I believe God expects us to be responsible. And this sounds very irresponsible.

Plus, is she really "all about letting God provide" if she only relies on Him when she's deliberately spent everything she has? That doesn't sound right to me.

God is forever dealing with me on not being so self-sufficient and learning to trust in and rely on Him all the time. I have never run out of money, but I still trust God to keep me provided for and also to help me govern my finances with wisdom. Personally, I believe saving is a wise choice.

Just my thoughts.

@Shadowrunner81@xanga - "God helps those who help themselves" is not in the Bible. If He only helped those who help themselves, none of us would be saved, because we can't help ourselves.

So yeah... that's not in the Bible, but being a good steward of what has been entrusted to you is. And I think saving is part of being a good steward, just like living within our means is. It's about using money wisely.

Saving need not mean we're not relying on God. God might ask us to take those savings and give it to someone in need. The main thing to remember is that everything we have is His.

God will provide. God will provide enough terrorists to burn this country to the ground so Americans can charge themselves to rebuild it. yay jerbs!

Oh come one.  This one's a no brainer.  It's kind of like saying I'm not ever going to the doctor unless I'm half dead.  Then I'll test God to save me.  Oh, wait, maybe he'll just save me in the next life and let my mate bear the cost of a funeral.

Proper stewardship and good financial planning is important for every Christian (just ask Dave Ramsey!)  We are to be good stewards of that which the Lord has entrusted to us, which would include things like proper life insurance, savings accounts, and whatever it takes to be good managers and providers.  Consider the following passages of Scripture:

From Luke 14:  28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’

From 1 Timothy 5:  8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

We also have the lesson taught in the parable of the wise manager (Luke 12:42-48).

And of course we can't forget the parable of the ten talents (Matthew 25:14-30) as it was previously pointed out.

Money isn't usually the problem in and of itself; rather it's the attitude of the heart with regard to it.  When money becomes an idol, then there's a problem.  (cf. 1 Timothy 6:10, Luke 12:13-21)  It's the attitude that needs to be changed, and not the bank account.

The foolishness of somebody who doesn't financially plan or save, and uses the excuse that "the Lord will provide," is much the same as Jesus' conversation with Satan in Matthew 4:7:  Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

The Lord gives us the means to earn a living and invest wisely, and he will indeed bless our efforts when we are being good Christian stewards.  We can't use the "Lord will provide" excuse to justify lazy saving habits and suggest that we live on a hand-to-mouth existence.  That's not serving the Lord!

With every pre-nuptial couple that I have counseled, I always stress the importance of proper financial planning.  Then as a wedding gift, I have give the couple a copy of Dave Ramsey's book, "The Total Money Make-over."  Those people who have read it, have come back later and told me how much they appreciated it.

Dave Ramsey is a Christian who puts the proper emphasis upon good stewardship, as well as how to provide for one's family.  I suggest you get a copy of his book, or even better, attend his "Financial Peace University" when it comes to a town near you.

--Pastor Dan

@RevoHor@xanga - What is this even? Do you pay bills? Have you ever been in a situation where you NEED money and don't have it? God isn't going to come down with a wallet and pay your medical bills. He's not going to mail a check when you're close to getting evicted. Are you suggesting that people should be okay, getting parasites, sleeping on the floor? I mean, are you even suggesting that people should stop saving and shutup and deal with only being able to afford catfood and blankets when they're in their 70s, their 80s? Open your eyes! Live somewhere you can initially afford and then get your hours cut like everyone else in the country! Go to college and get nauseated about your tuition you'll be paying off for the next 10 years! Don't act like money means nothing. God gave you a damn brain, he'd probably love you to use that instead of rely on his money orders that you've apparently applied first for and are patiently waiting their arrival.

@gobdog@xanga - Actually, I work 2 jobs, just got my salary cut due to economic downsizing, I have a second child soon to be born, and I have very little money in the bank. I'm poor by the world's standards. But I'm not afraid, I'm not in debt, and I've never missed a bill payment or gone hungry. God has indeed paid my bills when I saw no way I could. I'm not against saving money, but I am totally opposed to trying to control my life and be my own god and be the god of my money and my future. All of that is in the hands of the Lord God and I am called only to be faithful with what He has given me. He will take care of the things I can't supply.

Continue to wrestle with God on this one. Many of the Bibical characters were wealthy, which means they did not spend all of the riches that God allotted to them. At the sametime, they did spend it where He prompted to spend it.

I don't think saving or owning a savings account is bad. Proverbs 13:22 states "A good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children, but a sinner's wealth is stored up for the righteous." I believe this is speaking of both material and eternal riches. A good man doesn't just plan for himself, he plans for others, including those who come after him. But, we are told not to cling to things that rot away or rust. So, a good man also invests much time teaching his children the fear and knowledge of God, which includes teaching them how to be a steward of His pocessions.

One of my past Sunday school teachers talked about making space for God in our lives. (God dwells in the "empty" space.) He talked about purposefully living below your means so that there would be money set aside for God. More than just the tithe. He spoke to us about the sum of money that he'd saved up over the years, the money that was used to build an orphanage (of sorts) in our town and start programs to help the children of poor families. Not just feed them earthly bread but the Word of God.

These people who do not have a savings account are not stupid. They are doing as God leads them. He will provide for them, just as He provides for the rest of us.

