By Dean LuskI've got a couple of killer posts coming up. One is about my dog, and one is about a song that someone else wrote that inspired me. On the edge of your seat, eh? No doubt. Who could blame you?
In the meantime I have a question for you. I've observed that... well, more of you read posts than reply to them. That's a given for any blog. But I want you to overcome your fear of what someone will say about your thoughts, and give me some feedback. I want to know what you believe about what I'm about to ask and why you believe it. (And we'll all need to deeply ponder the word "believe.")
When you consider what it means to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, or to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead (lots in Romans 10 and 11 about this), do you understand "believe" to be a one-time event -- a snapshot, as it were -- or a continual activity or process? Or something in between or even different altogether?
In other words, does Scripture say that a person must hold to "belief" for better or worse, or that a one-time event brings salvation? If you've been in the Protestant church for any lenght of time, you may have heard these words: "Has there been a time in your life at which you trusted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?" Legit or not? Why or why not?
You can use as few words as you like or as many as you like. You can reference the Greek. You can say it's an unfair question. My main request is that when you comment, address it to me, to the blog post; not to another commenter, no matter how badly you want to offer a rebuttal. Do your best, anyway.
I'll be working on those other two mammoth posts while you leap for the "comment" link...
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Comments (11)
For me it was both. Even though I believed in Him from the time I was very young, because I had been taught of Him, there was a time in my life when the Lord manifested Himself to me through the Holy Spirit as I read the Bible. I then “believed” in a very real sense and knew that He was my Savior and Redeemer.
However, that was just the beginning of my responsibility to “believe” in Him. If we truly “believe,” we want to follow and become like Jesus. We study His word and pray to the Father in His name. We strive to serve and love others as He did. We learn of His commandments and obey them. If “enduring to the end” is required, as Jesus assured us it is, then true belief is not just an event, but is a choice and a life style.
I don't know, since I've never studied Greek, Latin or any of those other ancient languages.
I do know the exact date, time, place and who was in the room when I accepted Christ however. It was 1:22pm (Pacific time) on Thursday, December 31, 2009. The other person in the room was a guy named Jason. Not going to reveal the location.
Ah, perhaps you are referencing the great Free Grace vs Lordship Salvation debate? Or perhaps the "perseverance of the saints" point in 5 point Calvinism? Or are you referencing John 10:28-29 which suggests eternal security? I am more recently beginning to lean towards a more middle-ground view on eternal security. I would say that eternal security is secure in that you cannot be 'stolen' away through temptation or sin, but that it does NOT usurp free will. Ie: if you accept Christ, I think it could be possible that you can renounce him. For this I reference 2 Timothy 2:11-13. Verse 11 says "if we died with him, we will also live with him." Ie: accept, believe, be saved. Verse 12a says "if we endure, we will also reign with him." Lordship would use this to say that we must persevere to receive salvation, but I believe it is talking about either reigning in the millennial kingdom or treasures in heaven. There is nothing to suggest that all those in heaven "reign" at all. Verse 12b says "if we DISOWN him, he will also disown us." This suggests that we CAN renounce our faith, or that security does not negate free will. Verse 13 says "if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself." This is where I believe it all comes together. If we accept and believe, we are saved. If we persevere we receive greater treasure, such as crowns and reigning in the millennial kingdom. But even if we become "faithless", ie: question our faith, succumb to temptation, or even fall back into continuous sin (ie: carnal Christian), God will not disown us unless we renounce our faith.
This is critical because it gives (and should give) Christians peace about the "am I saved" question. It is a terrible thing to think that each time we lack perseverance or question our faith that we might be hell-bound. In this way, if we make an active heartfelt decision to accept the saving grace of Christ, only a heartfelt decision to reject that power can remove us from it. In this way, we are not "snatched" out of the father's hand, nor are we continually "saved then not saved then saved". And for the record, I am Free Grace and not Calvinistic.
Oh, and personally I was saved when I was ten and I accepted Christ. I did have a period when I wasn't growing as a Christian (ie: wasn't praying, wasn't studying, wasn't really paying attention to my faith at all). God called me back to active faith, and that has been a blessing, but I don't feel that at any point in time if I had been hit by a train or struck by divine lightning that I might have risked going to hell. "If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself." Praise God for a loving Creator.
