Thursday, 23 February 2012
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Satan's War on America
Presidential candidate Rick Santorum said in a speech a few years back that "Satan is attacking the great institution of America."
Do you think Satan is attacking the U.S.? Why or why not?
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- From: TheTheologiansCafe@xanga
- Name: Dan
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Comments (35)
I knew this looked familiar....
It seems as if Senator Santorum was using Satan as a metaphor. It only looks nutty when taken out of context.
As a cultural liberal, I disagree with the guy; but I wouldn't hold this against him.
I'm not sure Satan would really need to attack us. We seem to be drowsily plowing towards our own end anyway.
i think that if Santorum wants to talk about Satan, he should enter the priesthood. if he wants to lead a nation, he should talk about things that matter. like, you know... jobs?
is Satan hiring?
It would be nuts to think that Satan is a pacifist, a Jesus (1 Peter 5:8). It attacks everything. Should we now think science has sent Satan into exile now on Mars?
To attack a nation or country, you can just fly over and bomb it until everyone dies. But that's quite overt and I don't think Satan works that way. He looks like an angel of light... because he's sneaky like that. He works in sneaky ways. Satan isn't going to just "bomb" America till we're all in hell. Another way to bring about the destruction of a nation is to frame its leader in some false scandal, to poison its water supply, to release a plague into it, to rile the masses into violence, chaos, and riots. This way it looks less like an outward attack, against which the people would unify themselves and become stronger, and more like the destruction came from within or as a result of accidents. And this is what I think Satan is doing to America -- setting off little "accidents" or things that nobody would really blame on him directly. But he's not just doing it to America as if it's the center of the physical universe and the spiritual realm. He's doing it against any people group that takes a stand on the word of God. Not that most Americans do that, really, and that's just how Satan wants it to stay.
I think Satan does attack America, but he uses limelight Christians like Santorum to do it. He encourages them to worship tradition instead of worshiping God, and mixes the messages together so heavily that it FEELS like they're doing the right thing, when they're actually actively working towards destructive ends.
If human government was intended to legislate morality, Jesus would have been an earthly king. Santorum seems to think he knows humanity better than the Creator and can restore us or protect us from evil as the nation's president.
technically...Satan attacks the world
I think God could be the problem. If I'm wrong, tell the Bible it is as well. Why would God love Satan so much as to allow him to live for so long, while only allowing any of us such a short time on this Earth, anyway? I once had faith, but now I don't. I choose to think for myself and deal with the consequences. Besides, according to the Bible, it's too late for me anyway. It seems kind of unfair, considering it's not my fault that I wasn't raised in a church or with religious background.
@intellectprofound@xanga -
It's all about your perspective. If you're bitter or simply have something against God, of course you would feel the problem is God. If on the other hand you had no issues with God, you would have a different stance and may conclude, "WE keep satan alive." Also, for you to interpret the bible in a way that makes you conclude that it's "too late for you" shows you've interpreted it incorrectly. Believe it or not, there is an intended message in all things written (what the writer wants to say), and the message that readers conclude on their own (what people think the writer is trying to say).Some people are always afraid of the devil hiding in the bushes, in the mailbox, in the junk drawer. It's simple really...But too many of my "devoutly" Christian friends forget...
If you truly have faith, then you never have to be afraid. You are not alone.
People who seek power enjoy upsetting those who are unsure in their faith. When those people gain power, they generally use it for their own gain and without regard to the voters who elected them. After all, those people were unsure, like sheep. Those people are all too ready to outlaw bushes, mailboxes and junk drawers because THEY are the source of all evil.
The devil they need to worry about is the one running for office.
@Sky_Revery@xanga - I agree with some of the philosophies in the Bible, but not all. If I am wrong for how I feel, I will find out on the other side. There is light and dark in everything I see as far as humans go. I once believed that there was a positive reason for me surviving 3 out of 4 overdose attempts without medical attention. Maybe my depressive state of mind is getting the better of me, but I feel like the only reason I survived any of my suicide attempts was so that I could continue to be punished for being me. I'm no longer afraid of the devil, if he is real, or God, except if the lightning in a storm comes too close for comfort. Since I know that I will never be able to stop "sinning", or be forgiven for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, I choose to embrace myself instead of hating me. The concept of God is different to me than to Christians. If I am wrong, I will pay for it. If you love your God, then by all means serve him to the best of your ability. There is nothing wrong with that. I just view things differently. I know I offend people with my point of view, but it is who I am from all of my own experiences.
