It seems to me that lately when people ask me "what's up/how are you?" I, in my attempts to be open and honest -- mind you, with people I'm only getting to know -- I'm not necessarily listened to, let alone heard, because my words are saturated with overspiritualization.
Overspiritualization; that God is behind natural disasters, 9/11, rising oil prices, the GOP, etc.
God has not changed throughout history, his nature
has however; the God of the Old Testament lead a people to war, to get to the place he prepared for them, he used disasters to bring about change to different groups of people -- especially to the Israelites.
God still could be reached by prayer; He at times changed His mind as a result! Yes prayer works, yes prayer does sometimes see results in our favor, but prayer isn't a slot machine and God isn't Mr. Potato Head -- that is, prayer isn't about getting that lucky pull and all your wants and desires get answered, and God isn't something we can shape and craft in our own image, He's not a toy, He is God and there is so much to that I can't even wrap my mind around it let alone my words.
But seriously, when people say "God caused 9/11 to happen" or "God sent Hurricane Irene to teach us a lesson" -- seriously? Your God is one who causes things to happen, to inflict pain for some object lesson or character building?
First off, how dare you say that about 9/11! Apart from it affecting our nation AND world as a whole, I lost my friend
Jeffrey Collman.
My thoughts are this;
why can't God be God and crap be crap, and let's just separate the two, okay?The nature of God has changed, bad things happen in this world because we're given freewill to do what we want to do -- for better or worse, and in the latter shit happens because
we allow it to happen, God doesn't leave the situation, He's in the situation, but he is not the
cause of the situation.
So when I hear rhetoric of "Everything happens for a reason" said positively in times of negativity, I grit my teeth and feel like punching the individual who is spouting such uncaring and thoughtless words.
Many times, when I am feeling low, feeling hurt, feeling like it's me vs. world, and I open up, hurt broken insecure doubtful trust-issues a'plenty me. I want people to listen rather than give me their two cents, I want people to listen and not give me advice, that's all I ask for, is that too much to ask?
I don't doubt God, but I do see these trials and tribulations I suffer currently aren't going to last forever, I know that I will get a job -- hopefully sooner than later -- and I will move on and out with my life, but I recognize my suffering isn't God toying with me, treating me like some kid screwing around with an anthill. He is there for me, He is HERE and He is helping me in these hard times. I don't always see Him, but that's because my focus is on
me rather than on
HimSo please, if you're of the Judeo-Christian persuasion, please consider your words and be silent if that's what you should do. If someone DOES want advice, provide it then and perhaps only then. Don't tidy it up with overspiritualization, it might do more harm than good.
Have you ever had someone give you advice that was full of spirituality but not much else? Did it help you or annoy you? Do you think God causes major disasters?
True
Comments (15)
I don't know if god causes natural disasters, and I rather doubt he does. I have been told however, that my sin caused god to punish me via my two youngest children, who both have autism, and that I need to repent. There's also a popular theory that autism doesn't exist - it's actually demon possession and the parents of autistics need to have a 'deliverance' done on our children.
1) What good will an exorcism do?
2) Why does a god who would afflict an innocent child with a lifelong disability and make him/her pay for their mother's sin deserve anyone's love, devotion or faith?
Other gems of advice I received (these were given when I still was a christian):
* submit to my abusive husband
* don't have a job which would allow me to make more money than my husband
* don't ask so many questions during bible study, having faith is enough
* don't read or watch movies in the horror/science fiction genres
* don't read/watch/otherwise expose myself to materials that don't have anything to do with christianity
Most of those delicious little nuggets came directly from my last (literally last) pastor. And yes, to be honest it annoyed the crap out of me. I was trying so hard to live up to the rules I became exhausted. Actually, burned out completely is more like it. The advice and judgements weren't the only reason I left the faith entirely, but they sure didn't help. I was afraid if I stayed I wouldn't be able to think for myself any more. My terror of going to hell kept me in an abusive marriage for ten years.
Totally with you on the overspiritualization thing. There are people with whom it is impossible to have a conversation because everything is either god's will or his 'righteous judgement'. Orc-faced Pat Robertson is one of those, and honestly, I don't know how his wife lives with him. Every time I see him on tv I think to myself, 'Gods, Pat - shut the f**k up!'. I can only imagine how she must feel, having to listen to him every day.
"Many times, when I am feeling low, feeling hurt, feeling like it's me vs. world, and I open up, hurt broken insecure doubtful trust-issues a'plenty me. I want people to listen rather than give me their two cents, I want people to listen and not give me advice, that's all I ask for, is that too much to ask?"
I think a lot of the time Christians do tend to respond to problems by "overspiritualizing" the matter, as you say. Sometimes the best thing we can do is to listen and comfort those who are hurting.
Just as it is important not to attribute every bad thing that happens to supernatural forces, it's also important to make sure you don't attribute all good things that happen to supernatural forces. God is almost certainly not responsible for your new promotion, your expedient recovery, or the victory of your favorite sports team.
I believe in a loving and just God. I also believe that things happen for a reason. Suffering is just a part of life that God allows so that we can grow spiritually. The aftermath of natural disasters inspires people to work together and help others. In addition, it also teaches us that life is precious & to not take it for granted. Those are some great life lessons that everyone, no matter what their religion, can learn.
