Tuesday, 27 September 2011

  • The History and Rejection of Tradition in the Emergent Church

    I'm reading "The Irresistible Revolution" by Shane Claiborne at the moment, and mostly dying at accomplishing that.

    His basic premise is wonderfully articulated, that is, the American church is dead. Where he states that the concept of church and the concept of America need to be largely disconnected from one another, I abundantly agree with him. The two kingdoms are at odds with one another, and only one can exist at a time. But, the application and conclusion to this, I find somewhat disagreeable--people are sick of "church" (little c) but maybe the "church" that people are sick of--this because it is not the real "church", that is, a mere reflection of what it is supposed to be.

    Regarding the book, I am also unsure if I agree with actively fighting against the government as well, but rather it would be more wise to let the church be the church, and the world be the world--I struggle with articulating where the line is between acting against wrongs in society, and passively letting things be (e.g. in regards to homosexuality, abortion, poor...etc.).

    Anyway, I digress, he talks of his time at Willow Creek, Bill Hybel's church:

    "I asked someone why there were no crosses at Willow Creek, and he replied, "We try to be seeker sensitive and the cross is not."

    I don't agree with what comes after, but you get the idea. The cross was excluded because it alienated people from what they wanted. The reality is, a great multitude of the elements of faith is uncomfortable: Jesus as Lord and Saviour is tough--being a disciple incoporates persecution.

    In my last post, I talked about talking about the cross--what consequences would it have when it is removed from church. I was fascinated with something from Shane Hipps, he's actually now the main pastor at Mars Hill Church, the Rob Bell incarnation of Mars Hill, that is, not the Mark Driscoll church. What was interesting was something that happened this past Sunday, he tweeted the following about a Muslim woman:

    "Watched members of @marshillorg invite a Muslim woman to the communion table today. You all amaze me. bigjesus"

    "@Blogustana For clarification, we practice an open table. Anyone wanting grace is welcome."

    "@TheBerker My apologies. I wasn't trying to be cool. I just thot it was cool. We practice an open table. Anyone wanting grace is welcome."

    "To clarify, the Muslim woman didn't actually take communion. Even so, taking it would violate her theology more than mine. Open table here"

    "@BillyKangas Yes, the word "Sacrament" is from the Latin for "mystery." So I have a lot of room for disagreement on this one."

    "@jeffreykauffman I love the Bible. I think Paul is talking to a specific community, like head coverings, slavery, or women being silent." [5]

    I don't understand why he was tweeting during church, I'm not sure if that's what Jesus would do. But, more importantly, the exclusivity of what Christ preached on communion and the cross which He bore, is sorely missing here. What is missing is the understanding of the emblems of the communion inherently mean something exclusive, that it is symbolic of the entering into covenant with Jesus--that is, He will be our Lord and we would be His people. I am joyful that the woman had rejected the communion, for I do not know what type of judgment would have befallen her for not knowing the Lord yet [1]. 

    Yet, it seems only a symptom of a greater problem, that is, a lack of the cross. It's not entirely surprising for an emergent church to be doing this, undermining what has been traditionally held as holy. The central grounding for everything we believe in, but often it gets in the way of relevance and subjectivity. One observation, I've noticed is that people progressively seem to be treating the cross more of a semiotics instead of a literal wood and nails on a Jerusalem hill.

    The loss of a real history happening, bring a disconnectedness from reality and this removes the solemnity and the solidarity of what church history has fought so hard. In exchange, what has been adopted is a more organic, mystical Christianity. This is sometimes a gift, but people stray often to extremes. I see the megachurch as an extreme of what was a passion for seeing people saved, as much as I see the emergent church as a genuine passion for community and intimacy.

    I see the emergent church largely as one of the same of the Shane Claiborne I mentioned at the beginning. He sees the church is broken and tired, I do too--yet how we would solve it would be vastly different. I would adhere to a more traditional way, I love the Puritans and those who would stick more closely to a literal reading of the Bible. But how the Shane Claibornes, Rob Bells, Shane Hipps of this world would act is different from what I would do. That being said, I do like Claiborne a lot more than the others mentioned. 

