Monday, 02 May 2011
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God Doesn't Send People to Hell: They Go There
Why is it that a majority of the population seems to believe that God is "sending" us to hell? When did this switch in thinking happen? For some strange reason that I've tried for years to understand, people have made God out to be this condemning, judgmental, bully that forces us to believe and serve him or else. I don't know what preacher they were listening to or what bible they were reading, but last time I checked, that's not how the story goes.God doesn't "send" us to hell. Hell was created for the devil, not for people. In the book of Genesis, we are presented with the story of Adam and Eve and what is called the Fall of Man. As we take a look into the story, you find that God has created man (and woman) in his own image and all that jazz, pretty much because he wants kids, folks to love on him, make him happy, you know, like any good father would want. So he creates them, puts them in this flippin' awesome garden with everything you could ever want or need, and tells Adam, "So, just take care of things around here, make it look nice, watch over the animals, and I'll stop by every so often to see how you're doing. Oh, and see that tree over there? The one right by the Tree of Life? It's the Tree of Knowledge. Don't eat the fruit on that one." That was the only rule. He could look at it, touch it, have a picnic under it, heck, probably do the deed with Eve under it, but he just couldn't eat the fruit. Consider it like the "Tithe tree" that was dedicated to God. That was His, and Adam could have the other 90% of the garden. Pretty simple, right?
Now let's recap back to Satan, or Lucifer as he was going by at the time, up in heaven. This dude had it made. He was hangin' with God in his pad, making music. He was the ultimate choir director. I've even heard it said that he could make any musical sound from his body. It just emanated from him as if he was the instrument. I don't know if that was correct or not, but either the dude knew his music and his job in heaven was to make it for the Lord. So he's doing his thing, making music, and get's this idea his head. He begins to think that he's better than God and should be on top, the head honcho, the Big Guy. God hears his thought (yes, as in his actual thoughts, before he spoke it out loud), and casts him out of heaven along with 1/3 of the angels that "rallied to the devil's cause". The devil is pretty much exiled to earth with the sentence of eternity in the Lake of Fire when God brings the New Heaven and New Earth (check out Revelations for that story). So, it's pretty safe to say the Devil is pissed off. He just got out shot out from heaven like a comet along with his groupies and now has to roam to and fro about the earth until God pulls his tab and sends him to Hell. So he gets this plan.
Satan, being the sly devil he is (pun intended), devises a plan to take what God loves the most and corrupt it. Flash back to the Garden. In comes the snake and you know the rest of the story. He tricks Eve, who then gives the fruit to Adam, and the rest is history. (I'd like to point out that the bible never says the fruit is an apple. Also, that Sin was committed until Adam ate a piece. Just clearing some air there). So in comes God, coming to hang with Adam like he promised, and finds them hiding and wearing the latest fashion. There's a WTF? moment, Adam confesses, God already knows but appreciates the honesty, and he's forced to remove himself from the close personal relationship he had with them since he can't associate himself with sin. Also, I'd like to point out that before the eating of the fruit, it was pretty much assumed that Adam and Eve would live forever (especially seeing as how there was a "Tree of Life" in the garden. Duh.) and that there would be no pain and suffering, etc. But now, men was work hard for their money, deal with colds, broken bones, and women have labor pains... I think the men got the better end of the deal. And to top it all off, since Devil, and his groupies, and anything to do with death and sin must be sent to hell at the end of all this, now man is subject to the same fate.
But God doesn't like this. He loves us and doesn't want us to go to hell. So God, being God and all-knowing and stuff, has a back-up plan.
God: "Alright angels, so I'm gonna make man, but I don't want them to be robots.... I'm gonna give them Free Will."
Angels: "Um, are you sure that's a good idea? What if they decide not to love you? That's kinda risky."
God: "Yeah, I know. But I have faith in them. They know my voice and can feel my love for them. I believe they'll follow me."
Angels: "Alright. You know best..."
God: *turns to Jesus sitting at his right hand* "Okay Son. So this is what I'm going to do..."
Flash forward to the New Testament. Jesus lives a sinless life, takes on our sins, dies. Death, only seeing our sins plastered all over him, snatches him up and takes him to the Grave. But the Jesus whoops up on him, cause Death over-stepped it's bounds. It took a sinless man which is a no-no. So Jesus takes the keys of Death, Hell, and the Grave, and resurrects himself, reclaiming our souls.He has a chat with the disciples, tells the to spread the word, get people Saved, and bring 'em back to God. Because he misses us. He misses loving us and blessing us and communing with us. So really, God isn't sending us to hell. We were already going there regardless, thanks to Adam's little incident. And God didn't like that. So he gave us an escape plan. "Believe in Me and receive eternal life." Why do you think it's called Salvation? Cause it sounds good? No. It's because that's what it is. A way out of a really sucky end. If the Devil is afraid of Hell's fires, why do you think God, who loves us , would be willing send us there? He wouldn't. And he Died on a Cross to prove it. That's the real story.
