unnecessary death and murder of over 200,000 Iraqi women and children for no reason? Is that a sin? What about cutting aid to schools and poverty-stricken people in the US? Is that a sin?
If so, why do so many friggin' "Christians" vote Republican?
If the "Christians" of this nation are really concerned about sin, they should stop supporting politicians who cut money to the poor and start supporting the leaders who are trying to help the poor. Do you think Jesus Christ ever frothed at the mouth over gas prices or a 1.2 % tax hike to people making more than 250 grand a year? NO!
Christ would have been standing by whomever was sacrificing to help the poor. Face it people. The "Christians" of this nation are the least-Christian people to walk this planet.
@fromprivatetopublic@xanga - I just love this comment. You are so right. In god's eyes all sin is the same . It is all sin that seperates us from God.
@RobertLeeRE@xanga - You're right, but Paul says that if someone lives in and is still a slave to sin, then they are not a Christian. Sin that is not followed by continual repentance and faith is evidence that the person was never saved to begin with.
@walawalawinksi@xanga
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree, slave as defined as someone that never reads their bible, never prays, never repents, never assembles with other Christians,never witnesses, never baptises ecetra ecetra.
But we must be careful and leave the judgement to God. Some people's faith is very little and some great and these people need encouragement.
And there are a lot of bad churches out there.
The problem is there are many that preach what Paul calls a foreign gospel that is no gospel at all. they teach people that salvation is something earned and it isn't. Salvation is a free gift anyone can open. But yes there should in most instances be a radical difference once born again with the sinner attempting to live a sinless life.
Oh I just read the end of your comment and see that we agree. Your saying unless they are continually repenting. yes, I agree, continually repenting is the key here. Also there should be a major change from before saved and after saved in most instances, with gradually less and less sin, possibly even with what appears from the outside no sin at all. The point is though everyone sins until death but through regeneration and justification a process of decreasing over the lifetime of the Saint in question.
@dustysojourner@xanga -
Never the less you must consider the entire bible, not just a few verses.
The entire bible supports a life long journey of justification as defined and taught by the Apostle Paul in which the individual never stops sinning once saved but learns gradually in the practice of being saved how to stop sinning Romans 7:14-23.
People have addictions and different things they must overcome, and many times this does not occur overnight. Salvation does not start a sinless journey as much as a sinning a lot less journey.The entire bible supports this. We see even in King David's life of falling into adultry and trying to cover it but eventually repenting when exposed by Nathan the prophet. We see the same in Peter when denying Christ three times. In God's eyes all sin is sin. There is no sin good and some bad. People are saved by God and once saved no one can take that soul from God's hand. Those that sin reap consequences in their life not eternal consequences, otherwise God is a liar and God is not a liar according to Romans 10:9-15.
God Bless,
Brother RobertLeeRE
@walawalawinksi@xanga -
And of course they must acknowledge sin as sin. They cannot being manipulating scripture to their own ends removing some parts they do not like and adding other parts in violation of the last 5 verses in Revelation.
God Bless,
Brother Robert
@RobertLeeRE@xanga - I wouldn't say I saw the same things you saw in this post.
@RobertLeeRE@xanga - I agree that God makes it quite clear how much grace He shows to us in order for us to grow and mature in our faith. I don't deny that we will be tempted and stumble, especially in this age, and fall to temptation. What I hope people will recognize is that far too often teachers and preachers abuse grace and lead people into a lifestyle of spiritually insulting the Spirit of Grace by continually sinning.
You seem to be keeping a tight watch on this post, and I can't tell if you're trying to argue that sin isn't serious enough to warrant departing from, but the Bible is the manifold counsel of God. And like you said, you must take into account the whole Word of God, and not just a few passages.
What we see when we combine God's teaching on justification, grace, repentance, and the power to turn from iniquity is the full measure of His power through the Spirit to make a new creation inside the hearts and minds of those who believe in Him by faith and have been born again.
My caution is always to ask me to question why they are trying to excuse sin? God never excused sin- King David was warned by the prophet, punished, and turned from his sins, Peter repented and was later put to death for his faith, and Paul was consistently persecuted. We don't see a picture that excuses sin, rather, we see the power of God's grace to lead us to repentance (Romans 2:4).
Anyway, for some reason I felt like your post was rebutting the passages I used. So I just wanted to mention that, just like you said, we can't toss one passage out in favor of another. They are all there. The message that this author posted is relevant and Biblically founded for the most part. So I don't see why such an aggressive stance is warranted.
@ToastersNMilkshakes@xanga - I re-read after your comment and think I was somehow influenced after I read the first commenter which made me think very legalistic. I can now see the OP point of view and he was not legalistic as I said. So I removed my post.
@dustysojourner@xanga - yes, I agree. I went back and re-read the post and realised It was the first post that came across very legalistic and not the OP.
And , we are not talking of excusing sin of course. The issue is of whether or not we are teaching a works based gospel or a grace based gospel. This was my point and there are many denominations that teach you can lose your salvation, or you can backslide. I believe this does a lot of damage in the church community and it is nonscriptural. And there are a lot of them mixing mosaic law with the gospel like titheing.
And I do agree with all your quotes, only that that all must be in the context of the rest of the bible. The rest of Paul's dogma must be considered.
I can see now the OP is scripturally sound but earlier I thought not until I reread the OP. Some how I read the OP and then the first comment and suddenly the whole thing came across very legalistic like a woks based gospel. I now know only the first one comes across like that.
Once again though Romans 2:4 must be considered in the context of the entire book of Romans; in the entire context of all the Pauline Epistles and the church and Saint dogma that are instituted and how this is in context of the bible.
