Thursday, 16 February 2012
-
Atheists Who Give: Are They Morally Superior?
A few years back a group of friends and I were having a discussion late at night. It was one of those 3:00am discussions involving coffee, beer and philosophy. My friends were mostly Christian intellectuals, the kinds who worshipped C.S. Lewis and earnestly dissected the historical differences of Catholicism, Protestantism, Lutheranism and the modern Christian Evangelical movement.
During this discussion my friend "Stephen" set down his espresso doubleshot, rubbed his eyes and said "Y'know....."
He hesitated, like he wasn't sure about the wisdom of his current train of thought.
"What?"
"Well," Stephen continued, "I sometimes wonder if atheistic altruists aren't morally superior to Christian altruists. Like, maybe an atheist who does a lot of good is more likely to get into Heaven than a Christian who does a lot of good."
"How so?" I asked
"Think about it," Stephen continued, "An atheist thinks that he came from the Void and will return to the Void after death. Whether he does good or just sits on the couch watching 'Clone Wars' the end result of his life will be the same. It follows then that when an atheist does good, he does it only to end human suffering. His motivations are pure, unalloyed kindness. A Christian has motivations of kindness and a desire to end suffering too... but I think every Christian also has a secret hope that G-d is watching and nodding His head in approval, putting another check mark in the 'ticket to Heaven' column. Only an atheistic charity worker has purely good motivations- free from selfish desires."
"That's a bit harsh," I said, "I mean, sure, there are some Christian charity workers who may be doing it solely to try to get to heaven. There are all kinds. Another way to look at it would be that Christian charity workers have greater peace of mind than atheistic charity workers. They know that their work will be rewarded. Plus Christian charity workers do a better job in situations where there is death, in my opinion. Like in Haiti, where so many children died from injuries and cholera. A Christian charity worker can provide better comfort to a grieving mother. 'You're child is now in the arms of Jesus... happy and smiling and free from pain.' What can an atheistic charity worker say? 'Well, your kid's gone. You can have more though, don't worry.' Leaving aside motivation I think Christian charity workers generally do a better job than atheistic charity workers."
"Oh come on," Stephen said, "I'm sure that an atheistic charity work would have a more compassionate attitude towards a grieving mother than 'whelp, you're kid's gone. Nothing we can do about it now.'"
"Maybe," I said, "But an atheistic charity worker would be less successful about spiritual ease in terms of accepting a child's death than a Christian charity worker in my opinion... and easing mental burdens in the face of death is a HUGE part of foreign aid and charity work."
Still, Stephen's remarks about atheistic charity workers having purer motivations than Christian charity workers still sticks with me to this day.
What do you think? Are atheistic charity workers more morally pure than Christian charity workers? How large a role does motivation play when it comes to acts of kindness?
RecommendRelated Posts
Post a Comment
- Back to revelife's Revelife Site!
- Note: your comment will appear in revelife's local time zone: GMT -05:00 (Eastern Standard - US, Canada)
About the Author
-
- From: oneshotblogger@momaroo
Stats: This Week All Time Posts: 0 1 Views: 0 3272 Comments: 0 62 View all posts by oneshotblogger@momaroo
Comments (62)
Charity is a virtue. It makes no difference whether the virtue is possessed by an atheist or a Christian since Christian doctrine holds that we cannot earn our way into heaven.
Are atheistic charity workers more morally pure than Christian charity workers?
It's a moot question relative to Christianity. The bible says we are all sinners and none of us are morally good enough to go to heaven, which is why we needed Jesus to die for our sins.
As a Christian, it seems to me that the atheist who does charitable work in the hope of ending the suffering of their fellow man and the Christian who does the same for the same are both serving God, the difference being one of them knows it and the other denies it.
