Wednesday, 29 February 2012
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The Homeschool Debate: Conservatives, Liberals and Diversity
By Nic Don at TheopoliticalNeo-Anabaptist Scot McKnight has written a response to a recent Slate article entitled “Liberals: Don’t Homeschool Your Kids.” The primary argument of the Slate article is that homeschooling can never be progressive because homeschooling by its decentralized nature cannot serve the needs of society at large.
McKnight counters that a diversity of perspectives benefits a polyglot society more than the monolithic perspective a 100% compliant public school system would foster. He writes,
Aren’t we better off in a society that draws on folks who got different sorts of education? Some progressives seem to think a diverse society is one where every 14-year-old in America arrives at school, pledges allegiance to the nation’s flag, takes out an American history textbook shaped by panels of bureaucrats in California and Texas, and proceeds to be guided by a teacher with a state issued credential in how best to pass a standardized test. Who is celebrating diversity, the champions of putting every kid in the education wonk’s vision of the ideal classroom, or the folks who want some kids to start their day interacting with multi-ethnic classmates while others start their school day praying and still others learn about raising backyard chickens?
It is interesting to me that liberals/progressives generally claim a monopoly on embracing diversity, when my understanding of conservatism (based largely around the local agrarian insights of a Wendell Berry or, dare I say, Thomas Jefferson) is based precisely around preserving specific instances of diversity.
As McKnight summarizes, “society as a whole requires people who challenge the prevailing system if it is to identify the few who can offer new insights.” Clipped from its context defending homeschooling as one choice among many (and McKnight emphasizes that it may not be the best choice), this could be part of any progressive mantra.
What do you think? Who has the corner on diversity? Is either homeschooling or its eradication more likely to benefit society as a whole?
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Comments (60)
@TheBlueNinjaTiger@xanga - I was also an AP kid, although I'm almost ten years out of high school. I agree with you that parenting is a big contributor to children not learning or doing well in school, but poorly qualified teachers and silly curriculum has a fair share of the blame. I don't know about your high school, but many of the "regular" classes were taught by coaches during their non-athletics periods.
The only teachers who really had expertise in the subject that they were teaching were the AP teachers. That's a major problem. The other teachers weren't that informed about their subject, or passionate, and so were unable to inspire any passion or sense of relevance towards their subject in the kids.
@TheBlueNinjaTiger@xanga - I respect your concern for this area. However. Have you thought about the fact that the social atmosphere of public school has often times created an environment where children with issues have gone off & murdered their fellow classmates & teachers. A social environment where an 11 year old is killed (trauma to the head) in a fight over a boy. A social environment where children commit suicide before they ever reach their teenage years (so elementary aged) because of socialization in public schools?
I do not feel that public schools offer very much (note I didn't say nothing) in the way of GOOD socialization.
However, a homeschool family can get their child active in homeschool co-ops where they interact with other students in a classroom atmosphere. They can engage their child in extra curricular activities such as karate, ballet, sports, art focused groups, music focused groups, etc. There are plenty of homeschool groups (yahoo groups, meetup.com, etc) for making friends & going to playgroups & going on field trips, visiting each others' homes, etc. Then many homeschoolers opt to engage their children in things like outreach groups (habitat for humanity, soup kitchens, drives & fundraisers to help out the less fortunate).
In effect there are SO many DIFFERENT ways to socialize your child as a homeschooler. These opportunities are much more diverse than any public school, in part because they are not separated by age or gender, etc.
There is NO NEED for any child to go to a public school environment to succeed socially. In fact, I highly believe that often times (NOT meant to mean all times), public school "socialization" is detrimental to a child's self image & to how they relate to peers. Unless a person is going for indoctrinating their child that it is how they look or how they dress or how much money or how slutty they are that makes them worth something.
@Pickwick12@xanga - "It absolutely sends me into hysterical laughter that anyone is even arguing that state-mandated public education produces more diverse perspectives than homeschooling."
Fuck you.
Were it not for public education, the poor would have been furthern entrenched in poverty. Our public education system virtually eradicated illiteracy and made possible the class mobility that came to define America through the 19th and 20th centuries.
I have little doubt that home-schooling has worked for you and your sister and also for your merry band of friends. Most parents, however, don't have the personal or economic luxury to dedicate their working hours to the personal one-on-one education of their son or daughter.
Those who can't afford private education and the luxury of home-schooling need the public education system. It is ignorant and mis-guided to dictate the education policy of a nation based on the personal experiences of a thin socio-economic slice of a few.