Do you think God sends people to hell? Where in scripture does is say whether or not God plays any part in the act of someone going to hell?
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About the Author
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- From: vajbff@xanga
- Name: VicKy
- About Me: I'm still gathering the right words to explain myself... it's been a life-long pursuit.... so I'll say what I always say. To understand and know me, you have to spend a day or two with me. There isn't any other way to really discribe myself... yet.
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Comments (45)
First, not exactly fair to not give humanity a knowledge of good and evil, then punish us when we do something wrong by taking the fruit.
Second, saying God doesn't send us to hell is a cop out. If I put you in a car and push it towards the cliff, saying I'll let you out if you agree to worship me, I'm still sending you towards that cliff. The default position is going to hell, and not through any fault of my own (I certainly didn't eat the forbidden fruit). It's like being born imprisoned because your mother robbed a bank while pregnant with you.
So yes, God, who is apparently all powerful and can do whatever he wants, is certainly sending us to hell.
Dear Vicky, the title of your blog caught my eye, as it is proclaims a concept I do not often hear. Your assertion that God does not "send" people into Hell is somewhat out of step with the Scriptures.
You are correct that we earned Hell with our sins, and in that sense we certainly do "send ourselves" there. But no one who has earned Hell would ever think to volunteer to jump in because we do not accurately judge ourselves to be Hell-worthy.
Jesus is often referred to as the one who, at the end of time, will judge everyone who has ever lived (Acts 10:42, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Peter 4:5). After the judgment comes the "second death" (i.e. Hell or the Lake of Fire). Revelation 20:13-15 states rather bluntly that anyone who is ajudicated to still hate God at the judgment time will be "thrown" into the Lake of Fire.
That's the long way of saying, yes, we earn Hell, but God still actively places unrepentant sinners there because they would not go on their own.
God as you understand him set up the system that ends up in us going to hell. If he's really omniscient, he already knew humans were going to "fall" and deserve eternal punishment. So he set up this whole game because his desire for being worshipped was more important to him than his game ending with billions of individual souls in torment for eternity. That god is all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing. He knew exactly what he was doing when he started doing it. His actions were the starting point of a concatenation of events that led to hell and condemnation and suffering. He is absolutely culpable.
Yes people choose Hell by not submitting to God, trusting in Christ, and repenting from sin. But, the bible is clear that God sends them there. God in His justice and wrath does send people to Hell.
For a good video on this subject by noted theologian J.I. Packer see: http://www.vimeo.com/17914382?ab ("J.I. Packer- O que e o inferno" - English, with Spanish subtitles)
"Why is it that a majority of the population seems to believe that God is "sending" us to hell?"
because, if He exists, He is omnipotent and absolutely nothing can happen without His approval, or at least consent. if that's not true, then why are you wasting time worshiping a non-all-powerful being?
"As we take a look into the story, you find that God has created man (and woman) in his own image and all that jazz, pretty much because he wants kids, folks to love on him, make him happy, you know, like any good father would want."
you say "good father, " but all i see is "selfish being who is desperate for attention." God sounds a little histrionic, no?
"Pretty simple, right?"
not really. see, if Adam and Eve were banned from eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, then we can assume they didn't have that knowledge already. so.... God didn't expect them to obey because they had any sense of right and wrong, but simply because He said so. go ahead, ask any parent how long the "Because I said so" argument actually worked for their children (assuming they weren't, you know, absolutely brain dead). in theory, Adam and Eve couldn't even comprehend that disobeying God was wrong.
even better, why create the tree? that's kind of like a parent putting a kid in the room with a puppy in a box, but telling the kid he/she will die a horrible death if they open the box. if it's that much of a concern, take the damn box out of the room. apparently, God would rather play games than care for His children.
"and he's forced to remove himself from the close personal relationship he had with them since he can't associate himself with sin."
then He's not a loving God. sorry, but if that exists as a universal rule, it exists because God made it so. i don't buy into the idea that God is incapable of being around sin. so apparently, He'd rather see His children suffer for eternity (due to His own negligence as a parent) than change a rule He created.
@GodlessLiberal@xanga -
I am thinking about your response. As a father, I remember many times telling my little children to do something for their good or not to do something, again for their good...something that in no way could I educate them well enough that they would fully be able to make informed decisions before choosing to obey (or not). For instance...stay on the sidewalk when I saw a truck coming. My kids just needed to obey, unquestioningly. That analogy is not even close to the implications of Adam and Eve's choice, I know.
