For most of my life, I attended a Lutheran church with a liturgical service. Everything is always very structured, and I kinda like it that way. At college, though, I started going to church with my roommate; she's CMA, and we usually go to Baptist churches.
I never realized how different the services were. Over the past few months, I've had to get used to no kneeling, no songs written before 1990 -- let alone anything like "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" or "This is the Feast" -- seeing adults baptized instead of infants and having communion passed out instead of filing to an altar.
Even though communion is done less often in these churches, that's the one thing that I think is hardest for me to get used to. I had to go through a long confirmation class period to get communion. I was taught that the presence of Christ is in the bread and the wine, and I was used to it being wine and not grape juice.
Why grape juice? Is alcohol really so evil that we can't even have it in small amounts for the remembrance of Christ? I can understand why, say, a recovering alcoholic wouldn't want to get near the stuff, but to me, it doesn't feel like the actual sacrament if it isn't wine. I know it is, of course; the meaning is more important than the materials, and I respect all ways of practicing Christianity, even if I can't relate to them.
Honestly, I like both services. Things are very enthused and vibrant in these more contemporary services, but I feel the beautiful ancientness of God more deeply when attending my own church.
What do you think? Do you prefer communion with wine or grape juice, and why? What kind of church do you attend?
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Comments (40)
A thimble sized shot of wine would probably raise your blood alcohol by about .001. Is that bad?
Seeing adults baptized instead of children is great. No songs written before 1990? Yeah, sadly many Christians ignore the nearly 2000 year history of the church on that.
I wish communion was done more often at my church, but it seems we go a few months or more without. I think it should be a weekly, or nearly weekly, occurrence for all of God's people.
Many Baptists, especially most Southern Baptists, are opposed to alcohol consumption. While the bible doesn't oppose it, they strongly do. That is part of the reason why they don't serve it in communion.
"but I feel the beautiful ancientness of God more deeply when attending my own church."That is understandable, just don't choose your church based on feelings. (Not that the OP did, she actually went the opposite direction at the moment.)
@socialdemocracyforall@xanga - To those who believe consumption of alcohol to be a sin, yes. To most Christians, no.
@MagisterTom@xanga - God made the vine, but the devil made the drunk. Typical saying for a few hundred years back, before angry wives started up all the temperance societies and the religious authorities took it overboard as they usually do with any moral panic.
Temperance is good. But that doesn't mean abstaining. Even the Bible has Paul telling Timothy to drink a little wine for an unknown stomach problem.
Why not do it the way the early church did it? WINE, all the way!
And it makes me very sad to hear about "no songs written before 1990." Ugh.
I'm Catholic, and we receive Communion once a week. It's nice. Communion makes the mass more personal and fulfilling, in my opinion. I remember having grape juice when I was a kid during my practice before my First Communion, but once we received the sacrament for the first time, we got wine and I've always had wine ever since. I think grape juice just... I don't know, takes part of it away for me. Communion wouldn't feel right to me with grape juice, but to each his own.
That's too bad about the music. /: The older music is my favorite.
I'm assuming Baptists have grape juice for communion because they don't believe in alcohol consumption. Doesn't make much sense to me since the Bible doesn't condemn it anywhere and if
Jesusused wine, it seems it should be good enough. The Methodist church uses grape juice for recovering alcoholics, which is good, but they don't condemn alcohol consumption in general (as long as it's in moderation)
We use water and pieces of bread as symbols of His blood and body. We partake every week. The idea is to always remember Him, so that we can have His Spirit to be with us always.
I just had the opposite experience, drinking real wine at a Presbyterian church. Needless to say, I loved it.
I think unless, like you said, if the person was a recovering alcoholic then wine makes more sense. At my First Communion we had grape juice of course but if I had continued being a Christian after my childhood years I still couldn't personally partake in the wine because my mother was an alcoholic and every time I've tried to even have a simple glass of wine I get panic attacks and I just can't do it. Pretty much the only example I can think of in which you would not drink the wine.
I grew up in a Catholic church. Now I attend a non-denomination church. I think I prefer the non-denomination church. The Catholic church is beautiful, that's the only plus to it. You technically aren't supposed to go to communion unless you go to confession and I really don't think that's right. My dad wouldn't let me receive communion unless I went to confession. Kind of sucked. The church I go to now doesn't do communion. I'm really ok with that. The wine/grape juice thing never bothered me
The wine/grape juice and bread are not Christ. They are partaken in remembrance of Christ. Remembering Christ is far more important than the symbols that merely represent Him.
I prefer wine. Even Jews use wine for the Passover.
We use grape juice at my church. I've never asked why, but perhaps it (partly) has something to do with legal issues since young teens partake as well.
I grew up in a variety churches and all of them where I was allowed to take communion used grape juice. Just this past summer I started attending an Episcopal church and had communion with wine for the first time. The burn of the alcohol surprised me, but I enjoyed the experience. I felt that the sacraments at St. Marks felt more reverent and following what the Bible intended communion to be. However I also enjoy the Grace Brethren practice of a love feast, foot washing, and the Eucharist (which I think includes wine or grape juice depending upon the choice of each individual church though I could be wrong). It is a different kind of reverent, and just as acceptable as going up to the alter to receive the wafer and wine.