@Celestial_Teapot@xanga - This is why I believe in vouchers for private education. If, hypothetically, all the money going to public schools was funneled back as vouchers to poor families, they could afford to have their children educated privately.
@TheBlueNinjaTiger@xanga - I don't believe you can so easily shrug it all off to parenting. Parents usually send their children to public school for a reason. They don't have the time to educate their children and/or they don't have the confidence in themselves to teach the children (read some of the comments where people here think because they've been out of school for a while that means they are inadequate to teach their children - as if they will be creating the curriculum themselves or something). My parents tried hard to help me with school work. However, neither of them graduated high school & so they really couldn't help me in math (the only subject I ever needed help with). I struggled to maintain a C or D in math. Yet when I did a work at your own pace cd program in college (it was a no credit course I HAD to take based on my math test results), the program (not a professor) taught me the math & I easily got a B on the tests.
THIS tells me that though my parents tried & were willing to help, they couldn't. It also tells me that because I could learn it easily through a computerized math program, that it wasn't ME that was the problem, it was my teachers & my classroom environment.
So let's not pretend that schools are "good enough" & teachers aren't part of the problem & that it's mostly the parents. That's highly generalized & completely unfair as well as just plain wrong. I know that my life is not the base all for everything & that was the only example I gave, but I am willing to bet that my family's efforts & willingness to help is representative of the majority of parents out there. I know I'm on a birthboard of about 80 women & we have school aged children. Several are teachers. They do mention parent issues, but you would be surprised how often the women on my board have a difficult time getting the teachers to cooperate & communicate with them. Trust me, it IS the school system that is the one at fault.
Homeschooling has it's ups, but it also has it's downs too. I was homeschooled from Kindergarten to 8th grade. Then from 9th to 12th grade I went to a private Christian school (definitely far from a public school, but definitely not homeschooling). And while my mom did a very good job of giving me a social life (we went to church Sunday morning and evening and on Wednesday nights for AWANA, went to Co-op which is a weekly "school day" for homeschooled kids, and had plenty of sleep overs with my friends from church and co-op), but I couldn't help but feel a little socially awkward especially since I was the new kid and all of my classmates had been friends since kindergarten, so I felt a little left out. But, I was grateful for the one-on-one time I got in my classes.
And then came the private school. After my freshman year I got used to the amount of people I was around every day and I had some friends. My class was small (graduating class of 2008, my year, was 14 students) so there really wasn't any room for clicks and excluded groups groups. But, the small amount of students wasn't always a good thing. Secrets and gossip got out way faster than it would have in a public school and once one person knew something EVERYONE knew it, whether it was true or not. In the end, I think I would have rather been homeschooled through high school like I had been up until 8th grade. But, I don't regret any experiences I had.
But, when it comes to what I'll do with my kids in the future, I will probably send them to public school. My boyfriend and I have talked about this extensively. He went to a public school. We don't have a set decision, we're weighing all the options and we obviously have quite a while to make this decisions since we aren't married yet and we don't have any kids yet. So our options are still wide open.
@Pickwick12@xanga - "This is why I believe in vouchers for private education. If, hypothetically, all the money going to public schools was funneled back as vouchers to poor families, they could afford to have their children educated privately."
Come on, that view is short-sighted:
(1) Private schools carry all of your avowed disadvantages of your "public school" but amplified: Indoctrination and biased curriculum.
In public school the cirriculum and oversight are conducted transparently through democratically eelected education boards. The standards of public schools are regulated through state and federal education standards. Private schools escape transparency and binding regulations.
(2) Vouchers aren't 100% reimbursements and don't equate to affordability.
Even with the support of a couple bucks through vouchers, many lower class parents still would be able to afford the full cost of private grade and high schools for all their kids.
(3) Access: Not all neighborhood has a private school or room room for everyone who wants to attend.
Many private schools are sectarian (Catholic, Quaker, etc.) or elite in their admissions standard. Even if a public school parents were given vouchers and magically able to afford a local private school, they may not want to or be able to get in.
(4) Underminning of Public Education.
Public education is only possible through a pooling of resources and students. When you take money from public education, you take money from public education infrastructure and teacher salary. Especially in this current economic climate, when public education is already severely scaled back, dropping the bottom out of it through your plan would fundamentally undermine the quality of and sustainability of public education.
Again, it is 'o so fucking wonderful you turned out super. Sadly, not all of us have parents able or suitable for home-schooling. A few particular success stories is poor basis for general public policy.