"Amen, I say to you, tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you." (Matt. 21:31)
Are atheists morally superior to those Christians who do the same work in the hopes that their Father who sees in secret will approve? I suppose that depends; are they doing charitable work for fear of being denied heaven, or are they doing such work because they love their Father and they desire to be, truly, His child? If out of fear then I would say yes, the atheist is really doing the work in a greater spirit of selfless love than the Christian since, really, the Christian is doing the work not for the suffering or for God, but for himself. But if the Christian is doing the work for love of God because such work is naturally what a child of God does, then I think the Christian is superior to the atheist simply because they are doing their work in closer proximity to the Truth (the ultimate moral superiority) and not in ignorance or denial of the Truth.
If an atheist really believes we emerged from the Void (a tricky claim since "nothing" comes from "nothing" and human beings clearly aren't "nothing"), wouldn't the same atheist see his humanitarian efforts as utterly futile, since his efforts ultimately end up dissipating in the Void that somehow produces us and then consumes us?
I actually agree with the priest!
What is this, some kind of competition?
I stopped reading after the "you're" error. It's "Your child is in the arms of Jesus."
I agree with the priest also. There are those out there who give to charity for the wrong reasons but if you are a person who is cheritable out of the goodness of your heart and you're doing it for no other purpose than to know that you are helping ease the suffering of another human being's soul, then it doesn't matter at all what religion you are. The atheist is just as moral as the christian who is doing the exact same thing. This isn't something that can be defined by religious preference, rather it's a judgement of ones character.
When it comes to motivation, I think that differs from person to person. Some are motivated by greed, I.e. tax deductions, and some are motivated by the right reasons, I.e taking joy in gIving joy to others for no other reason than it's the right thing to do. Obviously you have to be moved to do something so charitable as helping in Haiti or providing relief in a foreign country, and in my opinion whatever the reason behind the motivation is, that doesnt affect how big of a role the motivation makes to do these acts of kindness. We all have to be motivated to do something like that, but motivation alone isn't what makes us do the things we do, it's that we made the CHOICE to STAY motivated. And is what plays the most important role of all, each and every choice that we choose to make. Only the morality of the situation depends on why you made that choice, and you don't have to be of any particular religion to make a good or a bad one.
Just my thoughts on this. Basically, morality to me is based on ones character, not ones religion.
Charity is a virtue.If an atheist really believes we emerged from the Void (a tricky claim since "nothing" comes from "nothing" and human beings clearly aren't "nothing"), wouldn't the same atheist see his humanitarian efforts as utterly futile, since his efforts ultimately end up dissipating in the Void that somehow produces us and then consumes us?Jewelry cards
Metal labelsFabric labelsZip PullersBarcode labelsShoes hangersMetal buttonsJewelry tagsSize hangersshoes hooksSo...do you think the majority of atheists have no compassion or tact? There *are* those who would prefer not to hear that their child is in a better place and take no comfort from that.
As for your question, I don't think atheists are morally superior, because I don't think any group who unselfishly does good deeds is better than another. There's no need for competition.
It's the same for either side. It's like saying atheist are bad people and are expected to do bad deeds. I am christian, but I do good deeds because it feels good to me. I'm not trying to please God with my actions. I have simply learned that doing good deeds feels better than doing bad deeds. That's all really.
I wouldn't go to say it's more morally pure than Christian charity work. Hmm...wonderful blog. Made me think. I normally don't come to revelife but this one is great.
Your response to your friend was not even a direct response at all.
Friend: "Are altruistic Atheists morally superior to altruistic Christians?"
You: "Well Atheists are less effective."
Personally, I find comfort in the truth. What's wrong with the void? A suffering child is no longer suffering, and neither should you. This is what I would tell the mother.
I do think religious motivation such as Heaven and good fortune to do
good deeds is better than no motivation, and no work done. Many
otherwise sociopathic criminals have become "good" people by virtue of
such beliefs. Regardless of WHY you're doing it, the effects of
charitable acts are what really matter.