@beesuze@xanga - all of the devils running for office, right?
The devil has been the scapegoat and the subject of numerous public figures desperately seeking to connect with Americans. The fact that it works speaks volumes as to how far America has "devolved" into being afraid of the dark.
I think a comment like that would have been effective in Salem years ago but in modern society, I am surprised that it even causes the occasional raised eyebrow.
Aleister Nacht
I think that Satan is just an excuse to justify human misdeeds. Not sure of how I feel about that...
Rick Santorum, digging your grave deeper for the chance at nomination. First you declare women ineligible for the military, then you say Satan is attacking America (when in reality Satan is really luring us away, man is doing all the damage), man is attacking America they do what they have done to all nations and empires, it's a cycle of destruction where they get pretty far and then they force the nation to collapse! Satan's power here on earth is truly about as limited as God's is, they can merely plant seeds or traps along the way; we can embrace the seed or rue the trap's effects. Satan preys on man's primal nature, God encourages man's divine instinct.
Oh not to forget, Rick Santorum needs serious reminder... SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!
@intellectprofound@xanga -
[QUOTE]"I think God could be the problem. If I'm wrong, tell the Bible it is as well. Why would God love Satan so much as to allow him to live for so long, while only allowing any of us such a short time on this Earth, anyway?"Firstly, you greatly misunderstand historical biblical-theology. Your statement shows no understanding of the reason why a sovereign God still allows evil to exist in this world. You also underestimate the nature of Satan if you're comparing him (one of long-life) to us humans (ones of short-life). There is a whole body of literature by people more intellectually profound than you and me COMBINED that answer this very fundamental and important question.
If you seek a short, and (perhaps) concise explanation, you only need to read Genesis 50:20: "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive". This is a quote from Joseph, who was sold to merchants by his own brothers, falsely accused of rape, and jailed for a long time. So many evil things happened to him, but in the end, all of it worked out for God's good purpose, by his sovereignty. A supplementary verse in the New Testament comes from Romans 8:28: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose".
The question of whether God loves Satan is a no-brainer. God banished Satan from heaven as the result of His divine justice and (consequent) wrath against Satan. There is no love for Satan, at least no love for Satan that is of the same intensity or nature as God's love for his children. The reason why Satan is still around is because God is using his existence to forward his good plan of salvation. This goes back to those verses I provided above. Satan's activity is very crucial in Jesus' ministry and, more importantly, his death on the cross. To give a prime example, Judas' betrayal was a result of Satan's influence.
Reality is far beyond mere human perceptions. This is why the Bible exists; to give light to that which is not seen.
[QUOTE]"I once had faith, but now I don't. I choose to think for myself and deal with the consequences. Besides, according to the Bible, it's too late for me anyway. It seems kind of unfair, considering it's not my fault that I wasn't raised in a church or with religious background."
Firstly, I don't believe you had any true, driven faith. True faith would move you toward learning these "simple" truths about God and would cause you to be more reverent toward him. Instead, you elevated yourself above God and called his decrees "unfair" in relation to the circumstance of your life as though your life was the very center of reality with all its laws, scientific and moral. Does a creation have right to call his creator "unfair"? If you were truly a profound thinker, this is not difficult to understand.
I don't understand where you get this notion that being raised in a church or having a religious background is a prerequisite to faith and being a Christian. There's no Bible verse that says that. I know countless Christians who did not grow up in a church, and they are people of greater faith than mine, even though I actually did grow up in a religious home.