    They want to wrench the church away from keeping to the Scriptures and hold some subjective standard. The failure is to recognize that the subjective church has already changed the church, yet still wearing the sheepskin of the objective church. The problem is that the church as we see it, is nothing like what the Puritans would have seen it, nor what Martin Luther would have wanted to bring. I would bet if John Calvin came and saw the church today, it would be nothing as he would have fought so hard for. Yet, as emergents see it, they see the American church wrong, and hold all peoples related to the history of the church responsible for this. Because they have brought down everyone responsible for our present church, they have also brought up those who are not responsible.

    In application to the Muslim woman, she is who has been brought up. People of all faiths are glorified as the expense of those of tradition brought down. It's a peaceful scene, but I'm not sure how long it would last. It's a rather strange ontological inversion. 

    How do you like my historical narrative?

    [1]"For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself."That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died." 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 (English Standard Version)

    HT to comingoutcalvinist.com

Comments (10)

  • Ancient_Scribe@xanga
    "The loss of a real history happening, bring a disconnectedness from reality and this removes the solemnity and the solidarity of what church history has fought so hard. In exchange, what has been adopted is a more organic, mystical Christianity. "
    Yes! To cut off Christianity from history is to cut it adrift in a sea of impulse and innovation and to float further and further away from the rock of faith the Apostles gave us in the beginning. There is nothing wrong with a mystical Christianity so long as it co-exists with Sacred Tradition!
    OP, if this is a topic that interests you then I highly, highly suggest you read "The Everlasting Man" by G.K. Chesterton. I just read it and he touches on precisely the same things you brought up in your blog! Church history, comparative religion, all of it. It's truly a beautiful book and I think you would enjoy it a great deal.

    "Yes, the word "Sacrament" is from the Latin for "mystery." So I have a lot of room for disagreement on this one."


    Actually "sacrament" comes from the Latin word meaning "oath." If only that Tweeter had decided to look it up before he tweeted! How embarrassing. 
  • quest4god

    I think you're right about the way history is being treated - in the church and out.   So much of history is being rewritten, and our ancestors are demeaned by people writing about them without real scholarly study.   Almost anything we want to "know" about, we can find on the internet.   Trouble is, the source of that information is not easily traced to see if it is reliable.  


    There is a mindset today like at the Tower of Babel.  Humanity is wanting a unity without God.  Anyone or anything that speaks of exclusivity is considered bad (read, politically incorrect)   What is more exclusive than Jesus' statement that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no one can come to God except through Him. 


    Speaking also of "politically incorrect."   This is where dissidents in the church are having trouble.  For instance, the issue of killing unborn children has now been transferred to the political arena.   So, even though the traditional church (because of its reverence for the scriptures) believes that killing children is wrong, it is distasteful to the emergents or "seeker friendlys" because it is now a purely political thing - not a moral thing that God has spoken about plainly.

  • mommachatter@xanga

    This blog has a far too broad of scope for me.  What is it addressing:
    A Muslem woman going forward for the Lord's supper?
    The church's affect in history?
    A man tweeting during services?
    How some faith matters are now being turned over to politics?
    Jesus's ego when he said "no man comes to the father except by me"?


    I think I'll reserve comment until I know which topic is being addressed.

  • llamalima@xanga

    @mommachatter@xanga - All of the above. I guess it began as comment on the Muslim woman, andthen, I decided to give a history, and where that event fits into my narrative. The man tweeting is a very minor point. The history is the main focal point I guess.

  • monobeam@xanga

    If we see tradition as forward-looking, then it is not at all opposed to change.  Church maintains culture thru the ages.

    Efforts to discourage culture go against people, are anti-man.

    As such there isn't an American church, but Churches, cultures of Christians living side by side.

    The idea of a mega church is like a church without a culture, a generic church -- this seems to be the wrong direction.