@Celestial_Teapot@xanga - I couldn't disagree more, but thanks for the reply.
@Pickwick12@xanga - I couldn't have thanked you more for your superficial reading and dismisal! You're welcome.
@TheBlueNinjaTiger@xanga - Have to reply to this comment too, even though it wasn't written directly at me.
The socialization aspect is a pretty common criticism of homeschooling. I happen to disagree though, both on the effectiveness and the necessity of public school socialization.
First of all, I don't think that public school socialization is that valuable, and I don't think that schools are that good at it. Look at the cliques and bullying that goes on- that's not how adults act. At least, not most adults. School is a very different model from the real world, which leads to my second point: that public school socialization is necessary. Is it really? Most kids in high school, barring the naturally confident and/or "popular" kids, are pretty awkward.
School should have the purpose of preparing a child for life in the real world, and 30 kids, born in the same year, sitting for 8 hours in a classroom with an adult talking at them, is not anything like life what their adult life will be like. They *might* come out with the skills to succeed in college, but not the skills to succeed in a work environment. They get those skills from being around adults.
Kids need more time with adults to learn how to be an adult. They can't learn that from other children. I am arguing that kids need more time with parents, tutors, bosses, teachers- where they are actually interacting. Homeschooling can offer this (unless the parents are hermits, which happens less than you might think; homeschooling is becoming more popular among "normal" people), and maybe private school. Public school- not usually.
School is about more than learning--it's about learning to live and work with those who different from you as well. I went to public school and loved it--or at the very least, loved to hate some of the laughable problems that a lot of people pointed out so truly. But what I think is great about public school is that its an experience that almost all Americans shere, in one form or another, and gives you a chance to interact with lots of people. It is really scary, however, the amount of control that textbook editors have and the amount of propaganda they put into what children learn. "Some Lessons from the Underground History of American Public Education" makes for an interesting read.
Maybe decentralized, community based schooling would be the answer. Local people can influence what their kids learn, based on a national model. The most successful districts are rewarded. Seems lyk a good plan. I wouldn't want to ban home school or private school though--in fact, I don't reckon there are many things that ought to be banned at all, except for rape, theft, and (sometimes) murder. Any laws beyond that are an infringement on liberty.
@WaitingToShrug@xanga - "First of all, I don't think that public school socialization is that valuable, and I don't think that schools are that good at it. Look at the cliques and bullying that goes on- that's not how adults act."
You don't think ethnic, religious, and socio-economic diversity is a good thing?
When we get out of our personal bubbles-- in college and the workplace-- we're going to have to interact with a great variety of attitudes, beliefs, and backgrounds. I believe that one of the roles of grade and high school education is to build the tolerance, understanding, and acclimatization important for future success.
@Celestial_Teapot@xanga - I don't think that diversity is a good or bad thing. It's just a statistic. What race, religion, economic status, whatever, doesn't really change how you should behave to a person, so why would the level of diversity make a difference? Not only that, but the diversity in a public school is still limited to those living very close to you. In the case of my school, that meant a high population of white kids, quite a few Hispanics, some black people, and a few Asians and Indians. A couple of Middle Easterners. I don't think I ever met, for example, a Pacific Islander, or a person who was actually from another country.
In any case, public education doesn't fill the role that you assign it. Cliques are worse in public school than anywhere else. Kids are made fun of because of their differences, not celebrated for them. It is the parents who pass down the attitudes about other people- what the teacher says, if the teacher says anything, is negligible.
I see the role of public education in existence, I just think that it's terrible at accomplishing what it says it will. Yes, our children can read... but some of them, just barely. Preparing a child for life after school- they do an awful job of that. Socialization- just look at the children coming out of school. A lot of them have been bullied into depression, or they think that they have to dress and be whores to be worth anything, or they are just plain socially inept.
I did come out of a public school, and I turned out okay. But, as I stated somewhere above, I was an AP kid; my teachers paid more attention to me. The average student is not getting a whole lot out of public school.
