Wednesday, 01 June 2011
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The Intolerant, Judgmental Jesus
Recent comments I’ve read around Xanga reveal that a certain attitude toward Jesus is very much alive and well – the notion that Jesus is very tolerant, accepting, and non-judgmental. This Jesus, they say, doesn’t really mind my immorality, my bad language, or my binge drinking. After all, Jesus forgave sinners; he refused to condemn the woman caught in adultery; he ate with tax-cheats and prostitutes. He basically just said, “Love one another.” Jesus was an open-minded dude. In contrast to this “Jesus-dude” we have the real Jesus – the Jesus of the Bible, who was tolerant of sinners, but not sin; who was broad-minded about who He ate with, but not about the way of salvation; who was non-judgmental while teaching and healing, but promised a future judgment on all wickedness. The real Jesus was so accepting that anyone could approach Him regardless of station or condition, and He was so demanding that many went away sad, disappointed, or angry.
Jesus was intolerant of sin. He named those things which make a person unclean – evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These things exist in a person’s heart even before they manifest outwardly. Sin is so serious, Jesus said, that if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. This may be hyperbole, but His point is clear – continued deliberate sin will lead to hell. You can’t live an unrepentant life and still enter the kingdom of God (see Eph 5:3-5; Heb 10:26-31; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Rev 21:8).
Jesus is accepting of people no matter who they are. He welcomes all who come to Him, but His welcome is not “Come as you are and stay as you are.” Instead, He says “Come as you are and be changed – transformed – into God’s children.” He described this radical transformation as being “Born again.” It is no mere improvement in our present condition; no mere moral code for us to follow, but a total spiritual rebirth, the receiving of a new Spirit and a new God-honoring outlook on life.
Jesus was narrow-minded about the way of salvation. Most people, He said, are headed for destruction. They are traveling on a broad road – a road that is easier, more popular, and more open-minded. It is a road where you do your thing and I’ll do mine and we’ll both be merry along the way. That is, until we reach our destination.
Eternal Life, on the other hand, is only found by entering through a small gate and traveling a narrow road. This is the one way – the only way – of salvation. “I am the way” Jesus said. “I am the gate.” We enter that gate by believing in Jesus (trust in, cling to, rely on). We trust that Jesus is who He claimed to be – Messiah and Lord. He is our Lord if we deny ourselves and submit to His Word instead; if we have faith in His blood sacrifice. This is the narrow way.
Finally, Jesus is judgmental. Of course His first coming was to save the world, not judge it. But He stated plainly that God had appointed Him as Judge, and that the time for judgment was approaching. While He was here He judged the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to be righteous. He judged those who disputed His identity as being “children of the devil.” He judged all the Jews of His time, saying, “Unless you repent, you too will all perish.” At no time did Jesus imply that it’s okay to just be ourselves and live according to our own natural desires. Instead, He tells us to lose ourselves and find our new identity in Him.
Yes, there are just some things Jesus will not tolerate, and He can sometimes be quite narrow-minded. But His intolerance and judgment are born out of love for you and me. How loving would it be if Jesus didn’t tell us the truth? In fact, anyone interested in Truth will gladly receive His judgments and His intolerance for sin. He calls everyone to repent, believe, and embark along the narrow road which leads to Life.
This post is about the real Jesus – the Jesus of historical record, whose words are found in the Bible along with the teachings of His hand-picked apostles. I’m not describing some made-up Jesus – the one who is carefree and tolerant of all ideas and behaviors. That Jesus is fiction.
Is the Jesus you believe in tolerant or intolerant? Judgmental or carefree? Can Jesus be a little of both?
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- From: A_Piano_Tuner@xanga
- Name: Don
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Comments (44)
Truth.
This is just me thinking aloud, and I'm hoping you or someone else can discuss this. The idea of Jesus judging:
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not
judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it." -John 12:47
"You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one." -John 8:15
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but
to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned,
but whoever does not believe
stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of
God’s one and only Son." -John 3:17-18
I heard someone put it once that though God gave Jesus judgment over all
mankind, He did not come to judge. Rather men judge and condemn
themselves. Any thoughts?
"Jesus was narrow-minded about the way of salvation." I think there is a better way of putting this. Stating it like this can be easily taken out of context and then your whole point goes out the window...
"Recent comments I’ve read around Xanga reveal that a certain
attitude toward Jesus is very much alive and well – the notion that
Jesus is very tolerant, accepting, and non-judgmental. This Jesus, they
say, doesn’t really mind my immorality, my bad language, or my binge
drinking. After all, Jesus forgave sinners; he refused to condemn the
woman caught in adultery; he ate with tax-cheats and prostitutes. He
basically just said, “Love one another.” Jesus was an open-minded dude.
