One of the things that has long baffled my mind about the Christian world is the notion that there is a complete canon out there. I mean at all. I have long noticed the connection between the behaviors of apostate Judaism and apostate Christianity, among which is the notion that God was finished teaching His word. Rabbinical tradition was arrayed in such a way that the Law was perfect and complete, and that the only reason one did not know everything God had taught them in the Law was because man was imperfect. Careful study of the Law, over time, would lead to knowing everything one would need to know about God.
Sound familiar?
Let's look at it this way. God is omnipotent. If He could put together a book containing everything His children would ever need to know, why did He not merely hand such a book to Adam? Personally, I think the idea that Heavenly Father's plan, a product of infinite wisdom and understanding, could be summarized in even a thousand books is a stretch.
Basically, understanding of His plan would require being taught constantly by the One who made the Plan. Like a parent and a child. When is a parent allowed to give up on their children? The child makes a mistake today, what do you do? Correct them. Tomorrow, they make the same mistake. A good parent corrects the again. Until when? Until the child gets it, and not a moment before.
Which is exactly what the Bible shows us Heavenly Father does. He taught His children His plan, through Adam. For a time they listened. Then, over time, they grew wicked and stopped. He started teaching them again, through Noah. They listened, grew wicked, then stopped. Then through Abraham, Moses, Christ, then His Apostles. Then...who?
Do you think the Bible is everything we need? Why? If not, what is the next step?
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Comments (65)
"would ever need to know"
One problem here is that the word "need" - just like the words "above", "below", "further", and "in order to" - is relative to some point of reference.
"The bible does not have everything God's children needs to know" - but needs to know for what purpose? What is the bible for? If it's for salvation, for training in righteousness, for correction, it's plausible that we don't need thousands of rule-books in order to be saved or be trained in righteousness. We just need a few books, a few pages even, nay, even one verse, and one God who helps us read.
Since the editing process left a lot out of the bible as it was being compiled, I'd say no - you're only getting pieces of the story someone else deemed suitable for you to read. However, lots of other books have been found that fill in the gaps. The Apocrypha, which is included in catholic bibles is sort of an example (though it wasn't lost, just not used in some volumes), the gospel of Judas, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hammadi. And guess what - there are still more out there waiting to be discovered, books that haven't been seen since they were declared heretical and refused inclusion in the bible.
The bible, as it stands, is an incomplete text. Christians used to refuse to read the non-canonical books but the world is changing and a lot more are open to reading them than there used to be. Other than the fear of committing heresy, I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to read them. If they present a more complete picture of the events in the bible that should be motivation enough to at least give them a chance.
The next step is overcoming any objections your church may have and reading the books that are available, and any others that surface as time goes on. A lot of those writings were purposefully buried. Give yourselves permission to examine non-canonical books and learn what you're missing.
With an ecumenical spirit & open mind, consider this perspective, especially Chapter II, "Handing On Divine Revelation": http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - I believe you hit it on the head. Amen brother. We have trouble understanding what we DO have. Add a few more books to that, and talk about being confused. Billy Graham quite a few years ago made this statemwent, " I'm not worried about what I don't know about the bible , what scares me is what I do know about the bible". We can learn enough now IF we apply it to our lives, that we NEED nothing more for now. Consider this;
John 21:25
New International Version (NIV)25 Jesus did
many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I
suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that
would be written.
Just imagine what the Pharisees among us could do with a few thousand more books to elaborate on, right? We would even go as far as defining what is, is!! (ha, ha)
2 Timothy 3:16-17New International Version (NIV)16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God]"="">[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
This was said by Paul with what we already have as God's word. Do you think we need more? Dan
...then the Successors to the Apostles. aka TRADITION. Scripture is good and needed, but it's also how Scripture is interpreted. Since each one of us can come up with our own interpretation of Scripture, and thus an almost infinite number of versions of Scripture, we need ONE Authoritative Interpretive Tradition. Hence, Jesus established ONE Church for that purpose.
make sense? any questions? message me.
Good Luck man... plus If God is God then he can still speak if he can speak more "words of God" can come later
So basically christians say God is dead by saying he can only speak through a book
If God intended each human being to become exactly the same as all others, He would have made a more perfect cookie cutter than the Holy Bible. Instead He gave us the promised Holy Spirit to lead each one of us into the truth we need to live a life pleasing to Him.
