Wednesday, 28 December 2011
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The Price of Sin
Note: This post deals specifically with the issue of sin and the consequence of sinning. This isn't to disregard the grace and mercy given to us by Christ. We must first understand why Christ had to die. Why sin is such a serious issue. That's what I attempt to address here.So Moses returned from the mountain and called together the elders of the people and told them everything the LORD had commanded him.
And all the people responded together, “We will do everything the LORD has commanded.” So Moses brought the people’s answer back to the LORD.Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will come to you in a thick cloud, Moses, so the people themselves can hear me when I speak with you. Then they will always trust you.”
Moses told the LORD what the people had said. Then the LORD told Moses, “Go down and prepare the people for my arrival. Consecrate them today and tomorrow, and have them wash their clothing. Be sure they are ready on the third day, for on that day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai as all the people watch. Mark off a boundary all around the mountain. Warn the people, ‘Be careful! Do not go up on the mountain or even touch its boundaries. Anyone who touches the mountain will certainly be put to death.
No hand may touch the person or animal that crosses the boundary; instead, stone them or shoot them with arrows. They must be put to death.’ However, when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast, then the people may go up on the mountain.”
Exodus 19:7-13, NLT
God set up a boundary line of which the people could not cross. Should there be any violation of that boundary, death was the consequence.
Throughout human history, we have sought to relegate consequences to various laws when broken. A person who steals may have to pay the cost of the item plus interest. Someone who murders will lose their life or serve the remainder of the life in prison. A drunk driver can no longer drive legally. And so on. Each law has its correlating consequence, or punishment, if broken.The severity of the crime also plays a factor. Was the theft a large or small amount? Was the murder premeditated or due to invoked rage? Is it the driver's first offense or third?
This is an appropriate form of legal justice, and Biblical. However, we tend to stretch this far - too far - into our spiritual justification. "God, I did sin, but I was mostly good. I should be allowed into Heaven."
"Mostly good". Not at all a logical argument.
See, in this passage, God makes two things clear: 1. Do not cross the boundary to any extent. 2. Crossing the line is deserving of the punishment of death.
And just to make certain His command is not open for exceptions, God expounds on His decree: (A) Don't touch a person who has crossed the boundary. (B) Don't touch an animal who has crossed the boundary. (C) If you have not heard the horn blast, don't cross the boundary.
God spells it out! And the punishment is clear and the same: death!
No one could say, "I reached my hand across, but I was mostly before the foot of the mountain." Nor, "My goat went across - I only went to get it." There was no trying to diminish the penalty for crossing the line, as if a slap on the rear or a serious scolding would suffice.
There was no accounting for why or how badly the line was crossed. Sin was committed. When God expressed the law, the point to observe was that the law was to be obeyed. God was not interested in our trying to maintain a reasonable excuse for why the boundary was crossed, nor analyzing the severity by which the law was broken.
In human relationships and daily affairs, offenses carry varying degrees of consequences. But only one thing matters when we sin against God: we sinned. And that results in one ultimate consequence: death.Do you think that, when it comes to sin, the judgment is the same regardless of the sin? Or is there less punishment for small sins than for big sins, similar to the structure of our own legal system?
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About the Author
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- From: NaitoOfNarnia@xanga
- Name: Michael
- Location: Marysville, Washington, United States
- About Me: Fun-lovin' - quiet - playful - supportive - Jesus Freak - singer - lyric writer - aspiring recording artist - single - video game nut - eldest/big brother to my two brothers - son to a loving mother - encourager - listener - future husband to a Lady of beauty - future father to unconceived children - SON OF GOD, FRIEND OF JESUS... FORGIVEN
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Comments (44)
@Lovegrove@xanga - If you allow me some time, I'll gather the evidence you demand to the best of my ability.
But please note that you were the one who originally stated there is no evidence to support the Bible. I provided you with the historical content for starters, and you rejected that. Why should I offer anything else?
The Four Gospels were not different perspectives as they were different focuses. The themes that each writer gave were of the same events (yes, there were reports that the others did not mention, but that's hardly a disqualifier), but had different reasons for highlighting each story.
Historical evidence is important because it can be verified by extra-Biblical sources and roots the Bible in reality, which so many other religions do not. Thus, when spiritual context is examined, we can evaluate the possibility that the spiritual factors do not contradict reality, but works with in it.
Decades though the Gospels were after the events, that's hardly another disqualifier. People can and do remember events in their own lifetime as if they were still then and there, yet we do not criticize such recounts of history. Compared to other ancient works which were recorded with far greater separation of time between the event and the recording. Also, the decades are in reference to the copies on hand. The original letters would bear even tighter timeframes between the event and the recording. Perhaps - PERHAPS - within as little as a few years or months (admittedly, that's just my own speculation at this moment).