I came to know the Lord more fully when I exited mormonism at the age of 35, however, it took me a full ten years to comprehend grace. Just didn't get it. And no church where I went did anything supportive for me. I was treated as though I should know everything they did. And finally after finding what I thought was a home, for 6 years, in a Baptist church, the pastor asked me to leave because he found out I was a democrat, and said Christians couldn't be democrats. I'd have to say the PTSD I suffered as a fundamentalist exceeded that of leaving mormonism. I'm now in a place of total peace, in a Presbyterian congregation that actually does what it espouses. Good works for the community, whether they be Christian or not. And my personal studies have brought me closer to a universalist look at the Bible, and closer to what Jesus actually saw through his eyes, and not the cultural norms of the OT, or NT.
Just another thought, since being saved was mentioned here. That seems to be the magic formula for wanna be Christians. Say the magic words. "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Does it say in this life only? And where?
I believe a one time event begins your relationship with God, but it is a life long process of continually growing and learning and being a disciple of Christ.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. We who have believed in Christ for the forgiveness of sins so that our faith is in His free gift of grace where we had no claim to know or relate to God, have done so by the faith given us to believe. Salvation is all of grace. We all know that we cannot ascend into heaven or build a tower to reach to heaven ( I have heard of a new material that may enable man to build a tower several miles high! However, that is always going to be too short to reach God.)
My point is that when we talk about salvation/believing, etc. we always tend to think from man's side of it. "Can we believe long enough, strong enough, purely enough, or show it enough?" God doesn't have the same problem that we have. In the first place, being the Author of our salvation and faith, He knows what it takes to receive His free gift. He is never in doubt as to our sincerity. Those who are pretenders don't receive from Him because they are not really asking of Him, but going through the motions not having been called as yet and not understanding what they do. Some intend to use a "profession" as a means of gaining access into the world of Christians. They are dissimulators, hypocrites, liars. Others just haven't heard the word of faith and still may be saved at a later date.
The gospel is the account of God paying for our sin in His own Son once for all and forever. We make it difficult for ourselves by making rules or benchmarks for other believers to follow and meet, but what we fail to understand is that we also bring ourselves under the same law by doing so.
Knowing God and growing in His grace to know Him more fully is a lifetime of joy and gladness for those of us who know that He is our loving Father and is good all of the time. Not only that but we know that He promises that all things, ALL THINGS, work together for our good - for those who are His children. As far as becoming "like" Him, we may imitate what we have seen in Christ during His walk among us, but we continuallly fall short - we must never deceive ourselves into thinking that we "have arrived."
when i was Christian, the religion wasn't something i actively believed in. it was presented to me as something as proven as gravity. but when i chose to become a non-Christian (first as a Wiccan, then a theist, and now as an agnostic) it was definitely a single moment of decision. and i guess you could say that non-belief is a continuous state......... but that's like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby.
@too_pretty, "...that's like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby."
Sounds like something I've heard in discussions with non-theists, and I think it's a fair statement looking at things from your perspective.
I'm grateful for all these comments. @BetweenFineLines, I believe I'd come closest to your position and understanding of Scripture.
@Pollypinks, what does the context of that verse say? Before Paul quoted that passage from Isaiah to the church at Rome, he prefaced it by saying, "Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God." (Romans 14:10, NLT)
Need to close for now. Hope to come back and make a few more comments after I pull the ribs off the grill! w00t!
"Salvation" is not a "one time" thing, so neither is belief. We aren't here to obtain some get-out-of-jail free card that we keep in our pockets, redeemable upon death or the second coming, whichever comes first. We exist to have a relationship with God, in all his manifestations.
Is it possible to have a relationship with a stranger you meet at the bus stop and never see again, and is it possible that relationship could change your life? Sure, but it wouldn't be the same relationship you have with a spouse, a child or a dear friend.
The more mature your relationship with God, the more abundant the blessings you enjoy because of it.