Revelation 22:18-19 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If
anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll"
I have heard it argued that the scripture is only referring to the book of Revelation. That is probably the case but it is interesting to read the warning that God gives to adding to His Word or taking away from it.
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - In my experience, the Holy Spirit has never added to nor detracted from the whole of the Holy Bible but He has clarified my understanding of it in a variety of ways. Have you found this also to be true?
Of course the next life... well
It might profit you to get the Jewish perspective on what you call the Old Testament. Christians have a way of creating their own reality.
@Da__Vinci@xanga - "creating their own reality" - what do you mean?
@Da__Vinci@xanga - now you've done it. daveandbevsfarm is one piece of work.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - Most churches today are teaching pure heresy. Miraculous healing, tongues, prosperity, and the list goes on. I've personally been in most major denominations and witnessed this.
Furthermore, it's an insult to Hebrews to call it the Old Testament, it's the law, the prophets and the writings, or wisdom. Christians appropriated this book, then added the NEW Testament to it claiming it as a fulfillment of the OT. Yet their current lack of understanding of what it actually is, is astounding. Like I said, ask a Jewish Rabbi.
@how2saveaplanet@xanga - I have no reference for daveandbevsfarm.
@Da__Vinci@xanga - Talk to him long enough and you'll have a reference.
@Da__Vinci@xanga -
"Most churches today are teaching pure heresy. Miraculous healing, tongues, prosperity, and the list goes on. I've personally been in most major denominations and witnessed this."
I get how teaching prosperity is against the teachings found in the Book of the Law and of the minor/major prophets. It's pretty universally condemned. I haven't ever attended a church where prosperity is taught. (Maybe it's a Southern thing.)
But I don't get how belief in miraculous healing or tongues is somehow contra what, as you would say, we Christians call the O.T. Miraculous healing occurs throughout the O.T. And tongues is nowhere mentioned (which is why we don't look to the O.T. to base our belief in it).
It's an insult to Jews, I'm sure, that we believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and that the Messiah is God, so obviously it's an insult to them that we believe that the books of the law foreshadow the Christ and are incomplete in themselves. But I don't see a problem here. Jewish rabbis are jewish. Their beliefs are different from ours, based on our fundamentally different beliefs of who Jesus is. There are many ways in which American Christians lack understanding about Ancient Near East society, but your blanket statement "Christians create a reality of their own" strikes me as excessive exaggeration and just begs the question.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - Being a Christian the last thing I'd expect you to do is tell the truth about tongues. It's babbling nonsense. And there simply are no documented cases of anyone getting healed because someone prayed. It's wishful thinking, doesn't happen except in the minds of those so deluded as to be predisposed to believe anything.
The comedian you refer to is likely Lewis Black.
@Da__Vinci@xanga -
Da Vinci, what does this have to do with the O.T.? Tounges being babbling nonsense doesn't make it contra O.T. teachings. Let's talk about one thing at a time.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - I'm just showing you how far into heresy the Christians have come. First they appropriate a book that isn't theirs, reinterpret it with complete disregard for the Hebrew people, call it old and put out a NT and start doing what ever they please in the name of Jesus.
I'm multi-tasking so I cant write the volumes necessary to fully explain my thoughts on this. We aren't likely to agree anyway, so maybe another time.
@Da__Vinci@xanga -
You know, atheists on Xanga have this strange tendency of making assertions and then saying they're busy when they're asked to support them. Given that the personality of Xanga atheists are nearly always derivative, maybe it's an unintentional parody of fundamentalist Christians on Xanga. Whatever being the case, I don't mean to spotlight you for it, (well I actually do mean to, I suppose what I mean is I don't mean ill by it) but the sad combination of condescension and incoherent argument irks me.
For example, "I'm just showing you how far..."
No. You haven't quite begun showing anything. You've (1) called glossolalia a heresy (2) called glossolalia babbling nonsense, (3) insinuate that I'm dishonest, and (4) repeat (and conclude) that glossolalia is a heresy. Maybe this is the level of conversation you're used to, or maybe this is just how you treat issues.
But anyway, maybe another time.
A question for the author....are you LDS, by any chance?
@quest4god - Absolutely. I believe in a constant flow of revelation, only broken up when people don't listen to the truth they have. What about you?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Bible is an awesome story book. Without breath, though, there is no life!
Thank God for His Holy Breath/Ghost/Spirit! ...and the story continues!!
Praise the living God!
Atheists
2Timothy 3: 1-17
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.