Monday, 10 October 2011
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Atheists and Me: Setting a Christ-like Example
Many atheists tend to get along with me fairly well. This isn't a boast, just something I've noticed. I believe this because they tend to see me as fairly reasonable for a Christian.For instance, you know, it really bothers me to see all of these books out there that are meant to refute atheism (from a Christian perspective). It annoys me when people claim they can prove the existence of God. These attempts often lack luster. You see, the real shine is under the surface.
There are people who read my blog that believe I am too easy on atheists. These people believe that I give them too much credit and don't stand up for Christ enough. That certainly isn't the case. When I read the gospel I read about a Jesus who was harsh on the religious authorities, and gentle with the sinners. The difference between the two is that the religious authorities claimed to know God better. They claimed to serve God better. They claimed to love God better, when all the while, they were just interested in their own self righteousness. The sinners, on the other hand, were honest with who they believed they were and what they believed. Ultimately, the religious authorities were not the ones making converts to the faith, it was Christ. It took a literal touch from God for people to see God's existence.
I mean really, there is nothing to refute in atheism. We would only be refuting a physical reality (aside for some general misconceptions regarding scripture and what we believe). The spiritual reality, on the other hand, can not be proven, but can only be felt and lived out. Only some actually "know" God in this sense. Regardless, arguing a spiritual existence is a moot topic, especially to those who don't believe in spirituality.
From what I know of God, God can't be proven in a mathematical sense as I've seen so many try to insinuate. God can only be known. Furthermore, it isn't my knowledge of God that will gain believers. It is God touching the life of that person that will do that. This makes "proof of God" irrelevant. God doesn't need proof to exist, nor does God need people to prove God's existence. The only real proof of God, in this day and age, is what God's done inside of us (and I would argue, the first and second-hand accounts of Christ we find in scripture).
I am much more interested in countering misconceptions about scripture than proving that Jesus is Lord. The reason is, He proves Himself- and we have no power in that. We are just tools that God uses to make His Kingdom come- but we often try to use ourselves, and when we do, we make a mess of things.
So why don't I stand up for Jesus like I "should"? Well, I would argue that in a sense, I do, but it isn't me making the stand for Christ. It is Christ himself. Only He can make the blind to see. If I would try, I'm afraid I would make that person twice the son of hell as myself. I just don't want that on my shoulders. I'll give that burden to Christ, thank you.
How do you interact with atheists? Do you have atheist friends? What does standing up for Jesus really look like?
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About the Author
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- From: jmallory@xanga
- Name: Jimmy
- Location: Dayton, Ohio, United States
- About Me: Jesus is alive and working in me. I'm just trying to manifest his glory.
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Comments (27)
It's awkward talking about atheists like they're not in the room. But I agree with you, sort of.
We Christians waste time by approaching philosophy and science, asking "How can I use this to refute John?" instead of asking "How might this enrich my understanding of the world, God, my faith, and myself?
"The difference between the two is that the religious authorities claimed
to know God better. They claimed to serve God better. They claimed to
love God better, when all the while, they were just interested in their
own self righteousness. The sinners, on the other hand, were honest with
who they believed they were and what they believed. Ultimately, the
religious authorities were not the ones making converts to the faith, it
was Christ."
I love that.
And since we're here to re-present Christ, we have a very different role than making arguments akin to those of the Pharisees.
God gave us His heavenly signs so that we might wonder about Him. Creation is useful because it was His first revelation of Himself to mankind.
If someone ignores that revelation after having it presented to them, then, just like you said, there's not point- I will proclaim the Word and the Bible itself says those in disbelief will be judged by the Word (and are already judged by it since they do not believe in it).
My problem with atheists isn't so much that they don't believe in God as it is their destructive thinking. Most atheists I've come across have negative outlooks on life and society in general.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - I know what you mean when you say that it is awkward talking about atheists as if they are not in the room. When I wrote this, I was wrestling with even positing this because of that. However, I reminded myself that my blogs are generally directed towards Christians. The message is normally for them, and if atheists come, they come.
personally, i think the only thing that would ever really convert me to Christianity (outside of Jesus appearing in my bedroom one night) is being shown how Christianity could sincerely benefit me in THIS life. after all, belief in Heaven vs. Hell isn't going to come before belief in God, so it's pointless to just keep telling me i'm going to burn forever. the simple reality is that i've yet to encounter anything Christianity could help me do that i haven't pulled off on my own, or with another religion.
@Chibi_Son_Gokou@xanga - i would say that's been my perception of most Christians i know, too.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - That is a great point! Would you mind if I use this comment for one of my next blogs?
I adore you!!! For all the reasons you posted and more, you LIVE and try to be the image of Christ, instead of just preaching and down-talking to us. You know I'm an atheist, and I'm extremely fond of you. If all Christians were like you, I'd be far happier with religion in the first place.