In
contrast to this “Jesus-dude” we have the real Jesus – the Jesus of the
Bible, who was tolerant of sinners, but not sin; who was broad-minded
about who He ate with, but not about the way of salvation; who was
non-judgmental while teaching and healing, but promised a future
judgment on all wickedness. The real Jesus was so accepting that anyone
could approach Him regardless of station or condition, and He was so
demanding that many went away sad, disappointed, or angry."
I understand what you are saying here but I think when many non believers or "Semi-Christians" Mention this they aren't saying Jesus isn't damning anyone, they are saying it is not A Christians place to judge and Christians are to not throw stones. Even he who was sinless did not stone Marry because he was setting the example.
Only Jesus/God has the right to place judgment not anyone else. Yes Christians are to spread the word and witness in a LOVING non judgmental manner. as in there are ways to go about things with out shoving what you feel down others throats and respecting them and weather they chose to believe or not.
@kk_grayfox@xanga - "I heard someone put it once that though God gave Jesus judgment over all
mankind, He did not come to judge. Rather men judge and condemn
themselves. Any thoughts?"
I think the meaning here is we all have freewill and will take our path of choice... But others can say that no who did not come here to condemn anyone. He came here to bring salvation but when "judgment day comes." after his death and rebirth he will then judge the choices made...
Why only paint half a picture of who Jesus is or why try to create a denomination of half truths?
John 3:17 For God sent NOT his Son into the world to CONDEMN the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jesus is God and as God he didn't come to condemn the world because if the world believes not then it is because we are condemned already:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
There are other issues than seeing the world only in right and wrong because if you are fighting a battle of right and wrong when a person's eternal destiny is at stake and there are some things more important than right and wrong.
These verses show that Jesus taught repentance:
Mark 1:14 ¶ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
There are examples where people talked about their repentance with Jesus:
Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore [him] fourfold.
There are also examples where Jesus cursed because He exercised attributes of God towards things which didn't bare fruit:
Matthew 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Matthew 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, *TILL* he send forth judgment unto victory.
What does the world "till" mean in this passage? He won't quench until when? He will accept you until when? He accepts me because I had my sin paid for.
He is intolerant or He is loving? He taught believers to love one another:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
@kk_grayfox@xanga - I mentioned that Jesus came first to save, not judge, but He stated plainly, "As the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man." This speaks of a future judgment.
Peter the apostle preached after Jesus' resurrection, "He (Jesus) commanded us to preach... and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead." Acts 10:42
Paul preached, "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." Acts 19:30-31
Paul instructs Timothy: "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead..." 2 Tim 4:1
The point of all this is that Jesus came first to proclaim forgiveness and salvation; to make a way by His death and resurrection. He did this so that those who listen to Him and submit to His lordship might avoid the judgment to come. Everything He preached had to do with entering the kingdom of heaven rather than hell / judgment. He warned that the Last Day was coming, like a thief, and those who weren't ready would face God's wrath. Jesus is the coming judge.
@A_Piano_Tuner@xanga - The idea communicated by this pastor is that it's sort of an unexpected move by God. He thinks that God made Jesus the judge (so He has the authority to judge), but Jesus does not wish to judge. It's like appointing a vegetarian to be a butcher, but since he hates slicing and dicing meat he refuses to actually do any butchering.
I understand the argument that it's a temporal thing (i.e. salvation now, judgment later). I'm just pondering this alternative thought.
@MommyMarty22@xanga - This post really isn't about Christians judging other people. It is about a false perception of Jesus as a carefree, non-judgmental buddy who really doesn't mind sinful behavior. That's not the Jesus of the Bible.
@Chuckt - Yes, Jesus came the first time to preach repentance so that we might avoid His future judgment. He was loving toward people, but condemning toward sin, because sin leads to hell. He warned the Jews to repent of their sins because "judgment day" was coming. I never said Jesus isn't loving, I said He loves us so much that He tells us the hard truth - sin leads to hell / repentance and faith lead to Life.
@kk_grayfox@xanga - BTW, I agree that people will be self-condemned. Jesus once said that we will be judged guilty or innocent by our own words (Mt 12:36). Still, someone has to have the authority to pass judgment on the condemned, and Jesus is the one God has appointed. As far as Him being "reluctant" to judge - like a vegetarian butcher - I'm not so sure. It seems more apparent that the time for (ultimate) judgment had simply not arrived yet. Mercy and grace first - judgment later. Interestingly, on several occasions Jesus implied that some degree of judgment was already taking place, e.g. "For judgment I have come into this world... Now is the time for judgment on the world..." etc.