The bottom line is this, for me. Not enough grace is being preached and too much legalism, Phariseeism andthe gospel is being mixed by many with mosaic law..
I just feel very strongly that the OPs assertion that Christianity is apathetic toward sin is wrong. The ones that are apathetic though are the ones coming out of seminary. I place the blame on the Pastors and theologians, not the sheep.
God Bless,
Brother RobertLeeRE
@RobertLeeRE@xanga - It happens! I'd be interested in hearing why you think that no one can lose their salvation.
@dustysojourner@xanga - The reason why is that if you believe that then you believe your salvation is based on your strength, your works to get to heaven. There is nothing in scripture that supports losing salvation and everything that supports the once saved always saved doctrine. It is a slippery slope and once you believe that your believing in a works based gospel, The evidence is quite overwhelming..
verse 9 " 'If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 for it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and you are saved. 11 As the scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Romans 10:9-11
How can a man be saved and than be unsaved; It is an impossiblility to be saved and then to later be unsaved. For if later you are unsaved you were never saved at all. If we say it is possible to be unsaved we are calling God himself a liar and if we are calling God a liar we are also saying his only begotten Son, a perfect final sacrifice for all past, present and future sins was not needed for we are able to avoid sin through good works. This belief is an insult to God who gave Jesus Christ for us to be saved.
Anything based on your works is same as mosaic law. It is a failed system meant to only awaken the need of a final perfect sacrifice. Its all in Romans. You cannot listen to preachers on this one. Must study Romans and Paul's letters.
How do you believe a Saint could lose their Salvation? Give me your best scriptures and we can discuss.
But Preachers like to Preach you can lose your salvation. They do this to try to manipulate you to keep you under them spiritually, and keep you in their church. It is the same with the unscriptural teaching of titheing.
God Bless,
Brother RobertLeeRE
@RobertLeeRE@xanga - I very much agree that there is grave danger of falling into the deception that would say your salvation comes (or is sustained) by your own merits when people begin to talk about the possibility of losing your salvation. But I also believe that the converse extreme of once saved always saved leads to an equally dangerous stance of cavalier arrogance and apathy towards the seriousness of sin.
Satan is truly a roaring lion, prowling around to devour those whom he can. So we must carefully consider our paths whichever way we take.
So I will say that I do not believe that my salvation is earned or sustained by my own merits, but that it is a work of God being perfected to the end in me, and in those who humbly submit to Him with love from a pure heart.
I have to admit, I think it is quite an cocky thing to claim that there is absolutely no evidence in the scriptures to support the potential for lost salvation. To name a few, there are passages in like Galatians 5:1-5 and Romans 11:18-22, one of which speak to gentile Christians regarding the danger of being submitted to a yoke of slavery again and the other serves as a warning not to become arrogant lest they be cut off.
Considering how much writing and commentary is being produced in recent years on the book of Revelation, the passage in Revelation 22:19 has great bearing since it says that anyone who takes away from this book will be removed from the Lamb's book of life (I personally think that is a sobering warning considering how much is taken away from the book today in modern writing).
Often times verses like Ephesians 5:3-5, 1st Corinthians 6:9, Galatians 5:19, and Revelation 21:6-8 are used to site possible ways to lose your salvation, and although I believe they reveal to us the evidences of unbelief (and they do tell us a certain kind of person who will not inherit the Kingdom of God) I believe these passages are more about the sons of disobedience, and not specifically related to Christians.
More to the point, Colossians 1:22-23 actually says that we can be removed away from the hope that we once had.
There are quite a few other passages that teach us about this, but I will simplify here by saying that it is not by our work that we are saved or persevere in salvation, but through the work of God through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit that we are saved unto the end. The only way to lose your salvation is for your heart to grow cold in sin and cause you to resist the work of God in you and thus you yourself turn away from God.
@dustysojourner@xanga -
Remember Romans was by far the last book written by Paul, whose church doctrine was recieved by revelation from Jesus Christ. For if we are saved by God how can we ever be unsaved? this is calling God a liar. for the preaching of this false doctrine damages the church body greatly. It is grace that God wants us to preach, not inconsistancies. Romans was like Paul;s desertation of all the other letters he wrote. Romans is the highest level of Church dogma. All the rest were not even in ballpark as Paul.
What you need to do is think for yourself on this one. Forget what everyone is saying, forget the commentaries, forget about going to Greek. Just read the scripture, God's love for us is grace. Once saved can never ever ever be unsaved---It just doesn;t make sense. You know this is true....
As far as the last few verses in Revelation I believe this also involves going to the Greek or Hebrew and taking meaning out or adding meaning into to manipulate people in violation of Revelation We must just take scripture as it lay.
I have studied all these in depth and used to believe as you for many years but all these still cannot be interpreted in light of these verses, Romans 10:9-11
verse 9 " 'If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 for it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and you are saved. 11 As the scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.
In light of all this one must consider the history of the gospel itself. God revealed Himself to mankind at a time mankind forgot God. This God is a God of 2nd chances. for God to promise to people they are saved in scripture only to have some saved and some not saved would be a very shameful God. For scripture says "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.
I hear what you are saying, I just do not agree. If you do not believe in a once saved always saved doctrine you are following a works based gospel that is a slippery slope to legalism.
There is just no scriptural support for that doctrine. Just like tithing it is a church doctrine made up by preachers to control and manipulate congregants to keep them in their local church so they keep donating money. The true gospel is pure grace which can only be once saved always saved. Mixing works or mosaic law makes the gospel a foreign gospel which Paul said is no gospel at all.
God Bless,
Brother RobertLeeRE
I totally agree! Luke 18:8 says: "...when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" (NKJV) We must return to be the kind of disciples that were in the early church, despite the new attractions of this world.