Let's not forget that the Gospels were written by first-hand eye witnesses of Jesus' entire ministry. This wasn't hearsay, but the people who lived it.
Curiously, your comparison of the Bible to the Quaran is interesting. Because the Quaran does not record history so accurately. I can say this because the events in the Bible have been greatly confirmed, yet the Quaran different deeply from Biblical accounts. To what degree in detail I cannot say. But I mention this because, again, given that the Bible does include a rooted historical context, it cannot be dismissed when it comes to the validity of the Bible as a whole. And if you dismiss even the historical context, then my previous statement of any spiritual evidence I could provide meaning nothing to you would stand true.
Consider this, too, that in that day and age, to admit one was a Christian often meant death. The religious leaders murdered Jesus and most of His immediate disciples. So after Jesus was resurrected, to have reports and testimonies of people saying they saw Jesus alive again meant these people were willing to risk their lives for the truth. If it were not true, they certainly wouldn't have been foolish enough to say anything. Not for something they knew was a lie.
I'll gather my info for the spiritual evidence. Again, allow me some time. Having such info immediately at hand or in mind is not my strength. It takes me a great deal of effort just to try to keep what I say here and now in order (or as close to order as I can manage as I sort through my thoughts).
@Composer - I think you may have accidentally cited me in these replies. Sorry- please try again.
@Composer - I'm not even going to waste my time on what you said. All you've done is isolate a few verses out of context from the rest of scripture. I'm not even going to waste my time on what you said. You're also WindOnReed2, aren't you?
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - I spent some time responding to your last comment and then lost it while transferring it to Xanga; I give up and will make some hot wine instead.
@Lovegrove@xanga - Shall we take a "breather" and reconvene later on?
(And I feel for ya about losing what you've typed. Ooooh the number of times that's happened to me. Especially when I had the rare moment of feeling like I worded exactly what I wanted to say PERFECTLY. Man! That's frustrating!)
@dustysojourner@xanga - The credibility and ' one mindedness ' (e.g. 1 Pet. 3:8) KJV Story book, of ALL those claiming to be ' christians ' is easily detected in many simple ways. Let's try one method for starters - (I would really like to take a POLL of those claiming to be christians here, is that possible?)
IF not, then I shall ask the following and wait a day or so for responses along with the User names of those honest enough here to answer truthfully?
1. Do you believe in Free-Will? (Your Story book evidence to support this would also be great?)
2. Do you still sin since finding/embracing your jesus?
Thank you!
@dustysojourner@xanga - Sorry if that happened, new here & not yet used to this format. Meanwhile whomsoever did make that comment my response applies equally and refutes them unambiguously!
Cheers!
@musterion99@xanga - wrote: I'm not even going to waste my time on what you said. All you've done is isolate a few verses out of context from the rest of scripture.
Composer responds: How many verses do I need to cite then each time, please be specific?
Do you also cite that amount each time you respond? I'll do some checking of YOUR Past, Present & Future answers IF you tell me what that figure needs to always be?
BTW: Where is your alleged evidence I took any of them ' out of context? ' Your ' say so ' without legitimate supportive credible evidence doesn't count for anything, apart from your empty speculation and false accusations!
@musterion99@xanga - wrote: I'm not even going to waste my time on what you said. Composer responds: If I were you I'd keep silent as well as you have NO evidence to support your outrageous assertions!
@musterion99@xanga - wrote: You're also WindOnReed2, aren't you?
Composer responds: You must be of the devil you believe in, or one of its agents, for you are a ' false accuser ' and a pretend jesus believer. (Also easily proven IF you wish to step forward & be tested by your own preferred Story book bible?)
Much better luck next times!
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - wrote: Sin carries with it many consequences.
It destroys relationships, it hinders one's ability to think clearly, it distorts the truth, it dishonors God who created us...the list goes on! . . . . . . . . Sin carries with it many consequences.
It destroys relationships, it hinders one's ability to think clearly, it distorts the truth, it dishonors God who created us...the list goes on!
Composer responds: Do you believe in Free-Will?
Do you still sin since you claimed to have met/embraced/followed this biblical jesus?
@Composer - lol! Have a great life.
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - I spent some time responding to your last comment and then lost it while transferring it to Xanga; I give up and will make some hot wine instead.
Composer responds: It would help to minimise confusion, if each poster always mentions specifically to whom they are addressing?
Thank you!
@Composer - That's what the REPLY link is for. It is so you KNOW that I'm reply to you or to someone else.
