@MyTwoCentss@xanga - It's wonderful that you've never felt that way. Other women, however, have noticed the imbalance of power and respect within the church and it had affected them deeply. People have a way of internalizing things like:

* Women being deemed unworthy to approach an altar

* Women being deemed unworthy to serve as clergy

* Women being deemed unworthy to teach

Then there's the most damaging lie of all; that woman in general is responsible for unleashing evil on the world and creating a generational sin. You are still paying for this, you know. All christian women are, in terms of how the church views you, suppresses your voices and denies you the ability to use your own unique spiritual gifts.

Some women are able to accept their status as second class citizens, some are not.

I see that take on Christianity a lot. The idea that it is a misogynistic faith of some sort. While I hear it said  I can only notice that it is not woman who are avoiding or leaving the churches. It is the men who are missing. I do not see us woman having any issues with a male savor, or the evils of our so called misogynistic faith. But something is chasing the men off

@MyTwoCentss@xanga - I was christian for a very long time, and I myself felt the imbalance. It's impossible for a woman to use her natural spiritual gifts when she is constantly told she isn't fit to teach or speak. If she isn't worthy to approach the altar, how can a woman consider herself an important and vital part of the church? There are so many things that are forbidden to women and to be honest, it makes me angry at christianity for crushing women's spirits underfoot and denying our special gifts and abilities, and it makes me feel very sorry for women that stay within it. 

I'm not trying to be mean and I appreciate you understanding that, I have genuine sympathy for women in the Abrahamic religions who are constantly having their creativity and sense of self demolished by a system that negates them. It makes me sad, is all.  

@ZombieMom_Speaks@xanga - @MyTwoCentss@xanga - It may have more to do with a person's definition of what is important, or more important. Today, I think a lot of people think that equality must mean everything the same physically, instead of actually that all PEOPLE (not what they DO) are equal. Feminists today *claim* that they believe women are equal to men, but what they seem to mean is that a woman is not actually equal unless she *does* all the things a man [traditionally] would do. But in reality, if we are all equal, then the only things that would affect your value that you do would have more to do with character than what your job is. You can be behind the scenes caring for the children, and not out front getting all the glory, yet still have the same value. It is such a shame that our society has placed so much more value on traditionally male roles, and decided that the traditionally female roles are demeaning. And then turn around and tell us at the same time that we should not label or box people in. I guess what it really means is as long as you are in the correct box. And that box is that things such as tending the children, cooking, cleaning must be demeaning and beneath those who believe themselves to be "equal". Therefore, whoever chooses to do those things instead of craving the praise of the spotlight has, "accepted their status as second class citizens". As if we need the clarity of that pointed out to us, since all this time we thought that everyone had value. Who is saying that you must fit a standard before you actually have value here?

 @mtngirlsouth@xanga - No disagreement here on the fanatical beliefs of some feminists. OMG - don't get me started. The rabid ones give the rest of us a bad name, seriously.

To me, feminism is about equal rights, getting the paid the same as a man for the same work, understanding you're worth as much as any man regardless of your choices, and understanding that having a family doesn't mean you've forfeited your feminist views. Having a family is a choice too. It doesn't mean having to practically become a man in order to consider yourself a feminist and prove yourself to the world (and becoming a misandrist assclown in the process). Too many women take it there and it's really frustrating to those of us who are able to embrace feminism and still maintain our perspective.

You didn't come across as harsh at all.

@mtngirlsouth@xanga - @MyTwoCentss@xanga -

I do personally find christianity to be largely misogynistic in it's view that woman is inferior to man and in it's active effort to silence, weaken and demean a woman's contributions, or prohibit her from making any at all. Several years ago I read a book when I was trying to go back to christianity that deals with how scripture is used against women. I wasn't successful in returning to christianity (too much bad water under the bridge and absolutely no faith in it), but I do recommend the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Lies-Church-Tells-Women/dp/0884197379

This is not a feminist, misandrist manifesto; it's actually a well thought out, well written book meant to empower women to do what they are called to do in their own faith.

