Truce time.  Am I to understand that if I do not believe in eternal torment that is where I will go?  It's interesting that individual churches and pastors have so much power over content, that much is ignored, and when I touch the tip of the ice burg, I get the same stuff regurgitated to me over and over again.  It's like a game I've been playing for 22 years.  No one from a fundamentalist camp will ever touch universalist scripture and critique it, cause it's just so darn baaaaaaad.

Since we all base our faith on the aspect of grace, then I fail to see the importance if the necessity of preaching hell to young children.  When my son was but 8 years old, I was still a staunch mormon, having been raised that way.  He had been having nightmares for nearly a week, but wouldn't tell me about them.  Finally, he did. A supposed friend at school had been telling him his gramma was burning in hell since she was a dead mormon.  It's this kind of stuff that I don't think Christ would approve of.  Scaring the bejeepers out of young children, causing them to lose sleep, and to this day, he's 32, he still has vivid memories of this, and will have nothing to do with organized religion.

Dan, I'm sensing a little anger in your post.  You need not convince me of what mormons do or don't believe.  I was raised one, married in the temple, and had my children baptized in that church.  I left at the age of 35, after a mental break down in part due to my abusive marriage, and in part, due to high expectations of myself because of my belief system.  As a person with bipolar disorder, it was impossible for me to maintain the same level of work that the other women did, and when depressions would hit, as they always do, this would feed into my self loathing.  I felt less than them as a wife and mother, and as a daughter of God.  After the breakdown, suicide attempt, divorce, professional therapy that my LDS father paid for, I slowly began to see the facade for what it really is.  Two years later I met my present husband of 22 years, a devout christian who knew the Lord, and was so kind and patient with us I hardly knew how to act.  He has always told friends that he felt very strongly that I already knew the Lord as my Savior, and had no bones about marrying me and taking on my two children.  He slowly and patiently began helping me understand the concept of grace.  Even though I had my name removed, and was no longer LDS, I could not understand grace for nearly 10 years.  Christians simply do not understand the severe PTSD involved in cutting oneself off from that society.  It has many safeguards that I've not found since.  I haven't found women's groups as supportive.  I've not seen church welfare systems that actually function like theirs.  And isn't that biblical, that we care for one another during tough times?  I have found it hard to comprehend why no one else actually puts it into practice.  These things I miss, and I miss my family.  But I cannot turn my back on my God, who created me out of love, and has commanded me to love all, even though that's a huge work in progress.  All I can do for my son is love him the way Christ wants me to, and be encouraging when we have things at church that aren't controversial for him and his growing family.  I think he might allow me at some point to take his children to church, simply because he supports their stance on social justice, and we are always working with neighboring schools doing good works.  I think that might be my doorway in with him.  As far as my daughter is concerned, that's more complicated, because she's more bipolar than me, and tends to intellectualize everything.  I believe in a fair and understanding God who knows more about mental illness than we do, and isn't going to use the same yard stick on every person on the planet.  She's my first born, my heart beat, my sweet sweet girl, and she does believe historically in the person called Jesus.  Maybe her heart will be touched later on....

Dan, Thanks so much for your post.  I was beginning to feel like I'd ticked you off to the point of no return.  Please keep in mind that witnessing for mormons is a different experience than it is for others.  They do not respond to typical biblical discourse, and attempting to scare them into submission rarely works either.  If anything, they are frightened by those who question them.  If you've never lived a cult experience, there's nothing I can say to help you understand.  But, they respond to pure love.  Just being there to be-friend them, allowing your children to play with theirs, and always showing them that  you care for them above and beyond trying to convert them.  If they come from pioneer stock, the chances of them actually reading their own literature is close to nil.  It's on faith, a belief in the prophet always leading them correctly, and a respect for anyone holding the priesthood.  And they have in their pockets the proof of financial success, welfare success, and getting each other's backs when times are tough.  Like I think I mentioned, it's a tough act to follow, and I really suffered greatly for the first 10 years I was out.  Nobody understood me, nor cared to try.  I fit in with no evangelical women.  They wanted to pray over me all the time, but didn't have the time to be-friend me and get to know my trauma first hand.  For those who have come up against LSD people and their doctrine they know as well as I that it rarely works to show biblical proof.  They've been conditioned to believe the bible "As it is translated correctly", in other words, by their historians, and their scholars.  I would encourage all here to readily embrace and be-friend those LDS contacts they have at work, school, or in the neighborhood, and show them you aren't the boogey man.  They fear you.  They don't trust you.  They watch the political spectrum going on and it supports their position of distrust.  While they normally vote conservatively, I think they put more effort into thinking about each candidate than most  christians do, and my 88 yr. old LDS father, the darling of his ward, has always voted democratically, and never been questioned about it.  So the thought of them leaving, and being questioned for ALL their beliefs, is too much to bear.

I studied with the Adventists for a short period of time and didn't find cult related feelings or works that they had to do.  I actually had one friend who was baptized and welcomed as an Adventist while living with her boyfriend, and they continued to live together for 20 years before marrying, and known to her leaders.  While I did find some of the writings of Ellen G. White a little suspicious, I didn't see near the stuff I was used to, and the only weird thing I saw was worshipping on Sat., which for me, would be a non-issue.  They did have one practice that I liked, and that was the washing of feet.  The women would go into one room, and the men into another, and they would wash each other's feet.  My friend told me that if they had ill feelings towards any members, nothing humbled them more than washing the feet of those people.  I do know they are listed in Walter Martin's "Kingdom Of The Cults", however.

Dan, The Pearl Of Great Price is part of mormon doctrine.  I don't know if Ellen While named her stuff after it.  If you don't want to argue doctrine, why are you constantly cramming scripture down my throat?  Do you honestly believe I haven't read this?  Here we go again.  Romans 3:23-24  All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.  (Note:  ALL are justified freely)  Romans 5:18  Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life to all men.   Romans 8: 38-39  I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything in all of creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in christ Jesus our Lord.  Romans 11:32  God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he many have mercy on all men.  1 Cor. 15:22  For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.  And I thank you for praying for my children.  I'm not sure what you mean about my "situation." 

Dan, I hear you about the JW's.  My first mother in law is one, and at one family member's funeral, at a catholic church, she hid in the car with her face hidden by a scarf.  They live in constant fear of having something or doing something wrong that might get them kicked out, like other religious material sent in the mail.  Because once they get kicked out, it literally takes an act of God ( metaphorically speaking) to get back in.  When they do their visiting, the elders don't care if they talk about the church or not.  It's all about racking up hours to reach a certain level within the organization.  I never lived in such a way in mormonism.  Everyone there knew of my family's political beliefs and they didn't cross us over it.  I was always verbal in my feelings about verbotin subjects including priesthood duties, and I never got called on it.  I really think people need to feel free to discuss their feelings, without necessarily putting other people down.  If we don't feel free to question, then what's the point in living?  That's been my whole beef all along.  Taking all these years to find some place where people are free to question differing interpretations, and yet, still pray for one another, and not judge one's christianity.  It does no good to question a mormon's christianity, try to convince him he's not one, and pick apart scriptures to prove it.  That method simply will not work.

I love the Savior. I know He is the Son of God. I know He died for my sins, and that He loves me. He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and I feel the greatest happiness as I work together with Him to help His brothers and sisters...