I will confess that what is in my savings account is for a "rainy day." It is for those personal emergencies. However, I pray that in those moments, I will be thankful that God allowed me to store it up so that those needs can be met. To heed the warning of Deuteronomy 8. And I know it must be Him watching over it because there is always enough there. More, actually, more. I have enough to meet my needs and to provide for others. Like when the tornado destroyed half the town I live in, somehow there was enough in my account to spend two months worth of groceries on clothing, food, water, and toiletries for those who lost everything. (I say this not to boast about what I did, but to boast about what God did.)

Amy, I applaud you for choosing to deal with this question of whether to save or to give. Both choices have merit, and there probably is no one single answer. All saving and no spending/giving is hoarding, while all spending/giving and no saving is wasteful... the best answer must lie somewhere in between, but it may be different for each person. My wife and I have been trying to address this same issue for our own family, and I think we are on a good path now but have so far to go.

What caught my attention was your poignant reference to the "Un-American Dream," to me a reference to some misconceptions Americans in particular have about the wise use of money. In this American culture, we are programmed to be consumers, and so our financial questions revolve around how to spend and acquire. Affluence has turned the question of "whether or not we should have a large screen TV" into "which large screen TV should we get". PastorDan's comments above are very good, and that is pretty much the direction we are now heading. 

My wife and I have 5 children, so financial stability has strong meaning for us. We are concerned about saving for the future, but this economy makes it very difficult -- cost of living keeps going up out of proportion to the paycheck. A huge deal for us was the shift in perspective from that of being a consumer to that of being a PRODUCER. We're moving away from this notion of saving in order to be "comfortable" when we retire. Retirement is a corporate word. Somehow people think it's okay to work hard and then not work (even if you still have the ability to), but that just reveals an inherent desire for the "life of ease". My family's intent now is to learn how to produce -- vegetable garden, building and repair skills, non-corporate means of income, etc -- to teach our children how to produce, and to never stop producing. Replace dependency with self-sufficiency, which has much more lasting power. Retirement, then, has little if any meaning, but the goal of stability is actually better served.

As to the question of saving versus giving to the poor... Yes. Do both. We are struggling right now to pay all the bills plus make gradual improvement to the house. But we tithe and we give some to charity, both financially and with our time/energy. It's not much, but it's something. What's important is to be in the PRACTICE of giving. It's largely a delusion to think, "I will start giving later when I have enough to give." Give now, even if it's a little. If you don't, you probably won't give later even when you have more to give. Giving everything you have may seem foolish to some, especially if done out of trust in God, and I'm not there either. But that may be an issue of my own faith. I can't say it's wrong to give everything, because that's what Jesus said to do. It really does all belong to Him, anyway. 

I think saving is wise, but the question for each individual is: "For what purpose?" Is the savings to serve yourself only or to sustain yourself + help others. My family has the desire to help others in big ways when we have the means to, whether it might be big support for a missionary, seed money to help a promising individual start a business, reduce the dark cloud of debt for our kids, etc. But for now, we are simply practicing giving in small ways as we are able. 

Practice giving. Produce more, consume less. All that we have is God's. The attitude is everything. 

If you're interested, here's some more stuff I wrote on life decisions... subjects like this one. Maybe you'll find it useful. 

God bless!

God, the universe, or any other number of other deities, this question
always comes up and it's ridiculous.  Nowhere but in religious practices
do you find people identifying real world possibilities for disaster
and purposely opting not to deal with them, or even sometimes, make them
worse, because they trust someone or something else will take care of
it for them.

Let's say you have 3 friends, and each of them has the same problem
because each of them lives in the same bad part of town with no limited
prospects for work, and each having kids.  One of them goes out and
travels and spends three weeks out of the month trying to find a job and
finally finds one that's 3 bus rides away and takes and takes an hour
and a half to get there.

The other spends a chunk of what remains of her money on cleaning
resources and goes door to door with fliers for weeks, handing out
fliers for her cleaning service.  Over time she gets more and more, and
slowly builds up, through this tiring and monotonous self made job, then
ultimately gets a steady amount of money.

The last person, well.  They do nothing, because they know you're a good
friend to them, and they've been friendly to you, talking to you every
so often.  So it's fine, before anything gets really bad, they trust
you'll pull them out of their poverty and give them what they need. 
Maybe you'll win the lottery and give your winnings to them and provide
for them.  Not for the others, they're already set, they didn't trust in
you.  No, just in the person who had faith in you and waited, that's
who you'll give your money to, enough money for them to live, on a long
term basis.

Am I wrong in thinking that's unbelievable to expect of a friend?  To do
nothing, when others clearly are doing something, because they trust in
you to swoop in and fix it for them because they don't want to do what
everyone else is doing and protecting themselves?  Those who believe in
god often say he's meant to be more than a friend, but why do we think
he'll find this sort of refusal to do for ourselves any cuter or more
worthy than we would if one of our friends did it to us?

Hope for the best, plan for the worst, and when you need to plan for
something bad, don't pray for god to create and send you a life raft
when you need it most.  Pray the air stays in the one you got yourself
and doesn't puncture on a twig in a flood, on the things of chance.  Not
of certainty.  If god has made all the plans, I seriously doubt he's
made any human being who's job and destiny is to wait for him to fix
their problems.

@blonde_apocalypse@xanga - Where in this post did I say that's what I was going to do?

@VampireOfSeduction@xanga - No, when I say "God", I mean "GOD".