I would have to agree that God set up the system under which we live and die. We live in His Universe. He isn't asking anyone's opinions about the rules. God created everything, including Heaven and Hell. Martin Luther said, "Even the Devil is God's devil." What we're leaving out is that God's foreknowledge combined with His Love drove Him to provide a way to escape Hell. He stepped up to pay the price of our fallen nature (loved your analogy of being born in prison because your mother robbed a bank while pregnant with you). Jesus willingly set His face toward the cross to pay the debt of sin we are all under in this prison of life. It is indeed a downhill ride to hell outside of faith in Christ. Jesus offered only one way, Himself, to escape hell.
Stuff to think about. I like the way you came succinctly to your points. I have wrestled with some of what you are talking about for years, and can only conclude that I have the option of one bus out of town, and Jesus is the driver. I can see evidence of His work in my life and mind, and I can see evidence of the devil's work as well. I know I have a fallen nature, and can totally relate to the apostle Paul in Romans chapter 7. The answer I am resting on is Jesus' power to save and to purify and to equip me to please God. I have tried other ways, and they are bankrupt from the start.
I am convinced that God wants us to love Him by our choice. I am convinced that He is a jealous God...THE jealous God...and the LOVING God...and the RIGHTEOUS God. I believe that what He does is right, just, true, merciful, and totally trustworthy, and that His will is what's best for me and for everyone else. When I can get myself to live in those beliefs, I have peace. When I can't, I don't.
John Lennon's "Imagine" is intriguing and tempting, but it's empty and meaningless in the context of what my conscience and experience know.
Things to think about.
Peace,
db
Mat 10:28 And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luk 12:5 But I will warn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, who after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
God does not need our defense.
@GodlessLiberal@xanga - i have to say i agree with you. a god who just created us to praise and obey him and gets fruistrated and cast us into the pits or hell.....wow....yeah i didn't eat the fruit either but i must be punished because of the dumb bitch that did? wow. tell me how thats fair dude seriously
@TheBillion@xanga - RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats what i have been saying. it pisses me off. if he was all knowing he knew there we be same sex love, pre-marital sex, murder, theft, covet, lies, so why the fuck is he blaming us for something HE knew was going to happen anyway?
exactly because we have our own free will. we make the choices we do in life not him!
@GodlessLiberal@xanga - we all have free will. god doesn't force us to make bad descisons yet he still forgives us. we make the choices. so in the end it's our own fault!
Too many "@'s" to respond to, so I'll just do it as a whole and you can figure out through deductive reasoning who I'm talking to. :P
Mmkay, so first I wanna comment on some common themes I'm noticing in these comments. I saw a lot of "God is mad at us" and "frustrated at us" and "blames us" phrases in there. God isn't mad at anyone. He hates no person in this earth. His love for us is so incomprehensibly great and vast that it's impossible to measure. God isn't "punishing" us because some dude from waaay back when's mistake. It's the sin nature that's tied to our soul through Adam's act that puts us on the "Bus" as someone said up there. We're all born into sin according to the bible. And anything with that Sin nature is going to join the Devil in eternal damnation.
Secondly, the Free Will bit. Yes, God is all powerful. Yes, He is all knowing. Yes, he is ever present. But he gave us the power to choose. Because he didn't want to force us to do his will. That's not true love. True Love is loving someone because you want to, not because you have to. Also, who ever said there was only one outcome to the Garden Incident? If God is God and he made the universe and knows everything, wouldn't be able to see multiple versions of the future? Wouldn't he be able to see a future where Eve isn't Tricked by Satan to eat the fruit (emphasis on the tricked so people know she knew about the tree). That's why he had a back up Plan, a.k.a. Jesus. Just in case.
I'd also like to point out that God is a Gentleman and while he can (and has) intervine in earthly matters, he isn't going to just do it. He gave man dominion in the Earth and said "Whatever you loose in the earth, I will loose in heaven, and whatever you loose in Heaven, I will loose in the earth." He's not some giant master Chess player moving us about with his fingers. Just as he used spoken words to create everything, we likewise must speak with the power of the Holy Spirit within us when we accept Jesus as our Savior and change things. Hence the saying, "He's working through us." We are his hands extented. And when we've done all we can do, he steps in and does the supernatural. You have more power than you think.
And lastly, The whole "God is all powerful, why can't he associate with Sin?" It's not that he can't be around sin. It's that he's so pure and holy and sin is complete polar opposite. It's offensive to him. It'd be like taking a dirty diaper and smearing it in the President's face. God is attracted to what is like him and pulls away from what isn't. He's ever present, but his blessings and spirit won't rest on those that are in sin. He'll be with them, waiting for them to accept him and even intervine from time to time to show he's still there, but he can't give all that he wants to them, because that's saved for those that have been adopted into the family God, joint heirs with Jesus Christ. A King won't bestow all his riches and glory on someone that curses his name. That's casting pearls before swine.
Oh, and just for fun: "you say "good father, " but all i see is "selfish being who is desperate for attention." So I guess anyone who's ever had/wants to have kids or be a parent is just a being who's desperate of attention then, eh? Probably not the best thing to say right before Mother's Day.