    My German Catholic grandfather lived in Winona, MN a hundred years ago.  The German Catholics had a strong sense of culture.  Irish Catholics complained about this. The response of the Church was to discourage culture where it bothered others.  I feel that this led to German Catholics who were weak in the faith, or who left.  Culture is touchy, and one groups normal is strange to other groups.  We have to be sensitive to others while not forcing Christians to be generic, for this would be the end of the Church.

  • mommachatter@xanga

    I still think I am over my head here.  You talk of people like Luther and Calvin and Puritans and although they are familiar, I don't exactly know how they fit into the "puzzle".  I do know that every hundred years or so, Christianity seems to take several 90 degree turns and each time it takes a turn...Poof! you have a new religion (branch of).  No I have not lived a 100 years but I'm working on it and it seem that I have lived through some of these changes.  When I was a little girl there was a picture widely circulated of a little girl in a frilly dress and hat and gloves standing at the back of the pew. Beside her her, slightly out of focus was her parents standing with her.  The caption read "Families that pray together, stay together".  And around that time indeed parents and children (even grown children with their children) would attend Sunday morning services and then all would go to Mom or Grandma's house for dinner and family time.  This tradition gradually vanished as long work hours, repeal of the Blue Law, television and Sunday Football, children demanding more freedom to go swimming, or a party occupied that family time.  Sunday no longer was held sacrosanct. Then each congregation of different demonations tried to insinuate their opinions of right and wrong causing much dissention among the members.  I don't know of a congregation that hasn't "split" because of disagreement.  And as @quest4god  so aptly pointed out the churches have acquiesced to governmental decisions such as abortion, gay marriage, divorce....  So basically the "church" has become lukewarm toward the more passionate issues.  Many of the younger generation 26-40 have fallen away as church seems a waste of time.  Christ and his disciples were anything but luke warm about their faith.  It is almost like the congregations are more afraid of stepping on the toes of their members than stepping on the toes of God.  I am not a fundamentalist, in fact I think much of the Bible was written in parables the same way Christ admittedly taught.  But truth is truth and it hasn't changed.
         I do not believe that Christ would say, "Ok, now that abortion is legal and safe, we can do away with that rule.  I think we should open a clinic for these girls "in trouble" but before they can get a free abortion they must listen to a class of alternatives"   Yep.  I know that happened first hand.  
         Many people are looking and learning from in-home Bible studies.  Read the entire chapter, decided who is talking to whom and the reason that lesson is being taught and how it can be applied to today's world, and end in an open discussion.  Unfortunately it is sometimes difficult to find an in-home bible study so we are losing many in the change over.  I know for certain one of my daughter-in-laws if I invited her would think I was playing "holier than thou" and I must admit my reluctance to try it with her and my son.   Fewer people are having family Bible readings at home. How this all fits in with what you gentlemen are saying I don't know.  I only know what I see and wonder I don't think the scholors of long ago would recognize todays churches, I don't.

  • llamalima@xanga

    @Ancient_Scribe@xanga - Touche! Just looked up the word "sacrament", it does mean oath. Totally missed that gaffe. #badberean


    Anyway, I'll look into that Chesterton book, I hugely enjoy his works. I haven't read that particular one though!
  • MagisterTom@xanga

    @Ancient_Scribe@xanga - Eh, its not like Shane Hipps believes anything the bible says anyway. Him and Rob Bell redefine everything as they go to fit what they want to say.

  • Ancient_Scribe@xanga

    @MagisterTom@xanga - Well, I think they believe what *they* thing the Bible says! And if they are in the business of redefining everything to fit what they want to believe and say, they certainly aren't the first. Breaks my heart, though.

  • llamalima@xanga

    I just realised that picture I used is from a Brian McLaren book cover when I saw it in the library today. . #accidentalwin

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    • From: llamalima@xanga
    • About Me: Who am I? I am 19 year old university student, prone to stressing over about some assignment due the next day. I sometimes have time to blog mostly about Christian thoughts. In my spare time, I am also a musical connoisseur, ninja, movie junkie, and full-time hypochondriac. I may have lied about one of those, or a few.
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