Lastly, don't count yourself out of being "savable". I once left the church and the Christian faith to embrace an intellectual agnosticism, yet came back only three years ago. God still had mercy upon me and I'm a growing Christian today. I know you're referring to that passage in Hebrews that says that one who once were enlightened, have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were partakers of the Holy Spirit, are no longer able to come back if they fell away (Hebrews 6:4-6). I met someone who used to be a missionary and strong member of his church who fell away into a life of utter lust, and he was strongly resistant to the call of the gospel. You don't seem to be of a like manner, though I don't know you. I still would call you to believe in the gospel; that Christ came to die to fully pay the price for the sins of all who would repent and have faith in Jesus' finished work in his death and resurrection.
@aleisternacht@xanga - Interesting concept. I made my last comment because people can be evil hypocrites while claiming Christian faith. I know because I am surrounded by people like that in the neighborhood. Perhaps you should run for President. I would probably vote for you before them.
@falsethreats@xanga - I am an intellect despite your insults. I do NOT think I am the center of the universe either. Thank you very much. Your judgement of me proves why I will no longer follow the faith. For a peoples that are not supposed to judge, that's all any of the Christians that I have met have ever done. Hypocrisy is rampid in this world. Fix your own perceptions on what your faith is supposed to entail befoe passing judgement on mine. You can believe what you want, and I will believe what I want.
@intellectprofound@xanga
There is a great big difference between criticism and insulting. The former is an honest analysis of someone else's actions, words, etc. The latter is a straight-up ad hominem that is (1) based on nothing factual and (b) intends to accomplish nothing but make the other person angry for one's own selfish enjoyment at that person's expense. Although I admit I come off as harsh, my intention here is not to insult you, but to shed light on your questions and your opinion as well as to challenge your claim to being an intellectual. That's not an insult; this kind of thing is precisely what happens in a marketplace of ideas like the internet. More importantly, I'm trying to inform you that your opinion isn't based on any orthodox or right understanding of what the Scriptures teach. That's not opinion based; your words truly show that you don't have a right understanding of Christianity.
This is far from being an insult, and actually the fact that you're being awfully defensive about this suggests that you don't take this kind of criticism very well. You may take that as an insult, but I'm just trying to be honest and helpful. This is suppose to be for your own self-reflection and benefit.
Rather, if there is something I still must criticize about your response is that you give no defense (different from being "defensive") against my challenges. All you've done is paint me as a judgmental hypocrite, and place the focus away from yourself and my questions to you. Being judgmental, as our culture would probably define it, is judging someone based on nothing but one's biases and perceptions. That's absolutely not true with what I'm doing. I'm taking you by your word. Your words are an expression of your character, and they say A LOT about your character, even if they're only a paragraph long. I'm calling you out on your own words and nothing else. Yes, my challenges to your previous faith and of your elevating yourself above God hang entirely on your words.
If I'm wrong about that, I'm not too arrogant to not admit or accept it. Just call me out on it, and give sufficient evidences. If you are truly an intellectual, show your intellectual side, and engage me in a debate or discussion rather than simply and solely dismiss me as a hypocrite (which is definitely NOT what an intellectual does).
do you ever think that satan is just an idea, rather than an actual being, representing mankind's tendency to do wrong? i mean, none of us knew any of the guys writing the bible, so we don't know what was meant to be taken literally and what was just an attempt to explain things they didn't fully understand.
@falsethreats@xanga - you're starting to sound less like you're trying to glorify god by helping someone and more like you're trying to glorify yourself by proving your intellect to be superior.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT@xanga -
I admit that I struggle at times with using intellect to feel superior, but I don't think that what I'm doing here is trying to prove my intellect. Rather, I'm trying to prove that this isn't an act of false judgment and hypocrisy, as I'm being accused of doing and being.
@Orlei@xanga - I think you should feel fantastic! You have seen the truth and reality of good vs. bad. Satan is always blamed but it is not Satan who makes a person do anything.
@falsethreats@xanga - I believe you are the perfect example of the "holier than thou" so called christian s that people have come to fear and distrust. You are simply the member of a bloody cult that goes back centuries that believe that if you telepathically accept a Jewish ZOMBIE as you master that he will allow you to live forever by removing an evil force from you so called "soul" put there because a talking snake told a ribless women to eat fruit from a magical tree!!! Do you REALLY wonder why people do not buy in to your bloody - and useless - beliefs in magic and mysticism??