@Chibi_Son_Gokou@xanga - I am sorry you have come across such negative people. Also, please don't confuse pessimism with realism. I am definitely a realist.
@haloed@xanga - Ironically, most of these negative people post on Xanga.
@jmallory@xanga - sure :)
I believe that you mean well and are distressed at some Christians who deliberately try to alienate others by insults and/or to "prove" God by clever arguments - neither approach designed to win folks to Christ. These people are doing what is so commonly used by believers and non-believers alike: to attempt to raise oneself by putting others down - intellectually or spiritually (or even by insulting their appearance or background).
All men are sinners - unholy, self-centered, self-satisfied, blind to the God who made them for Himself. There is no one that does good...no, not one.
If we pretend to ourselves that our "good conduct" will inspire people to follow us, we are doing Christ a great disservice. His commission to us is to preach the gospel and make disciples. Without the Word, without the preaching of the gospel, how can they believe; and if they don't believe, when we all die, the unbelievers will no longer be able to follow us.
To say that unbelievers are honest and believers dishonest shows a naivete totally discounting the work of God in His children. It is very easy to "get along with" unbelievers....just don't tell them that because of their sin Christ died a cruel and unjust death at the hands of men who also didn't believe. Don't tell unbelievers that Jesus death was necessary because of the sin of all men.
You always been a cool dude. I don't think you ever taken my baitings either.
@haloed@xanga - Agreed.
Not to generalize, but many people have the misconception athesits are "doom-and-gloom". When we're realists.The "doom-and-gloom" can lend itself to atheism though experiance...But still, two very different things!
I like this a lot! It's very well spoken and honest.
Yay for people like you!
You know, according to your faith, I think God has done all he's going to do and it's just up to everyone whether or not they are going to do it. I don't think you need to convert people because everyone makes the choice. It's just that reality is so real.
As an atheist, I fully approve of this post :)
Yes, it is indeed Biblical pattern and the way of God that He reveals Himself to us. He did it first with the Israelites through the prophets, then later through Jesus Christ. How He reveals Himself to us is clearly recorded in His word. Furthermore, He clearly states that it is the Holy Spirit that reveals the truth and no matter how much be try to "convince" others about Christ, they will not come to the realization of the truth of His death and resurrection and repent because the Holy Spirit had not revealed the truth to them. Only God can reveal Himself to man - man cannot do that for faith is believing in the unseen. If we prove that God exists, then faith is useless and the Bible becomes untrue and all that divine revelation was for nothing.
@TheBlogFather@xanga - I like that. "It's just that reality is so real."
One thing that I would say though is that it isn't really that God had done all he's going to do. Instead, it's that he does everything. That's why I don't go around telling people how they should live. It's God that makes a person change. Not me. Converting is not really something people do to others, but something God does inside a person.
Christ said, "Go and make disciples." Not "Go and make believers." I can't do that, but I can certainly help people follow Christ.
Thanks for the comment. :)
@Chibi_Son_Gokou@xanga - Most of the atheists I know are some of the most cheerful people I know. You should probably find a better class of atheists; seems you're being cheated.
@jmallory@xanga - It's just that when you say you can't change people's beliefs but you do think that God does, it looks like you've taken a few lines of ancient writing and infused it with some sort of power above all else that's ever been written about philosophy and morals and discarded them in favor of some feeling you have that God agree's with everything you say and do in your evangelistic endeavors.
I think you close yourself off to seriously moral alternatives that way.
@TheBlogFather@xanga - I understand where you are coming from, but I don't agree. It isn't that I believe God agrees with me. It's that I agree with God... and I'm always open to where that will take me... even if it brings me to a completely opposite conclusion. That's happened many times even in the last 6 months!
@jmallory@xanga - I don't doubt that you think you're in agreement with God, that's really the same thing as God agreeing with you though, there is still no provable input from his perspective, it's really impossible to prove that it's not a giant mind game you're playing with yourself and convincing yourself it's actually God. I don't mean any disrespect, I was a Christian for a long time myself. I remember what it's like.
@TheBlogFather@xanga - I don't feel like you are being disrespectful at all. I guess a better way to put it is, I'm completely open to being wrong. I am comfortable with knowing that I don't have to have all of the answers.
@jmallory@xanga - Well I think that's the best any of us can say. I just prefer that people use some rational means of looking at the world. I mean right now it looks as though religion is fueling the GOP and the country is being held hostage to people with some radical idea's about religion and America's politics. I don't mind religious people being the majority as long as they don't forget that the minority has rights too. I think that using Jesus as a test for decision making is not as good as applying good sound ethics to each problem individually. Its those who filter everything through their own religious filter that is holding things up in Washington. Queue long political rant. I'll spare you.