Wednesday, 04 January 2012
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As One Flesh: I've Become a Christian, but My Husband is Agnostic
I'm at odds with myself. My husband has been an agnostic ever since he came home from Iraq the first time; he's been twice. He's told me that he believes in a higher power but not organized religion. So during this whole research and conversion I've been going through, I've been keeping to myself. I try to explain things as I go along or if he seems interested, but I've tried not to be too pushy. I figured as long as he wasn't giving me heck about it, which he wouldn't do anyway, I would just have to be contented with that. A couple weeks ago, he told me that he wanted to start learning about what I believe and trying to understand things. I was excited but pretty nervous. I didn't know where to start. I didn't know what direction to go in because I was afraid of laying it on too thick and scaring him away. So I've just been answering questions as he's had them but not really going in any kind of direction. He's asked about having lessons and I haven't really had the time to sit and consider where to start. I'm afraid that he's going to think that I don't want to teach him or share, even though that's not the case.
I've been studying the woman's role in Judaism, which is far less oppressive than some Christian factions. Women are viewed as being separate but equal -- so much for the submission factor, huh? From what I've read about traditional Judaism, women were given a greater sense of intuition than men when we were built. The more traditional role of the woman is as a wife and mother -- not being sexist here, our modern society just sees things differently now than they did then -- but the woman wasn't just that. She's the spiritual influence of the household. There's even a marriage contract (the ketubah) of a Rabbi's son that says the wife is obligated to teach her husband Torah. I'm assuming that's because even though there are many duties in the household and while raising children, women at home can find more moments during the day to study Torah while the husband is often away at work. So, as spiritual head of our household, it's MY responsibility to teach my husband and children Torah, especially since I'm the only one who is actually doing any studying.
That said, here is where I feel at odds:
"I know, and am persuaded by the Messiah Yahshua, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men." Romans 14:14
If he isn't actually considering certain things to be sinful, than for him, it isn't.
"And he that doubted is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Romans 14:23
So, if he's going along with me and what I'm doing as far as religion goes but he isn't doing it out of faith and obedience to that faith, then he's sinning. And I'm sinning for "making" him do things that aren't of his faith. Does that make sense? For him to be just going along with it, participating without being faithful, that's wrong. Right? Would it be better for him to stay as he is? Maybe that's why I haven't known where to start with lessons, I've been spiritually gagged until I talk with him about it. Since we are married, we are as one flesh.
"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Genesis 2:24
Therefore: "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." 1 Corinthians 7:14 One time when I told him of this verse, he said "Thank God I've got you, I'd be pretty lost otherwise."
I guess I need to have a long talk with him concerning just where he is exactly in his faith. Because I've come to the conclusion that I can teach him what he wants to know, but he doesn't need to be doing any of it unless he is doing it out of faith. My works and obedience are sufficient to cover him in his lack of faith, as we are one flesh.
What are your thoughts on this? And do you have any suggestions on where to start with lessons? There's a lot more to learn in Judaism than Christianity and I want to make sure that I do a good job teaching my family. The children are easier, they just enjoy whatever we are doing and they'll be so used to it that by the time they are older, it will all make sense. It's more difficult to teach an adult. Of course he's got a basic understanding of what's covered by most Christian churches. Which means there's also going to be a fair amount of UN-learning going on as well.
When I was learning, I just kind of studied whatever someone was talking about online. As far as the Feasts, I learned about them as we came to them and it took me four years of studying to even feel brave enough to participate. It was a lot of jumping around at first so I can't even go by that because I don't want to confuse him any more than he already is.
Have you ever experienced this or known someone who has converted to Christianity before his or her spouse? What can a wife do to help her husband experience the gospels? What resources might she use to help him learn?
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- From: greene_lily@xanga
- About Me: I'm a stay-at-home mom of two small children, a cat named Only, and a score of fish. I'm happily married to my high school sweetheart, celebrating 10 years of friendship and love. We're expecting a baby girl in January 2013. I love to sing, dance, and learn about old-school home keeping methods. We're into homeschooling, homesteading, and learning about Messianic Judaism. I'm a little strange and enjoy a bit of weirdness every now and again. Hope we'll hit it off and find something in common!