I do not know if I feel at liberty to directly answer this question but I do think that religious people may undermine the natural human capacity for kindness and compassion. Mine comes not from God, but from my biological makeup and free will. I care about animal and human suffering because I empathize with it when I see it. By empathizing with it, I feel it as well, which motivates me to to not want to see another suffer any more than I would want to experience it, myself. I don't need a supernatural omniscience to carry that burden.
On a similar note, rats in human test labs have shown altruistic behavior towards one another. I don't think I'm venturing out on a limb to assume they don't follow intricately designed religions such as Christianity.
Do you think altruistic rats are morally superior to you?
Considering you never directly addressed the answer in the first place, do YOU think Atheists who practice selflessness are superior to Christians who do? If not, why not?
@Ancient_Scribe@xanga - To
answer your ending question, that's an extremely negative way to think.
On the same token, what would be the point of charitable works by Christians and other religious individuals if this life were so transient and meaningless and they were all going to go to heaven anyway?
Though I'm sure some Atheists not feel compelled due to the "void", I know that I don't, and I
am pretty sure neither do most. The point isn't to focus on death, but
to focus on life, and to eliminate suffering through life. I do not see
"the void" as a negative thing. Have you ever been under anesthesia?
It's not something you will be aware of, and thus it will not bother
you. Being bothered or overwhelmed by it before it happens is futile,
and shouldn't be dwelled upon.
Also, humans do not come from nothing.
You assume the atheist would be unwilling to comfort a mother by following her lead in her beliefs. It may be that an atheist is more likely or willing to say that the child is now comfortable in heaven, if the mother seems to believe so.
Charitable works aren't very charitable if you are only doing them to "obey God" and "get into heaven". Then you are actually serving yourself and passing if off as being morally superior.
Since this is a debate question and not really a determination of who is morally superior, my answer is that the morally superior is the one doing the good deeds for the benefit of the other, not himself. And that in the end, there is no way to prove who that is. The Christian could be doing it just to get into heaven and the atheist could be doing it just to feel better about himself (possibly even his reasons are to prove atheists are better than Christians). At any rate, who cares? So long as they help they provide works, only God will know the real reason they help.
@Ancient_Scribe@xanga - Not all atheists are about "denying or ignoring the truth", some atheists have simply come to a different conclusion. And I don't believe that actually annoys God all that much. It's one thing to deny God in the face of anger or feeling as if one has been let down by God (I know a lot of atheists like this) and another to look at everything see importance in being moral (morality throughout cultures has so many similarities) but simply doesn't believe the "God concept" makes sense.
But, another things is even an atheist-doing-charity-work's motivation can't be perfect because there will be people who appriciate them for doing it and say "wow, that's a good person."
i love how everything is divided along the lines of religion now. charity work is charity work. a selfless act done by one to aid another. being a christian or an athiest shouldnt matter when it comes to helping a fellow human.
they are!
@LeeLeeLynn@xanga - @LadyboyRevolution@xanga - @Ancient_Scribe@xanga -
He's not a priest. He's a very naughty boy.
The difference between a believer and a non-believer is belief. Belief is an amoral attitude. Therefore, their comparative goodness can only be surmised by their actions.
@LadyboyRevolution@xanga -
Five more years before ordination, though!
We are all human, and we all have minds. People all have their reasons for doing things. In regards to charity work, it shouldn't matter why. They are making a positive environment for others, and really.. that's all that counts.
I find it strange that the idea of spiritual comfort came up. What if the mother isn't a Christian? Would the Christian be willing to comfort her within her own spiritual beliefs, or just rant about a Jesus she doesn't know? I find it possible that a Christian would use the death of the child as a way to convert the mother. It's a cruel thing to do, but possible. An atheist, one who has come to that point through study and observation, might be empathetic enough to comfort the woman as she needs to be.
Is this seriously how you view Atheists? I mean, are you being for real?
@tarotbutterfly@xanga - Yeah. What if the mother is Muslim? It's awfully arrogant to assume all the victims they'd be helping would be Chrisitans.