@StatelessPilot - You know, I never understood why you are so negative about everything. Is that really necessary? Yes, you are a male, you do not know what it is like to be pregnant. Having a baby is a miracle, because as @lizardsjade said, some people that are told they could not have a baby, end up having one. You will never know the feeling of a baby being a miracle until you have your own.
@Cherryblossom1201@xanga - I'm just being honest. They are not miracles. There is no such thing as a miracle. EVERYTHING has a natural explanation (pregnancy or otherwise, even in the most dire situations).
No I won't ever experience such a "miracle." I had a vasectomy a year ago. No kids or regrets. I have much better things to spend $226,920 on (the estimated cost to raise a kid for 18 years), spend my free time doing, etc. than putting up with temper tantrums, changing shit-filled diapers, dealing with raging hormones, using MY sick time for a kid instead of for myself, etc.
@StatelessPilot - Well I for one am glad you choose to never be parent, even by mistake. Hopefully you got yourself snipped so this may never be the case. While you are entitled to your opinion sometimes its just better and probably even considerate to zip your lip. People like you make me want to gag because its people like you that become deadbeat parents 99% of the time when they haven't taken the initiative to get themselves fixed to solve the probelm of having children.
If they can afford their children and emotionally support them and be good parents without being a drain on taxpayers and consistently on welfare for everything then more power to them. While I don't agree with what they have done and think they have way to many children... its not for us to judge them on it and definitely none of our business. As long as they are raising their children responsibly and in a loving home, then we should keep our mouths shut. They are plenty of bad parents out there for everyone to ridicule go pick on them.
@StatelessPilot - "eyeroll" are you 12? Are you a grown man with manners? Who has the reading abilities of a third grader? I find that you seem to have the maturity level of a 12 year old, so it is good that you have gotten the visectomy, by the way I had been typing that out before your last reply to @Cherryblosson1201 and just didn't get it in before your continued conversation. Have a good day.
@bamsniko22407@xanga - Honestly I agree that she should have stopped after the last one with all the complications and some of her kids may or may not have resentment for having to parent the smaller ones, but honestly it is all on them. Apparently they are happy. We are not supporting them and its not our bodies we pushing to the limits like that, so all of our opinions don't matter.
@malissa1578@xanga - I'm 24 years old and I have no tolerance for ignorance or stupidity. That's all. To quote one of my favorite songs of all time, "I was born in the south, sometimes I have a big mouth when I see something that I don't like."
what i don't understand is how people label this as a blessing or a miracle. if you want to argue that God is responsible, then He is also responsible for miscarriages, infertility, even circumstances under which a woman might choose to get an abortion. you can't give Him credit for only the good stuff.
@Cherryblossom1201@xanga - it has nothing to do with being male. i'm a very fertile female who wants children, agrees with him. it's not being pessimistic, it's being pragmatic. not every child is a blessing. for example, if i got pregnant right now i'd be at the abortion clinic the next day. not even just parenthood, but pregnancy would ruin my already messed up life. my mother had an abortion when she was very young, and i consider it a blessing that Roe v. Wade was passed just the year prior for her to have the choice. not to mention, if she had kept that pregnancy she never would have had me.
@malissa1578@xanga - if you're going to sign away your privacy for a reality TV show (the revenue from it being the only way they're still able to afford their family size) then yeah, you get to be judged. no one is forcing them to remain reality TV stars.
@lizardsjade - do you know what it's like to be told you might be pregnant, even though you used two forms of birth control? to start wondering if you'll need to drop out of school? to start figuring out how you can hide either the pregnancy or abortion from your family, because either one will get you kicked out and disowned? probably not, but i have. pregnancy isn't always wonderful. it sucks but it's true. and if my experience on the subject somehow invalidates yours, you need to get over yourself.