@WaitingToShrug@xanga -
Your points about public school not preparing kids for the work force are completely valid and true. However, most of the homeschooled kids I know are not very good at handling stressful social situations. To add to what @Celestial_Teapot@xanga - said about diversity, in my experience, a diverse student body is extremely valuable. The schools in my area that had bullying problems, like Plano, TX and other schools north of Dallas, had populations that were all the same, in this case, white. I attended Duncanville HS, which had a pretty diverse mix of Black, Hispanic, White, and Asian cultures. Many kids were poor, some were middle class. In a school like this, clicks and bullies weren't an issue. We had enough diversity that everyone was able to find somewhere they fit in, and all those poor kids raised in somewhat tough neighborhoods had a very low tolerance for bullying. Yeah, there were kids who'd scream obscenities at you when you bumped into them in the hallway, but that's my point. You learn to deal with people like that. You learn to deal with crowds, with bullies, with idiots. You learn how to find the right people to interact with. You get to see why your parents were right when they told you what they did.
**edit** Oh and clicks are worst in private schools, not public schools.
@TheBlueNinjaTiger@xanga - I don't understand why people seem to think public education is the only way to have socialization. I was homeschooled my whole life, and I always found it so amusing that people I would meet at community events, volunteer opportunities, or in the work place ALWAYS asked how on earth I was socialized as a homeschooled child. I always wanted to reply "Well I'm standing here socializing with YOU, aren't I?"
I would go out on a limb and say that if you get the chance to speak with a homeschooled student outside of online gaming, you would find they are, in general, quite attentive, give more eye contact when conversing, are very polite, and quick as whips =]I don't really think it's fair for you to make these calls based on online gaming. I could introduce you to dozens and dozens of homeschoolers who would blow your theory out of the water in daily life situations...but I guess I can't vouch for how they interact online....though that would be the least of my worries.@WaitingToShrug@xanga -
"But public schools also censor material. The boards who create the curriculum and approve textbooks are most definitely not objective either."
it depends on why the censorship exists. i come from a family where my super-conservative grandmother threw a fit when i learned about ancient Chinese civilization in third grade. the reason? it's not in the Bible. so, perhaps i am biased due to my experience... but i don't believe children deserve to be handicapped by their parents' bigotry.
not to mention, schooling offers an excellent societal safety net to catch things that would otherwise go unnoticed: abuse at home, illnesses, learning disabilities, etc.
@MyTwoCentss@xanga -
"The homeschool parent does not have to be the one to create the curriculum. Does a teacher at a public school create the curriculum? NO. They don't even get to choose it. They have the curriculum to teach from, it is chosen for them & they have teacher's manuals that instruct them on ways to teach the material & an answer key. "
all of the best instructors i've ever had didn't simply read the curriculum they were given. they shared experiences from their own studies, created their own lesson plans, invented new ways of teaching the material, etc. at best, you're encouraging parents to become crappy, mediocre teachers. i think there's so much more to teaching than simply drill-and-kill instruction. it's about creating a genuine passion for the material.
@WaitingToShrug@xanga -
"Kids are made fun of because of their differences, not celebrated for them."
so what's worse: being exposed to that at a young age and maturing from it, or not having a single conflict with a peer until you're in college?
" A lot of them have been bullied into depression, or they think that they have to dress and be whores to be worth anything, or they are just plain socially inept."
last i checked, good parenting can fix that. schools aren't supposed to raise your children for you... they're to educate, and that's it. maybe if parents weren't so lazy about their own responsibilities, we wouldn't have this theory that they're failing at doing things they shouldn't be doing in the first place.
@MyTwoCentss@xanga -
"
These opportunities are much more diverse than any public school, in part because they are not separated by age or gender, etc. "
that depends on where you go. my school had clubs for EVERYTHING... we even had a Chinese Buffet Club, where all we did was go to different Chinese restaurants and hang out. i really don't know where you get your notions about public school, but the only thing separated by gender were the bathrooms.
"Unless a person is going for indoctrinating their child that it is how they look or how they dress or how much money or how slutty they are that makes them worth something. "
if you're raised properly, you enter school with high self-esteem and don't have a need for indoctrination. i went to public school and didn't have any of those issues.
based on a lot of your comments, i get the feeling that you just want to shelter your children from all that's horrible in the world for as long as you can. and that's fine. but that's your decision. if you can't be happy with your decision without belittling those who choose otherwise, then you're just an arrogant snob. i will send my kids to public school, and i am not a horrible parent for doing so.
@MyTwoCentss@xanga -
"That's highly generalized & completely unfair as well as just plain wrong. "
so is blaming the school system for everything. i get it, you had a shitty experience. not everyone does. i certainly didn't. and my parents had nothing to do with it. i think i was just one of those students who doesn't need their instructors' complete attention in order to learn anything. i didn't need to be catered to, but perhaps some people do. for them, homeschooling is fine. but it's not what i would like for my children
PS sorry for sending you so many comments. i keep finding things to respond to!