@brittany_7x@xanga - Amen!
@beebizzle@xanga - You are only supposed to go to confession before receiving the Eucharist if you are guilty of serious sin (basically, you broke one of the Ten Commandments). If you ever have further questions on the matter, please feel free to message me!
I agree with the grape juice instead of wine, and I have a valid reason why.
A dear friend of mine battled with alcoholism for years, and he is finally free.
When he went to church it happened to be on a Sunday where they were doing communion (this church calls it Lord's Supper). He asked the elder if it was wine or grape juice, and he was told it was wine. because of his battle with alcohol, he could not partake. And I found this very sad. He was a new Christian.
He stopped going to church.
It says in the Bible that we are not supposed to cause others to fall into sin, and I believe that tempting a recovering alcoholic with wine could be setting them up to fail.
For me, I have been a Christian for 17 years, and I have never participated in this. Why? Because it has been dumbed down to nothing more then a ritual. (Im sorry, but I need to be honest. And I have been in too many churches where the real meaning is lost and its nothing more then something to fill a time slot in a service.... wow.. sounds mean.. and again, I am sorry but its just how I feel).
I go to two non-denominational churches. Both of them have optional communion all the time. It is grape juice. I'm kind of indifferent towards the grape juice vs. wine argument. It'd be nice to keep ancient tradition, but I think if it's going to cause previous alcoholics to stumble it's not worth it. And, God knows our heart and I doubt He's going to be offended by using a non-alcoholic substitute.Â
Jesus did things a certain way at the Last Supper. Jesus used wine; in rememberance we are to have wine at Communion. Wine is not an arbitrary choice, here... grape juice pushes God out in favor of a man-made way. Out of love of God, let there be wine at Communion.
@Azn_Shenobi - "
"The wine/grape juice and bread are not Christ. They are partaken in remembrance of Christ. Remembering Christ is far more important than the symbols that merely represent Him."
Catholics believe that the bread and wine become His Body and Blood during Mass, so to us, bread and wine are not symbols (symbols are empty; they point to something else). Remember, "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood..." I agree that this is a difficult thing to believe; I just submit to it, to Jesus' will here.
@LadyGwenivere@xanga - One of the beautiful gifts the Catholic Church has retained (as well as the Orthodox and a few others) is that while both the body and blood of Christ are offered, you receive Him in His entirety in either one. Those who struggle with alcoholism may still receive Him under what appears to be bread and yet receive just as much as those who receive Him under both appearances.
Please thank your dear friend for his courage in struggling against alcoholism; it is a terrible cross to bear.
@monobeam@xanga - What a nice comment to find just after an hour of Eucharistic Adoration!
"Well, toward morning the conversation turned on the Eucharist, which I, being the Catholic, was obviously supposed to defend. [Mary McCarthy] said when she was a child and received the Host, she thought of it as the Holy Ghost, He being the 'most portable' person of the Trinity; now she thought of it as a symbol and implied that it was a pretty good one. I then said, in a very shaky voice, 'Well, if it's a symbol, to hell with it.' That was all the defense I was capable of but I realize now that this is all I will ever be able to say about it, outside of a story, except that it is the center of existence for me; all the rest of life is expendable."
@socialdemocracyforall@xanga - I'm aware of that, although I had not heard that phrase. I'm all for drinking wine, and having wine for communion. I would however, have grape juice available along with the wine for those who have had alcohol problems in the past, or those who are offended by it. Romans 14, 1st Corinthians 10, and all.
@musterion99@xanga - And during that passover celebration they stop and contemplate all of the symbolism then determine that it has nothing to do with Jesus and carry on with their veiled eyes.
@LadyGwenivere@xanga - That is sad, as I said above to socialdemocracyforall, both should be available if wine is available. There is no reason to make someone stumble over this.
@caroliiineee@xanga - Agreed. And there is no reason to cause someone to stumble over a minor issue. Serve both and be merry!
@monobeam@xanga - "Jesus did things a certain way at the Last Supper. Jesus used wine; in rememberance we are to have wine at Communion. Wine is not an arbitrary choice, here... grape juice pushes God out in favor of a man-made way. Out of love of God, let there be wine at Communion."
Meanwhile your brother is pushed away because he had a past with alcoholism. Because someone's obsession with tradition over love for his brother one is turned off from church, potentially turned off from Christ, and possibly bound for hell. Romans 14 and 1st Corinthians 10.
@pensively@xanga - There is no legal issue, wine for communion is an exception. That and it is a shot worth of wine, it isn't enough to make any bit of difference or even to show up on a breathalyser test. Many churches use wine for different reasons. See my comment above for more on that.
@MagisterTom@xanga - The point is that Jewish tradition has always been to use wine for the Passover, which would leave to believe that Jesus used it at the last supper when speaking of communion.
@MagisterTom@xanga - Wine or grape juice, both seem fine to me, as long as the focus is in remembranc of Christ's sacrifice for us. And you bring up good points in your comment. By legal issue, I'm only refering to serving alcohol to teenagers. I'm not all that familiar with that law, but if restaurants and such are not permitted to give alcohol to teens, isn't it the same for churches?