"If God chooses to bless them with 20 children then that is God's plan.. How can we claim to know better then God?" the problem with that is it can be applied to even the worst situations. God's plan doesn't just stop at the good stuff. God gave my mom diabetes, so obviously she shouldn't work to treat it or maintain it, right? or my anxiety that causes me to have suicidal thoughts. maybe God wants me to kill myself, and that's His way of arranging for it. so i should stop taking my medication and just go with it.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Well since we don't agree that is okay. Thats what these places are for. Honestly it doesn't matter what their "job" may be. It is still providing them with the ability to support said family. If we judge people on the choices they make (which is quite common) then we should judge the people that now choose to watch their show. They are the ones that make it a popular show and enable them to stay on their reality TV show. I guess I just find that most people that judge should be careful as they to will be judged, and I don't mean by god, as people will always judge everyone based on choices, appearance, education... To judge is to be judged. I honestly think that signing up for a reality tv show is more of a decision that makes you up for grabs as a topic of conversation more than signs you up to be judged. Just because we may not agree with them on the way they chose to go about their family doesn't mean they deserve judgement. They are not committing a crime to be judged for, they simply chose to have too many children, imo, that doesn't make them bad it just makes them seem like they could have made a better choice or thought it out maybe a little more, but that is simply a matter of opinion. But like I said it seems judging people is part of our nature...
They obviously have the means to take care of this many children, since they're on TV, but I have to say, I wonder if they'd keep having this many kids if they weren't on TV? They don't seem to use birth control, and many Christian religions (such as Catholicism) don't believe in contraception. You also have to take into consideration if that poor woman's uterus is FIT for pumping out more children.
@StatelessPilot thank you for showing your true colors in your ignorance. You say you can't stand ignorant people, well please do everyone, including yourself a huge favor and go look in the mirror. When you can start to stand yourself then you know that there's something wrong with your view on people in general. Your view on children is an interesting one. I for one am glad that no child will ever have to grow up with you as a father.
@to_pretty_to_die You could never invalidate my son, or my experience. I'm sorry you don't love yourself enough to tell some guy no when you know that your family would disown you for having sex at such a young age. If you were older then 18, then I'm sorry that they don't love you enough to get over themselves. As you stated, no I don't know what it's like to use 2 forms of birth control and still worry about being pregnant. There are always many sides to everything, and your viewpoint is just another side. And to answer the question, why would God allow all of the horrible things in the world to happen, I have one comment. It's called free will, if he took that away from a murderer he would have to take that away from everyone else, to be fare.
@malissa1578@xanga - i think the only way to really avoid judgment is to not believe in absolutes. otherwise, judgment is implicit. you can't say that A is absolutely right without saying that B and C are absolutely wrong. i don't think i judge so much as believe strongly in what is and is not right for me. if i have any real objections, it's that i wonder whether two parents can have that many children and still love and cherish them all the same, and whether it's fair to the older children to put them in the position of being mini parents and filling in any gaps. i do see it as child hoarding to an extent. i think it's also important to realize that, since the human race is no longer in danger due to low population and families don't lose half their children to disease before the age of 12, the only reason to have that many children is because you want to. it's an inherently selfish act. i don't think selfishness is always a bad thing... but i wonder if it's really the optimal environment for a child to grow up in.
Once you are unable to emotionally and financially support the amount of children, that is definitely too much. Period. There is no other indicator -- there is not a God-ordained limit, and American has no legal limit. I do not see how this is a difficult or interesting question.
@lizardsjade - I'm ignorant because I regard pregnancy as the biological process it is instead of a divine miracle? If we were living in the middle ages and still didn't know what sperm and egg were, I could maybe see you as having a legitimate excuse to believe this, but this is 2011. We know exactly what causes pregnancy, and it's far from a miracle. It's a biological process NOT unique to human beings.
My view on kids is far from interesting or unique. More couples than ever are choosing not to have children. It's called "childfree" and I suggest you do a Google search if you don't believe that it's a legitimate trend. I'm not the only one who feels that having children would detract from my life experience. I'd much rather devote more time to my career, hobbies and interests; and more of my money to traveling the world (I already travel some as an airline pilot, but not as much as I'd like to) and buying my own private airplane and a few other nice things.
Lastly, don't even mention the "free will" defense. It's been ripped to shreds several times. There is no such thing as free will when you put your "God" into the picture, because if you notice, regardless, your "God" gets his way in the end. So that's not really free will at all.