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Comments (49)
My husband has been an agnostic ...He's told me that he believes in a
higher power"
What the hell... why do Christians consistently mis-define agnosticism to suddenly include what they believe! Agnostics do NOT believe in a higher power... if you do, you're not an agnostic... An agnostic believes that "the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable."
Sheesh.
As for your question... convert him to your religion, and God will reward you in the afterlife. Plus, you don't want to live with a sinner, now do you?
"And he that doubted is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Romans 14:23
So, if he's going along with me and what I'm doing as far as religion goes but he isn't doing it out of faith and obedience to that faith, then he's sinning.
No he's not. That verse is speaking to believers. Your husband is not a believer but is seeking and asking questions. Also, I'm a little confused. Are you Jewish, a Christian, or both?
I became a Born-Again believer well before my husband did. He always supported my journey and is now on the same path as I. The thing to remember is to always come from a place of LOVE. We we do this, the rest seems to fall into place.
Blessings on your continued journey. :)
Where to start...
Sigh. Alright. Let's make the definition of agnosticism a bit more clear.
Agnostics
might say, "I don't know if there is a higher power/deity." OR "I can't
know whether or not there is a higher power/deity." OR both of those.
Deists might say, "There is a higher power/deity, but I don't/can't have a personal relationship with that deity."
Theists might say, "There is a higher power/deity, and I do/can have a personal relationship with that deity."
Your husband is either a deist or a theist, but definitely not an agnostic.
Now
that we have that straight, do you belong to a Messianic Jewish
congregation that practices Torah observance? Because that's the
distinct impression I'm getting.
And if you are, the process is
going to be very confusing for him regardless of how well you catechize
him. Such is the nature of modern syncretic religions.
I heard the Alpha Courses are really good for bible studies :)
this is why i'm glad me and my partner are both atheist. no convoluted worries about mysterious sky creatures accepting our offerings of thoughts and letting us into his sky palace.
I am so glad I married a man who shares my beliefs.
Marriage is not easy to begin with, why on earth would you ad the controversy of religion on top of it?
@TheMushyPear@xanga - @Nous_Apeiron@xanga We heard the definition of what an agnostic was on a radio talk show, so I suppose they had it wrong too. Probably I should have looked it up, but whatever, the name doesn't matter. He believes that there is a higher power but he hasn't been fond of organized religion. As for living with a sinner, we're all sinners so I'm not really concerned with that.
@musterion99@xanga - I consider myself a Messianic Jew. I keep the Laws of the OT and the teachings of Yahshua. Although I'm not actually Jewish, because I'm not of the culture.
@Got_Claws@xanga - Thank you, that's the ONE helpful reply I've gotten from this whole thing. Have you ever gone to www.torahclass.com? It's a really great way to really study scripture, very in-depth.
@LadyGwenivere@xanga - I've been married for 9 years. When I first met my husband, we were 16. He was religious while I was not. Then over the years things have tipped in the opposite direction. After he was deployed to Iraq twice, he decided he didn't care much for religion, while I was headed into a huge religious research project. Now I'm a Messianic Jew and he's just not really very religious at all. People change. Something may happen in the course of your marriage that changes your or your husband's views. PS- other than this, my marriage IS easy. Thanks for your input.
@vain_apathy@xanga - thanks for your help.
@TigersLovePepper@xanga - thanks for the support. At least someone on here understands that people change. I'm just approaching this at his pace, kind of winging it as I go along. :)
@greene_lily@xanga - we've been married for 7 yrs.. and battling infertility (among other things) this whole time. If something could cause one to stop believing, being unable to have a baby is definitely high up on that list. I am thankful that we have had eachother, and our shared faith, to keep us strong..
and I do understand how people can change, but you can chose to take those tough times and make your faith stronger.
