I reject the idea that Allah and Yahweh are the same God. There is no salvation in the muslim religion. There is no confidence that you will go to Heaven. Yahweh, sent His son who is also God to die for us on the cross. Allah replaced Jesus who was a man, with Judas on the cross, and took Jesus to Heaven.

Under Christian tradition, Jesus rose from the dead, and defeated death, There is no resurrection of Jesus in the Muslim tradition, instead of the triumphant return of Jesus on a white horse where He conquers his enemies,  the Muslim tradition has Jesus returning to earth, and getting married and having children, as this was denied him the last time.

There are just too many differences between the two stories for both to be the same God.

@AMIGOS_WE_THREE@xanga -"The Jews are rescued from Babylon by King
Cyrus.  King Cyrus says he went to rescue the Jew's because he was
answering the request given to him by God.  Problem for Christianity and
Islam is that he called God Ahura Mazda. "

Is this based on Persian records? I just ask because the Jewish records show him referring to God as YHWH (e.g. Ezra 1:2).

" Hey wait a minute, the concept of a coming
Messiah is first mentioned in Isaiah.  Hey that's really weird since
that is when the Jew's first had contact with Cyrus."

That depends on when you date Isaiah. If you give it a late date, then sure. If you date it according to when it claims to be written, then no.

It's clear that, as they are presented, God cannot be both the being described by the Bible and the being described by the Koran. Supposing Christianity were true, then the question "Is Yahweh Allah?" translates to "How similar is the non-existent Allah of Islamic belief to the God of Christian belief?" 

Unlike the original question, this question has no yes or no answer. It's a matter of how significant you value some traits of God and whether Allah shares similar traits. (This sounds almost heretic, the idea of dissecting God like a block of balsa wood). 

I don't even know where to begin with this absurd idea. The first pillar of Islam "There is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his prophet" is the anti trinitarian battle cry of Islam itself... Those of us that claim Christ is part of the triune God are committing "shirk" by associating a partner with God.

Surah Maryam (verses 88 – 95) states " And they say: “The Most Gracious (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children).” Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins, That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Gracious (Allah). But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Gracious (Allah) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children). There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Gracious (Allah) as a slave. Verily He knows each one of them, and has counted them a full counting. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).

I assume that Miroslav Volf tries to re-imagine the cultural context that these verses came to us by? Or he uses the mediocre follower to paint what orthodox Islam believes. True orthodox Christianity holds to the Athanasian creed which I assure anyone reading this, makes any comparison to the god of Islam like comparing apples to oranges.

Grace and peace!

~Michael

@kk_grayfox@xanga - I agreed with your comment until the last part of your last sentence. I also think that Muhammad might have started out as a true Christian, maybe a sort of prophet, but after reading the Koran and seeing his attitudes towards some things, and his contradictory stances on christians (which you referred to), I'm inclined to believe that he was turned off, and went away from the God of Christianity, and met something different. Kinda like what you said except I don't think he stayed following Yahweh, and if you want to get really spiritual, I'd say that Allah might be a false god (like the Baals described in the OT).

@nodnarbassoon@xanga - "I don't think he stayed following Yahweh,
and if you want to get really spiritual, I'd say that Allah might be a
false god (like the Baals described in the OT)."

I didn't mean he continued to follow YHWH, but that initially he may have interacted with and/or followed YHWH. So ultimately, Allah does not equal YHWH. I just meant that if he initially communicated with a God (as in THE God) then it would have been synonymous with YHWH. Allah could have just been a different name adapted to Him (since Allah was originally the name of a pagan god).

@MC_Shann@xanga - "The first pillar of Islam "There is no god
but Allah and Mohammad is his prophet" is the anti trinitarian battle
cry of Islam itself"

Does not the entirety of the Bible say that there is no God but YHWH Himself? You could argue that Muhammad misunderstood the Trinity, or was conveyed incorrectly to him, but it's certainly not incorrect to say that the Judeo-Christian God is the only God.

I understand that the Surah you quoted is clearly attacking the divinity of Jesus, but that's besides the point.