Saying things like
"McKnight counters that a diversity of perspectives benefits a polyglot
society more than the monolithic perspective a 100% compliant public
school system would foster"
and
"when my understanding of conservatism (based largely around the local
agrarian insights of a Wendell Berry or, dare I say, Thomas Jefferson)"
make you seem really douchey.
@WaitingToShrug@xanga - my b0yfriend went 2 private school; he says its very cliquesh. Based on income, sports, and drug use. He ended up on heroin because he was the poor kid
i've met loads of home schooled kids.... they ALL claimed to be sooooooo socialized, they were ALL creepy weirdos
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - "i think there's so much more to teaching
than simply drill-and-kill instruction. it's about creating a genuine
passion for the material."
Ironic - 99% of homeschoolers would agree with you, including myself. In fact, this is a LOT of the reason MANY of us prefer to homeschool. So we want the same things, we just don't believe in the same solution.
The Chinese Buffet club! *LOL* Yes, I'd have loved that club. However, I know MANY schools don't have anything like that. They're cutting out music, art, etc because of money. Furthermore, there are MANY tiny schools like mine (K-12 in one building, yes a public school) that had little to no extracurriculars at all. Very restrictive.
"i get the feeling that you just want to
shelter your children from all that's horrible in the world for as long
as you can. and that's fine. but that's your decision. if you can't
be happy with your decision without belittling those who choose
otherwise, then you're just an arrogant snob."
I was overly sheltered growing up. Didn't care for it. Although I can say it did help me to keep on the straight and narrow despite a couple of my friends not always being good influences. I had strong morals & a strong desire to please my mom INSTEAD of my friends (though that desire was there too, just like with all of us). Mostly because we had a good relationship & I valued her opinions.
That said, I do NOT plan to shelter my children to the same degree that I was sheltered. However, NOT sheltering your children at all is a tragedy & often results in teenagers desperate for boundaries & with issues. One of my best friends in high school was a classic example of this with very few rules.
Furthermore, I am VERY happy with my decision. I do NOT belittle anyone for their decision. Did you not read my comments in their ENTIRETY? I do not believe I said anything to belittle anyone. Just because the pride in homeschooling I feel shows through my comments does not mean I am belittling others. It can only be taken that way if someone is NOT confident in their own choices. Not to mention, I started off acknowledging that not everyone has the time to homeschool nor the confidence to do so. I would say that is conveying UNDERSTANDING towards those who do not homeschool rather than belittling.
"i didn't need to be catered to, but perhaps some people do. for them, homeschooling is fine."
I think THIS comes across with a bit of snobbery. Insinuating that homeschoolers are somehow slower than their public school counterparts is definitely snobbish. One on one education has been PROVEN scientifically to be the BEST. So it doesn't matter if you're frickin' Einstein or have a lower than average IQ - one on one will help anyone.
Furthermore, as I cited in my comment/story - I ONLY had trouble with math. Nothing else. So I did pretty damned well in school all on my own as well, thank you. They don't let just anyone in National Honor Society.
Publicly educate your children in government run facilities if you feel that is best for you & your children. You're paying for it in taxes anyway so you may as well. More power to you. I won't belittle you or call you a bad parent. It's what my parents did because they didn't know better & they didn't have the confidence or know how to homeschool. I don't consider my mother a horrible parent for it. So don't presume to know how I feel about parents who drop their kids into public school. Again, pride & satisfaction in MY choice for MY family does NOT equal belittling others or looking down on them for their choices. I don't care how you educate your child as long as they are getting educated. I only fault a parent if they see that their child isn't doing well & they don't do their damned best to figure out why & how to change it.
I don't like this liberal conservative generalization. I am generally liberal and I am absolutely pro homeschooling. It helps meeting the children's exact needs, such as giving them time to study what they understand less well and freedom to go further and learn more in what they are good at. Can parents indoctrinate their values on them in their home-school?...yes. But they can do that anyway. They even have a right to their opinion. Teachers at schools can do it too.
I think there are certain things that every citizen should know, and teaching wrong facts should be prohibited (for example if you tell your children the aryan race was superior or something like that, when there's no proof). But the solution is not to ban homeschooling...it is to make the children do tests to see if they had their lessons in all subjects (involving stuff like if they actually learn how to read and write. ) Or make the parents do tests to see if they are capable of teaching it all ( most adults forget half of what I learned in school I think).