@A_Piano_Tuner@xanga - "@MommyMarty22@xanga - This
post really isn't about Christians judging other people. It is about a
false perception of Jesus as a carefree, non-judgmental buddy who really
doesn't mind sinful behavior. That's not the Jesus of the Bible."
I understood that.. I'm just saying maybe that is the reason why non Christians bring the "Jesus-Dude" Up so much...
I'm not sure people see weather they are Christian or not, Jesus as carefree. They just see his example to be more loving.
I'm not saying that Jesus is a one sided individual.. I guess I just don't agree with the words chosen in the post. As a Christian regardless of your personal reasoning wouldn't it be best to chose your wording in a less off putting manor? Regardless if you meant to speak about Christians placing judgment on others that's what it lead to in my mind as a reader.
LOL I'm sorry I'm very tired and not sure if I'm even using the words I want to use. I figure though since your an adult who studies the word you will have a little understanding to what I'm saying... If not my bad... I'll try again when my brain is ll here...
"Jesus was intolerant of sin. He named those things which make a
person unclean – evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality,
theft, false testimony, slander. These things exist in a person’s heart
even before they manifest outwardly. Sin is so serious, Jesus said, that
if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you to
sin, gouge it out. This may be hyperbole, but His point is clear –
continued deliberate sin will lead to hell."
Is Jesus 'intolerant?' MW definition: unable or unwilling to endure. That doesn't seem consistent with Jesus' behavior as described in the gospels, does it...He totally seems willing to endure it...and even forgive it, right? And sin when it is finished (full grown) brings forth death (james 1:15)...the meaning of which seems different than 'deliberate sin,' but maybe I'm just being a nudge.
So who is your target audience for this post? Is it the non-Christian that you want to convince to repent (using a book they may or may not believe is true)? Or is the 'semi-Christian' that somehow is confused that wallowing in sin might be unhelpful to an abundant life? Or is it the Christian that you think 'doesn't get' that sin is a 'big deal?' Or are you just advocating repentance as a great way to walk in freedom from shame and guilt...and a way into deeper relationship with God?
If its the last one then, gosh, you used a lot of shame and guilt to make your point.
God bless you, dude!
@A_Piano_Tuner@xanga - "It is about a false perception of Jesus as a carefree, non-judgmental buddy who really doesn't mind sinful behavior."
You forgot that Jesus is merciful, loving, longsuffering, pardoning, atoning, forgetting, forgiving, etc.
What do you call "forgiveness"? If it isn't in His mind then it is already judged and we are judged no more on it (1 Cor. 11:31).
Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, [so] far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
Hebrews 8:12 For 3754 I will be 2071 merciful 2436 to their 846 unrighteousness 93, and 2532 their 846 sins 266 and 2532 their 846 iniquities 458 will I remember 3415 no 3364 more 2089.
Hebrews 10:17 And 2532 their 846 sins 266 and 2532 iniquities 458 846 will I remember 3415 no 3364 more 2089.
Hebrews 12:3 ¶ For consider him that endured such contradiction (rebellion) of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Don't forget he is joyful over us with longsuffering:
Colossians 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Judgmentalism says you don't make it and you can't get in. Find another definition for God's judgmentalism:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It means that His judgment has higher things than right or wrong and that some may get in because He has some higher reasoning which is mercy and love. He paid the price for you because there are some higher things than right and wrong. That is why you shouldn't preach half the Bible.
@A_Piano_Tuner@xanga - "For judgment I have come into this world... Now is the time for judgment on the world..."
Those verses sound familiar but I don't remember them exactly. Could you find them by any chance?
@kk_grayfox@xanga - My thoughts on what you're discussing is that they are correct for Jesus when He came. His purpose was extremely specific, and as He said, He did ALL the works that His Father sent Him to perform. So I think He had a very specific mission; those who would not believe in Jesus were judged by His word, which also said that those who do not believe are condemned.
However, Jesus is returning a second time, and in this 2nd time, He is returning for a different purpose; to Judge (that is where the whole story of "faithful separated onto his right, and unfaithful onto his left" comes from. That wasn't his purpose coming the last time around, but it will be the next time around).
@kk_grayfox@xanga - Whoops, @A_Piano_Tuner@xanga - already answered and did a far better job than mine. Refer to that one! :D
Well said!