@kk_grayfox@xanga - We know God by His attributes and divine names and NOT by His essence. Then, if the attributes of the God of Judaism and those of the God of Jesus Christ are not exactly the same, I don't see how you can say they are the same God. Simply put, one example: if the God of Judaism does not have a Son who will be incarnated as the Savior of the elect from all peoples, how can this "god" be the same as that of Jesus Christ. 

@StatelessPilot - Here is an educated man . I saw an interesting video of Jewish authority claiming Islam was the first and oldest of the connected faiths.

@kk_grayfox@xanga - I see and understand what you're saying but while both religions agree and confirm monotheism, the attack on Jesus as the one true God is exactly the point. In the post above, Nick makes mention that the author says " all the things that Islam rejects about the trinity are also rejected by orthodox Christian formulations of the trinity." This statement is so blatantly false that just reading it should sound alarms and draw red flags in the Christian mind.

The Lordship of Jesus is the cornerstone of Christianity. If He is not God then only a man has attempted to save us from our sins and there is no atonement. The character qualities of the God of the bible are covenantal. He saves a people for Himself through a divine act of His grace alone. The god of the Koran states that ones scales must be tilted toward righteousness and even then one cannot be sure. Even the prophet Mohammad states that he is unsure what Allah will do with him. How scary is that? Islams greatest and final prophet is unsure how he will be dealt with! That is so very telling when it comes to the character qualities of the god of Islam. However, in the bible we see the character of the one true God, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us and gave Himself as a ransom. How awesome is that???

Grace and peace!

~Michael

@MC_Shann@xanga - Hello sir, you wrote "You might want to research where the Jew's first got their concept of a coming Messiah from as well as some of our other "Jewish/Christian" concepts and practices."

I would argue that the concept of the Messiah is found long before Isaiah. The concept in it's purist form can be found in what is called the proto-evangelion in Genesis chapter 3 in verse 15,  In one sentence, addressed to the Serpent, God divulges the plan of salvation: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" An individual from among the woman's seed, namely Christ, shall deal a death blow and utter defeat to Satan at the cross, while Satan would bruise Christ's heel, that is, cause Him to suffer.

Now historically speaking we can see that this concept was long held to even before what would come to be known as Judaism. The book of Job predates all other books of the Old Testament and in it we see a clear example of the atonement concepts held by Jews and Christians. It is possible that Job was written nearly 2000 years before Mohammad was even born and perhaps over a thousand + years before Isaiah.

This might move you to to try to point out that other religions have similar concepts of messiah like saviors and resurrection myths BUT while many of these religions CAN be found in antiquity and in some cases even predate the Judaic/Christian writings, the specific texts that claim any similarities to any Christ like persons are shown to be added centuries later. I cannot stress this enough.

Hope this makes sense...

Grace and peace!

~Michael

@routergenie@xanga - Jesus quotes verses from the Torah and Nevi'im (Jewish Bible) left and right, and they all refer to the Jewish God. Jesus took part in the Jewish festivals initiated by the same God. Jesus HAD to be Jewish or else His messiahship would be bunk, and this messiah was foretold by the same God. All of the NT writers referred to Jesus as being sent from the Jewish God.

Please explain what you mean by the Jewish God and Jesus' God being different, because every NT reference that I can think of counters this idea. What you're saying actually reminds me of the Gnostic teaching that the Jewish YHWH was some sort of inferior god that sort of bumbled around in his exploits with man, whereas Jesus came to reveal the REAL God (keeping in mind that this teaching is technically polytheistic). If that's what you believe, then that's fine, but I just want to understand where you're deriving this idea from.

"Also, didn't Jesus say in John 8:44 "You are
of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires"?
This is not a qualitative statement but a quantitative statement. The
God of Judaism and that who is Jesus' heavenly father CANNOT be the same
god."

That's him talking to the Pharisees whom he regularly referred to as hypocrites. He's pointing out that they don't really follow YHWH, they follow "devil". Not knowingly of course, but their behaviors seem self-evident to Jesus. Elsewhere there are verses about Jews truly following God, and there's not reason to infer that it must be referring to a god other than YHWH since the whole NT is in a Jewish context (though, obviously, it has more gentile references than the OT).