@ZombieMom_Speaks@xanga - Well, I would like to point out that I have never even been in a church where women were not allowed to go to the alter or teach. I have seen where they were not allowed to preach, but in those churches I never felt that it meant women were somehow less. It was just the way they did things. (I *don't* think they are right, since the Bible said in Joel and repeated it in Acts - proving that that  means this time - that "your sons and daughters will prophecy")

I have never looked at the position as leader or head of the household as somehow first class, putting me second class. Those positions are not about power so much as responsibility. And I am relieved to not be accountable to God for all those those positions are accountable for. 

I was thinking about doing a blog about what second class people are to me. And it has nothing to do with position in society or the church or anything like that - largely because those kinds of things are3out of a persons control. In my mind what makes someone "second class" or "Less than equal" has everything to do with their own character, which they are the sole controlling factor of. Are they unjust in all their ways? Are they cruel to the innocent? Or worse, do they take pleasure in the pain of others? Then they are second class. Are they compassionate? Are they just? Then they are first class. Extra points if they are willing to sacrifice their own happiness for the welfare of others. I honestly believe this is how God judges, and His opinion trumps all others. So, sometimes (most times actually, in my experience) that garbage man or septic pump guy is a much better person than that senator. 

@mtngirlsouth@xanga - Sam, I could not agree with you more.  Seriously.  You worded some of the ideas I was trying to convey a bit better than I did. 

And to be honest, I feel bad for the men.  Some of them love their kids & want to be home with them to raise them.  Yet they're expected to work & frowned upon being a SAHD.  Or because they'll make more money they can't be the SAH parent.  I am lucky that I get to raise my children & see every milestone.  I'm contributing to society's future by raising my children & there is nothing more important than that.  So there's no way in hades that I see a traditional "female" roll as being second class. 

@MyTwoCentss@xanga - 

@mtngirlsouth@xanga - 

As there is neither male nor female in heaven,..it doesn't matter that Christ, The Savior,..came as a male to our world.

I'm not sure the things Jesus taught were so masculine.  However, I think Mohammed may have been more understanding of women, I believe he would wash dishes with his wives or something like they would find him doing "women chores" something like that.

To me, as a Christian I figured either God was a sexist man or the writers of the Bible were sexist.  Perhaps a combination of both.  God may have created Adam in his own image, but He didn't pull the blueprint of Eve out of thin air.  I believe there's probably a wife to God.  There's some ancient traditions that mention that, but a male dominated society would prefer to squash all traces of that.  Asherah, God's wife was probably removed by men.

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - Paul was a raging misogynist, and unfortunately, so was King James, which is why there's such a hateful slant toward male supriority in the bible. According to biblical scholars, though, there actually was a christian Goddess, who was called Sophia (wisdom), but she was removed from the text long ago. There's actually still a hint of her here and there, most notably in Genesis when it uses the plural form (we) to describe the creator(s) of the heavens and the earth.

They removed their Goddess from the text and demoted Christ's most trusted and beloved friend (Mary Magdalene, who was not only not a whore, but quite possibly Jesus' wife, deemed unworthy to take on the leadership role Jesus wanted for her after his death because she was a woman) to a whore, and women wonder why christianity leans the balance of power in favor of men. 

The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi give so much more of the truth than the bible does when it comes to jewish/pre-christian history and Jesus' life, but in order to maintain the male power structure most denominations have labeled them heretical. Those scrolls were also purposefully hidden. Knowing that should make most christians think about the motivation for it, but they don't. They accept what their pastors tell them and go on about their lives only knowing half of the story.  Then they get angry and accuse people of reading too much Dan Brown (The DaVinci Code) when it's brought up. I've had that happen here, by people who have never even picked up a copy of either book to see for themselves.

This makes no sense to me at all. Shouldn't people who structure their entire lives around this belief system care about and have an interest in the actual historical truth of it?