@kk_grayfox@xanga - Both are from the gospel of John - 9:39 and 12:31. The best tool to have is a Bible with a concordance at the end. You can look up a word like "judgment" and see all the references at a glance. There are many other verses as well where Jesus (or others) speaks of judgment.
@god_stories@xanga - My main target with this post is a false perception of Jesus no matter who holds it. We spend much time teaching about love and mercy, grace and forgiveness, and without a doubt those are key elements of the Good News. But at times we succeed in painting a lop-sided picture of Christ, a sort of "universalist" Christ who dismisses sin with a carefree wave of His hand, as if it were nothing. This is the "Jesus-dude" quite a few people believe in.
I am pointing out that sin is definitely something. The forgiveness that comes so freely was purchased by the suffering and death of an innocent man, and without that sacrifice we would literally be objects of God's wrath. Jesus was "intolerant" of sin in that, according to Him, sin will keep a person out of His kingdom. That's why He preached, exhorted, wept for repentance on the part of the people. When I speak of "deliberate" sin, I refer to the fact that even believers sin... we fail to live perfectly, and we confess and receive forgiveness. But there is another type of sin - identified in 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 10:26-31 - this willful, unrepentant sin leads to ceertain condemnation, and this is the very sin indulged in by some who believe in the "Jesus-dude." They have a false notion that Jesus is okay with it. He's not, and that's the point of this post.
@Chuckt - I didn't know it was possible to preach the whole Bible in one Xanga post! The point of this entry is quite narrow - to refute false perceptions about Jesus. Love, forgiveness, and mercy are all part of the Good News... I didn't forget them. What I am saying is that Jesus preached the necessity of repentance in order to receive forgiveness. He is not okay with our continued sin. We are called to live holy lives, and no one should be deceived into thinking that Jesus is so "laid back" that He doesn't care if we sin or not. He does. "The Lord will judge His people." Heb 10:30
@A_Piano_Tuner@xanga -
For God so judged the world or loved the world?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Since Jesus took my punishment, I can't be judged:
Romans 8:1 ¶ [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
This is what we were:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
I went from "such were some of you" to being made kings and priests:
Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
"Because of your love, we're forgiven."- Paul Baloche
so jesus is intolerant and judgmental. fine. "how now shall you live?"
You took a good swing at the confusion which abounds about Jesus; and I think you hit the mark! Nonetheless, from the comments it is evident confusion remains among many. The god of this world is still spreading misinformation; and people are still falling for it. But you, keep preaching His good news in season and out!
My two cents: Jesus corrects me gently everyday and He will still be correcting me until I am made perfect the day I see Him face-to-face. Woe awaits those who reject Him and His corrections. And this makes me sad for them.
@Chuckt - Piano Tuner never denied that Jesus taught repentance. Which is exactly why he states in his post here that you can't live an unrepentant life & still enter the kingdom of God.
Quoting from you now (including your chosen verses):
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
"Since Jesus took my punishment, I can't be judged:
Romans 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
If you read that, not only is it showing Jesus' love & goodness, but it is promising judgment for all those who do not believe in Jesus - who do not walk after the Spirit but instead with the flesh. Nothing you've said has been in conflict with what Piano Tuner said. In fact, you're painting the wrong picture. That because Jesus died - ALL are forgiven. No. All COULD BE forgiven IF they CHOOSE CHRIST, follow Him & deny their sinful fleshly desires. Which isn't to say we'll now be perfect but that we'll be striving for it, trying to be like Christ. As all the verses show - those who do not choose Christ will face judgment and condemnation. You're ignoring that we have a choice to make before we can receive God's grace.
Piano Tuner also mentioned that Jesus was approachable by anyone. That statement IMO implies Jesus' love for us all - that he loves & accepts us more than society does (contrary to society's views).
@Chuckt - I'm not sure what you object to. You quote John 3:16 which has to do with Jesus' first coming to save the world. The judgments I speak of mainly pertain to His second coming, when He will judge the living and the dead. I'm not saying you'll be condemned, I'm saying those who have no faith or repentance when He comes again will be judged (actually, He says that, not me).
@MommyMarty22@xanga - I know what it's like to have a tired brain.
I purposely used words like "intolerant" and "judgmental" because so many non-believers and semi-believers think Jesus is "tolerant" and "non-judgmental." I want to point out that some things - like sin or unbelief - are not okay with Jesus (contrary to popular opinion). That, in fact, He will one day execute severe judgment on unrepentant sin and unbelief. It seems like quite a few folks don't realize that... they think Jesus is a laid-back, open-minded, spiritual zen master. I wanted to counter that false picture. Are you awake yet?! 