@greene_lily@xanga -
I keep the Laws of the OT
You keep all the laws? Do you believe adulterers and homosexuals should be stoned to death according to the law? Do you do any kind of work on the Sabbath? Do you wear any clothes made of mixed fibers? Do you know how many different laws are in the O.T.?
First of all, your husband is not Agnostic. Agnostics acknowledge that they don't know whether God exists. (To contrast, Atheists technically believe that God absolutely does or cannot exist, though many Agnostics consider themselves Atheists). In very simple terms, your husband is a theist (one who believes in at least one deity's existence). Hence Atheism is one who is NOT a theist.
Since your husband does acknowledge the existence of a God but perhaps just abhors the inherent corruption that comes with organized religion (or any hierarchical group of people). Perhaps it would be helpful to you to find common ground with him. Maybe you can read the bible together and see what appeals to him. Find where he agrees and disagrees and engage in an honest discussion about how each of you feel. A bad idea might be to pressure him into coming with you to church, since he does not like organized religion. Compromise, empathy, and patience is key. Hopefully you two will at least end up on the same journey together.
@vain_apathy@xanga - Same here! I was going to say the same thing.
It is hard for anybody who has been involved in a war to believe in a God who is all merciful.
@musterion99@xanga -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
613... it's says on her husband's tseettseet (sp?) if he wears one. Or hers if she does. I'm jewish but I don't follow the rules. Meh.
@greene_lily@xanga - TAG. alright, hello again. I would see if there is a book about your religion's theroy that you can give him. I know we have several around my house about modern jewdism/ more traditional, but I'm not sure if you'll be able to find any.
You could allow him to lead the pasover service or something, get him involved.(still I think it's weird that you love jesus)
@splinter1591@xanga - Thanks. I was wondering how many there were.
Romans 14:14 isn't communicating that sin is relative. What is and is not sin is not dependent upon an individual's beliefs. Paul is referring to a specific situation in which Christians are in dispute because some are formally Jewish and some are formally pagans. Some of the Christians in Rome believed the Law of Torah must still be lived out while other's felt they were free from it's demands (which Paul would agree with). Paul is saying that if some Christians decide to continue living out the Law that is acceptable and they should commit to it fully and those who do not follow the law should be humble in fellowship, not doing what the others would see as sinful so as to keep the peace and thus serve Christ. In doing this, both should honor one another, not judging the decision to follow or not follow the ancient Jewish practices (v. 13-18).
The dispute was predominantly rooted in dietary restrictions. Paul is saying that "All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble." In other words, don't do anything that causes someone else to go against their righteous commitments to God and sin, doing what they know they ought not to do. If that means sacrificing some luxuries one enjoys then so be it, loving one another is better than getting what one wants for the self. We must live in our commitments to God, doing everything honestly in faith (v. 19-23).
As for the matter of sanctifying the husband, we must remember that sanctification is a process. Through time, living with the Christian spouse, the unbelieving spouse will be drawn closer to God, sanctified because of the believing spouse who has loved them and shown them the way of Christ. The unbelieving spouse is not saved through the believing spouse for in verse 16 Paul states, "How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?" The future is unknown but the hope is salvation and sanctification for the unbelieving spouse. That is why Paul teaches the Christian to remain with the unbelieving spouse, so that they might be saved. Marriage doesn't act as a loophole for salvation. Paul is simply saying that "each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them" (v.17).
It's good that he is asking questions. Don't be afraid to be up front and honest about your pursuit of God. Perhaps you could listen to sermons or read commentaries together, learning what scripture says from wise teachers. You don't have to have perfect answers for him. Do the best you can and love him with all of your being in humbleness. Convince him of Christ's love through loving him as Christ has loved you and seek wise counsel from leaders in your congregation as you do so! Be encouraged! You're in an exciting place.