And yes, I still sin even though I've claimed Christ as my Lord and Savior. Paul, in the New Testament, explains why that is. It's because the promise of full salvation has not yet been realized. It's like having bought something online. It's ours, but it hasn't yet been delivered. Jesus addressed this point, too. Which is why He gave all the warnings and teachings and encouragement that He did. He knew we would still struggle even though we believed in Him.
@Lovegrove@xanga (I believe wrote) - Shall we take a "breather" and reconvene later on?
(And I feel for ya about losing what you've typed. Ooooh the number of times that's happened to me. Especially when I had the rare moment of feeling like I worded exactly what I wanted to say PERFECTLY. Man! That's frustrating!)
Composer responds: IF you were a genuine Story book jesus' believer this should never be a problem for those like you -
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it]. (John 14:12-14) KJV Story book. Thus proving that ANY believer shall do ' greater miracles than Story book jesus ' and proves also this promise IS NOT made only or restricted to the Story book Apostles! & If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. (John 15:7) English Standard Version (ESV) Story book
So getting your lost posts back is a breeze; unless of course you are a fraudulent believer and/or your jesus is a myth!
Much better luck next times!
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - And yes, I still sin even though I've claimed Christ as my Lord and Savior.
1. You haven't legitimately demonstrated any such a thing except by a verbal claim you believe you have?
Unfortunately for those like you now, the bible itself states ' how a genuine believer can be detected by others or how a genuine Story book bible jesus' believer will manifest themselves according to the criteria and promises ' already a given ' by Story book jesus' god.
I would normally ask that you step up & be scrutinised for legitimacy however now based upon your admission you still sin despite claiming to have embraced this Story book jesus, the bible jesus itself exposes those like you as a fraud! (Read on)
Here again is your admission -
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - And yes, I still sin even though I've claimed Christ as my Lord and Savior.
Story book bible states - Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. (1 John 3:6) NET Story book
Hence the context is clear and unambiguous against those like you!
a) You ' claim ' to have claimed christ as your lord & saviour yet b) admit you still continue to sin regardless?
Story book bible states: Everyone who resides in him does not sin; (1 John 3:6a) NET Story book
Story book bible condemns those like you that still sin as frauds and jesus' rejects -
. . . . everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. (1 John 3:6b) NET Story book
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - Paul, in the New Testament, explains why that is. It's because the promise of full salvation has not yet been realized. It's like having bought something online. It's ours, but it hasn't yet been delivered. Jesus addressed this point, too. Which is why He gave all the warnings and teachings and encouragement that He did. He knew we would still struggle even though we believed in Him.
Composer responds: Story book Paul was obviously also a fraud, making claims he couldn't legitimately uphold! Your misunderstandings of what you claim this Story book jesus allegedly also said, is also to be discarded, because your true identity as a jesus' fraud and reject is now manifest!
Can you now actually legitimately demonstrate you are not an agent of your Satan also masquerading as an alleged ' angel of light? ' for that is what we must now rightly conclude? (cf. 2 Cor. 11:14) KJV Story book
Better luck next times!
BTW: Also looking forward to hearing IF you also believe in Free-Will?
@Composer - No problem. BTW- if you're replying to only one person, there is no need to reply to each of his/her comments. Entering the reply once will send a notice to his/her email that you have responded, but it will not link to which comments you responded to. It actually just looks more aggressive to most people if you do it that way.
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - I'll do what I normally do, and that is to respond to what is said if I have something to say on that topic at that moment. I think the recent conversation had just about run its course, seeing as it had become a series of repeats. However, if you have something to add ...
@Composer - I would try explaining to you what Jesus meant about His believers not sinning. But you are looking for a concrete, legalistic answer because you're asking a legalistic question. So you are not actually interested in the truth about Jesus' words, but something to justify your bias against God.
And to answer your last question, yes, I fully believe in Free Will. While the Bile does not specifically use those words, the concept of Free Will is written throughout the entire Bible, from as early as Genesis 2.
@dustysojourner@xanga - I'm not surprised he did that...he doesn't appear to even have a Xanga account, so he's not familiar with the site. Oh well.
@NaitoOfNarnia@xanga - Yeah- I wouldn't bother arguing with someone online though. It never accomplishes what we hope it will. lol There are a LOT of people who get on Revelife only to stir up trouble, though you're likely aware of this if you've been on here already. haha
@dustysojourner@xanga - Oooh, yes, I've been on Xanga for many years. Almost ten, I believe. Learning more about my subject material and how to present it hasn't provided as much of a learning curve as learning how to deal with the argumentative type (and telling the difference) has been.
(Side note: I started a new blog a while back and am now resuming it now that I have access to a laptop again. Catch me at Rhindon.Xanga.com.)