@StatelessPilot - I wasn't putting you down for your choice in not having children. I for one am glad you choose not to have children because of your view on them. You do realize that you were a child once right? But, on another note, I also know and understand people who choose to be "childfree". There are many couples that choose this for many different reasons.
As far as my speaking of your ignorance, I was not speaking of what you know of the child bearing process. I was speaking of your view on people that choose to have children. Just because you choose to not have children doesn't mean that others who choose to have them are ignorant. And if you have such a problem with God, then we can leave him out of this conversation. Although, I don't understand how you say he gets his way in the end. Say you decide to kill someone, that's all your choice, and no God is not getting his way when you go out and kill someone. So please, enlighten me on why you say he get's his way.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - See I agree with this more than I did your previous reply. I like this conversation. Now I don't really seeing you as being judgemental like in the first comment I replied to of yours. You have explained your thought process and this is not judgemental at all and I tend to agree on most points you have just made. the only thing I may differ in opinion is that while I agree this is a selfish act, it would only be a detrimentally selfish act if the children were unhappy, unsafe, and without the things they need to survive. Yes the parents have acted selfishly in indulging in too many children, I agree with you on this one. I find that I view the Duggar situation from the stand point that its not bad because they have made their children suffer, I simply don't see them suffering, as they can afford them and they take care of them... its just too many children for just the parents to take care of so now the older ones have to step in and help and with so many to take care of how do they have their own lives like they are supposed to, is why I think they have too many children. Its not another childs job to be a stand-in parent or help with parenting, it is the parents job, and while I don't see them as bad parents, they are very loving, I see them as having to have their older children help with a job that is theirs as parents.
I honestly don't know much about the show. I have never watched it. Not a big reality TV fan, but I have read several articles on their family and its seems they are very pleasant.
Personal experience with being an older sibling taking care of younger siblings... I just got sick of not being able to do some of the things I wished I could have instead of always being the one to take care of my sister. My mom was just a very selfish person and could not grown up enough to be the parent so I had to take care of them alot. I have no resentment, I was mad when I was younger, but I am glad I was there for them while I could be before having to move on to my own life... I just wish I could have experienced more like soccer, or movies with friends, or maybe a boyfriend that a young tween and teenager is supposed to expereince with parents that were there.
@gobdog@xanga - so true....I can't imagine trying to have a real connection to my parents emotionally. Even the babies are cared for by the older children...it's great the kids have so many people to be connected to, but not a real parent/child relationship...
I can't believe they would also choose to home school the kids...if it were up to me, I would be dying for a few hours of solitude, or at least bring it down to like 5 kids or however many non-school are ones there are. These kids are growing up without a super connection to their parents and without knowing what it's like to have an authority figure outside of their parents...or really too many friends outside their siblings...
@lizardsjade - Yes, I realize I was once a child and truth be told if I ever went back in time and met child me I'd hate him, because I was an annoying little shit just as every child is.
My opinion comes from the fact that having children is not a smart financial, economical, or career move. That's why it's not really the smartest thing to do. There are no real benefits to having children, and who gives a damn about continuing the human race? Uh, sorry, this world was here long before humans were ever part of it and will be here long after humans cease to exist, and that's the way it is. Love is a figment of the imagination so don't even bring that as a benefit either.
What I mean by your "God" gets his way in the end is this: if you don't believe in him (whether you're a good person or not), and don't do exactly what he says, you're going to burn in hell for eternity, which is precisely your "God" getting his way.
I JUST wrote a blog about this recently. It's a shame really. Even her doctor told her to stop because her body can't handle pregnancy any more. Not to mention SHE isn't even raising her own children - her older kids are raising the younger ones. That is NOT God's plan for parenting. YOU as a parent are supposed to parent your children. Not only are you taking away from your older children by not letting them be adolescents, you are taking away from your younger children building a healthy parent/child relationship with you.
About Me: It's not about surviving. It should be about love. When you know love...that's what makes this life worth it. When you live with it everyday. Wake up with it, hold on to it during the thunder and after a nightmare. When love is your refuge from the death that surrounds us all and when it fills you so tight that you can't express it.
— Carrie Ryan