@TheMushyPear@xanga - LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
@splinter1591@xanga - Dear Splinter, thank you so much for not arguing with me, although it was interesting and enlightening before. It's just easier to say "messianic jew" than to have to go into a long explanation every single time. That's slightly misleading, as you know, since I'm not of the culture, but I do appreciate your advice. :) (and I still think it's weird you don't.....LOL)
@LadyGwenivere@xanga - You are very right, tough times make us stronger. I can't imagine what you and your husband have been going through. There was a time when I was told that I probably wouldn't be able to have children. A doctor told me I had cysts on my ovaries but she didn't actually do any tests or anything to prove that. I'm very grateful that she was wrong. I hope everything works out for you and your husband.
@Tallman@xanga - Yes, it was very difficult for him both times he went. The second time he was sent home early due to the death of his father. He had to ride in the cargo hold of a plane that was transporting fallen soldiers back to the states. Seeing all that death and destruction was just devastating for him so we've really come a long way in the course of our marriage.
@musterion99@xanga - @DrummingMediocrity@xanga - @dearvices@xanga - @Tallman@xanga - @TheGreatBout@xanga - I just wanted to say that when I submitted this post, I wasn't looking for vocabulary instruction, criticism on my marriage, or a theological debate. I have been studying my religion for YEARS before I ever began to practice it. I never asked you to agree with my beliefs. I'm not discussing that right now. If you truly feel that you want to argue about it with me, go to my site and shoot me a message. I was looking for advice on how to share my beliefs with my husband. We don't attend church. There's only one congregation in the area who has the same beliefs that I do and it's too far of a drive. I give instruction to my children and husband. I receive instruction from online resources. That's why I submitted this post in the first place. So thank you to everyone who has offered advice and support. I would like to send you a friend request, if you don't mind, so that we may converse at a later time.
And to everyone else, well....just wow.
@greene_lily@xanga - Hey, that's fine. It does bother me when people claim to be Agnostics and are clearly wrong of what an Agnostic is. (I'm sure that many Christians would react when someone confused the core of their religion as not acknowledging Jesus as their savior.) It's also common to confuse the definition, so I genuinely thought you may not have known.
I truly did not think I was projecting my beliefs (or lack thereof) onto you.
In fact, I don't recall even inserting them into my msg, as I don't find them relevant to the context of this blog post. I'm not sure how I was expected to know that you don't go to church, which is why I figured you did (many converts to Christianity that I have seen are very adamant about going moreso than not). I'm sorry if you didn't find my advice helpful, or condescending, but that's the best I could come up with and I originally thought it would be of good use to you. I'm not interested in a theological debate (and did not think I was inserting myself into one, in this case). I was only interested in helping you, as a person.
I wish you the best of luck.
@greene_lily@xanga - When you write something on a public forum, everything you've written is up for discussion. In my first comment I responded to what you wrote and told you that your husband is not sinning because of what you were doing. My second comment was in response to your comment to me. if you're going to be so easily offended, then you probably shouldn't submit articles on here. Just saying.....
@greene_lily@xanga - I wasn't trying to debate. Just wanted to offer what I thought was helpful. Sorry if it wasn't.
Yeah, prepare to be ripped on when you submit a post...evidently that's what you're supposed to do when leaving comments on the Internet :/ I have never converted, and my fiance and I both have the same religious view right now. We go to a Christian church a few times a month because I play the organ there, but we are both in the "undecided about organized religion but just be a good person and help others" boat. I'm not sure how the members of the congregation I play for would feel if they knew this information, but right now I'm just of the mind that the most important thing I learned in Sunday School is what Jesus taught: love others, try to love your enemies, be accepting, and help those in need.
I would say that the best thing you can do is not force it on him. I can definitely see where someone who is a veteran of war would find it hard to believe in a merciful God. Perhaps if you introduce wider ideas and philosophies first then he might warm up to the idea. Non-Christians often have trouble with the "laws and rules" portion of religion (or at least the ones I know have that issue with it, among others). That's about all I can offer since I haven't had much experience with this sort of situation. Good luck :)
Kudos to your nobility, in the purest sense of the word. Sometimes it's hard to find. I don't have much advice for you, just found your writing interesting and wanted to wish you and your husband well, i think your shared love with take care of the rest.