As far as being "too spiritual," I don't have a problem with it, as long as don't push their beliefs onto me. I've had it happened before though, where they tell me I've gotta "get saved" or I'm going to hell. never understood that considering I've always believe in a higher power/God.
Seriously, if it was God's will for it to happen that way then God is some sort of sick psychopath with no regard for his own creation. That's why I refuse to believe stuff like that happens for a reason or that it was God's will.
it only annoys me because, above all else, i'm an existentialist who thinks that even though you may not be in control of everything, you are 100% in control of how you react to events. so when i'm going through a rough time, i want to find an active way to deal with it... not just sit back and see what happens. some of the worst atrocities in history have happened because people didn't feel like they could do anything to stop it.
I believe shit happens. I also believe you have bad theology. The nature of God has NOT changed. All the mercy and love that you see in the new testament, is very prevalent in the old testament, (how many times did he save his people even though they completely forgot about him? Just saying, if someone I loved turned their back on me and forgot about me completely...I probably wouldn't be quick to deliver them out of the hands of their enemies.) and the justice and vengeance of the old testament is in the new testament. The difference is, that in the new testament, all of God's wrath, all of his vengeance, was focused on Jesus. His nature has ALWAYS been both merciful AND just. We sinned and created a gap between us and God. He demanded there be justice, and thus there was a debt. The result of this, is the old testament. Then, in grace, he payed the debt, all the wrath and all the righteous vengeance himself. He subject himself to humiliation and torment and a shameful death, nailed naked to a cross to bear the judgement for the whole world. This is the basis of the Christian faith. If God's nature changes, then it is in vain.
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined
according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the
counsel of his will" -Ephesians 1:11.
God may not actively cause all incidences (we know some he does--the Bible says he "sends calamity") but he is sovereign over it. Scripture is very clear on that. This should be our biggest comfort!
While God does not delight in evil, he delights in punishing evil.
Ultimately, this is the world that God prepared for the coming and death of his son. There is trouble in the world so that Christ could be troubled, terror in the world so that Christ could be terrorized, and pain in the world so that Christ could feel pain. If there were no death or sin, there'd be no Christ or salvation. (paraphrasing this from John Piper). That's my biggest comfort.
Good blog and I'm sorry for your loss.
It just seems to me that if God is not in absolute control of everything in His creation then those things that are outside of His control could lead to His undoing at some point. So in that sense, God is not God.
A question to those who think God does not control all of histories events,
Does He have to power to stop these things from happening? If He does and allows them to happen what is the reason and what purpose does it serve?
Thinking God created 9/11, or caused a hurricane because of homosexuality, or any number of human excuses humans give concerning disasters is a really God like step in assuming we know his thoughts and behavior. I remember when some Amish little girls were killed in their school room, and Fred Phelps' group came out the next day proclaiming the children as "whores", and deserving of death. Really? Who told them that? I think we can assume God allows natural disasters to occur, and natural things happen to our bodies that we think unfair, but to assume he wants us to suffer because of our dreamed up images of him is rather blasphemous.
Many people seem to blame God for everything bad that happens. And, I only thought they did that with George W. Bush. Well, many people forget that the adversary is out there to cause harm and exact evil upon the earth. The Bible says, "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." (1 Peter 5:8) Satan is the reason the earth is fallen, the world moans and groans with the evil that transcends it. The good news is that Jesus helped usher in the kingdom of God on earth, only to be fully consummated upon His eventual return. When He does return He will establish His earthly reign where peace will rule and catastrophes will cease.
@apb102088@xanga - "Ultimately, this is the world that God prepared for the coming and death of his son. There is trouble in the world so that Christ could be troubled, terror in the world so that Christ could be terrorized, and pain in the world so that Christ could feel pain."
The part about this argument that does not make sense to me is that Christ already died and was resurrected, so once that happened, shouldn't everything bad have stopped? As far as I can tell it's "We're all saved, yay!" but nothing changed about how the world itself operates.
@Ooglick@xanga - Hello there! Thanks for the question. Indeed, we'd have a big problem if the coming and resurrection of Christ promised bad things would stop. However,nowhere does God say that bad things will now stop happening once Jesus comes. The cross is not about ending evil incidences or bringing the world into utopia, but rather, displaying God's love for his church. The apostle Paul, along with pretty much all of the other apostles, endured great suffering for the faith, countless times, and many were martyred. Having Christ is about having freedom from sin and now being seen righteous by a holy and just God. For all those who put faith in him, we will not stand alone for our sins and have to endure punishment. But, I'm becoming long-winded. Here's where I quoted John Piper from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhCWh4Gbso
@MC_Shann@xanga - The Bible answers that question by saying that God can stop evil from happening, but he allows it because1) There had to be sin in order for Christ to die. This is the world that God chose to create so that He would most be glorified and 2) He is storing up wrath for the day of judgment. He is displaying patience and kindness so that some will be brought to repentance. Then one day the fullness of his wrath against all things will be unleashed (some has already been unleashed on Christ).
Hope that helps.