@vajbff@xanga -AGREED! :) it's like saying if you steal something you're going to prison because you stole it nobody else made you steal it so you have to suffer the consequences!
I always wonder why he didn't just kill Adam and Eve. That way, two people would have gone to hell.
But no, God is kind. He keeps them alive and lets them live on. Due to God 'loving' humanity, billions of people are headed to hell.
Doesn't make sense to me.
@GodlessLiberal@xanga - seconded. Everyone default going to heaven and then people saying "I want to go to hell", I'd call that free will.
Even if God did exist, he's a complete asshole. He's way worse than anyone he's ever sent to hell.
"So he creates them, puts them in this flippin' awesome garden with everything you could ever want or need, and tells Adam, "So, just take care of things around here, make it look nice, watch over the animals, and I'll stop by every so often to see how you're doing. Oh, and see that tree over there? The one right by the Tree of Life? It's the Tree of Knowledge. Don't eat the fruit on that one.""
See, that's one of the things that's always bugged the hell out of me (no pun intended). There was no reason for God to put stupid tree there. It's also quite a knock against Christianity that God didn't want humans to have knowledge....
@bouchardd - "For instance...stay on the sidewalk when I saw a truck coming. My kids just needed to obey, unquestioningly"
Uh, no. You simply explain to them that "Hey, there's a 5,000+ pound truck coming and if you go out in the road, it will run you over and you'll be splattered all over the street and never get to play with your toys again". Just because you're too arrogant to explain it to them and instead thing "I said it so you must cower before my might!"
@fromprivatetopublic@xanga - Bullshit. You want to say that God is in control of everything and nothing happens without him wanting it to - then you want to insist that anything bad that happens is because evil humans caused it. You can't have it both ways. Either humans are in control and capable of causing both good and bad things or God is in control and causing both good and bad things.
@vajbff@xanga - "I saw a lot of "God is mad at us" and "frustrated at us" and "blames us" phrases in there. God isn't mad at anyone."
God doesn't get mad at anyone? Really? Sounds like you need to go read the Bible again.
"This is what we will do to them: We will let them live, so that God’s wrath will not fall on us for breaking the oath we swore to them." Joshua 9:20.
"The LORD, the God of their ancestors, sent word to them through his messengers again and again, because he had pity on his people and on his dwelling place. But they mocked God’s messengers, despised his words and scoffed at his prophets until the wrath of the LORD was aroused against his people and there was no remedy. He brought up against them the king of the Babylonians, who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and did not spare young men or young women, the elderly or the infirm. God gave them all into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar." 2 Chronicles 35:15--17.
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness." Romans 1:18.
"Wrath" means extreme anger, btw.
I don't mean to sound rude, but please educate yourself on your own religion before saying things like "God doesn't get mad at anyone".
Sincerely, an atheist who has read the Bible many, many times.
I'm not even going to get involved in this tangle. God made us, made the choices, and laid them on the table. Choose carefully.
@BimmerPhile@xanga - you can have your own opinion that's fine with me! :)
@GodlessLiberal@xanga - God gave us the car and told us how to use it - it's people themselves who drive off a cliff
"So really, God isn't sending us to hell. We were already going there
regardless, thanks to Adam's little incident. And God didn't like that."
I think many non-christian would have a hard time to understand this..
1. Adam's action put us all in sin and default position to go to hell.. why? logically, that rule about sin being passed down surely is set up by God, because there's no higher power than God that God cannot escape..
2. God didn't like that.. Does it mean that God did not like the fact that us is in a default position to go to hell due to the rule of sin being passed down that God himself put in place?
3. God created two human beings that God know will disobey God's order about the forbidden fruit, which God know will lead to billions of human being going to hell, and all these is out of love? that is... interesting concept...
that's just my reaction to the post.. perhaps there's some explanation that i haven't come across.. thanks for sharing anyways =)
Handwaving the problem of hell away by using the concept of free will (which has minimal Biblical justification, by the way) seems to be slightly dishonest, given that true free will is impossible if you are claiming that God is good, all powerful (able to intervene if something goes wrong), knows everything (present, past, AND future; meaning he knows what you will choose with your free will), and created everything (meaning that even if he were to refuse to intervene, he set everything up to go according to his "plan"). In order for free will to be anything but a simple distraction, bringing in a compelling concept that doesn't actually apply given the sheer magnitude of God's supposed power, a revision needs to be made to the above. Ideally, putting some limits on his omniscience, since putting limits on how he can intervene, such that it doesn't interfere with the free will of people that his divine intervention affects, requires ignoring large swaths of the Bible where he does exactly that.
@bmojsilo@xanga - well people make cars. if god makes people make cars, then god makes people drive off cliffs. poor choice of analogy.