Wednesday, 25 August 2010
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Christians and Qu'ran Burnings: America, the Islam-ophobic (Part Two)
In part one of this series, we discussed the proposed Muslim community center and mosque in Manhattan called the Park51 Project, referred to by protesters as the “Ground Zero Mosque.” We learned that, while the project is within the law and Constitution of the United States, there is some debate as to whether the organization is right in building its center so close to Ground Zero.As an example of Islam-ophobia in the United States, the Park51 Project is by far the most widely known case, but there are many other examples to be found across the country which point to a much larger American distaste of Islam.
Where I currently reside in Gainesville, Florida, many locals talk less about the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque” and more about the planned Qu'ran burning being held in town on September 11th of this year by the Dove World Outreach Center.
Dove World is a self-proclaimed New Testament church, focusing on the return to spiritual faith and Biblical principles. The church spreads its message through a variety of ways, not the least of which being controversial signs and protests. Locally, Dove World is known largely for its campaign against the election of a homosexual mayor, which included signs, flyers and videos that pushed for “No Homo Mayor.”
But Dove World's planned Qu'ran burning event, which they dub “International Burn a Koran Day,” has received national attention, from multiple major news stories to an interview with Senior Pastor Terry Jones on CNN. According to CNN's Belief Blog, local Gainesville religious leaders have spoken out and plan to hold events to counter the Qu'ran burning. Even the city of Gainesville has opposed the event, not out of religious reasons but because the event is unsafe; Dove World's request for a permit to host the event was denied, but the group insists it will continue with the event as planned.
While most of the response has been negative toward the group, there are still some who seek to support Dove World in their Qu'ran burning extravaganza
“We fully support Dove World Outreach Center and its efforts to put an end to the notion that Islam is a peaceful religion,” wrote Right Wing Extreme founder Shannon Carson in a statement. “Islam is a violent cult with the goal of world domination.” The report also says the “armed conservative Christian group” will be protecting the church during the event. Yikes.
All of this talk of violence and protests leads me to beg the question: how does any of this translate to scripture? Where in “the greatest of these is love” is there room for Qu'ran burnings? And what message does this event send those who are seeking Christ but instead finding hate? It seems counter-intuitive that a Christian organization protesting what they claim to be a hateful, violent faith are choosing to resort to hate and violence to spread their message.
It's clear that Islam-ophobia is not just prevalent in American society but also in Christian society. In part three of this series, we will discuss what Christians can do in light of the rising dislike of Islam in America.
Do you agree or disagree with the actions of Dove World Outreach Center? Do you think a Qu'ran burning will send the appropriate Christian message? What alternative actions could the church take?
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Comments (27)
It's silly and unnecessarily confrontational, like the building of the Mosque/community center itself, but they have a legal right to do it. And isn't that what America is all about? If you have the right to do it, it must be right? Christ would call on us to convert Muslims, but I am certain that is considered just as wrong as burning their Quran by those who find it easy to hate Christianity but turn a blind eye to Islam out of the need to be "tolerant".
I do not agree with the church's decision. It doesn't make sense. My guess is the vast majority of those supporting and condoning these actions have never read the Qur'an and have not taken then time out to understand Muslims. What they should do is have an interfaith meeting and find out who Muslims are. They are damaging their image. Muslims shouldn't judge all Christians by the actions of this church and this church should no judge the actions of all Muslims by the events of 9/11.
It's totally ridiculous and ignorant...and they call themselves an "outreach center"?
And in Manhattan a young man asked a cab driver if he is Muslim. The driver who has been in this country for 25 years, driven a cab for 15 years, and has a wife and children, answered yes. The kid proceeded to stab the driver in his arm and face. Over the weekend people demonstrating against the proposed community center confronted a black man wearing a cap as he tried to walk by or through the crowd. They began calling him names, saying he must've voted for Obama and general harassing him. As it turned out, he is not a Muslim. He's a carpenter working at ground zero. Mob mentality? This is exactly how people started acting in Nazi Germany.
But tonight I heard a heart-warming story, the story of Donna Marsh O'Connor who lost a daughter and an unborn granddaughter to the 9/11 attack. After 9/11 she decided she had to be a positive mother to her sons and demonstrate to them what it means to move forward. She saw all the hatred and decided to do something about it. She joined a group called "9/11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows". They showed up to speak out in favor of the building of the community center.
Mayor Bloomberg also took a stand in saying we cannot compromise an inch on the Constitutional rights granted to all Americans.
You know, in the movie "Zorba the Greek" Zorba and the scholarly young man named Basil witness the brutal death by stoning of a young woman. The community decided to kill her because she had committed some "sin" of the flesh. Later that evening Zorba asked Basil why anyone has to die and Basil, still shaken by what he'd seen answers, "I don't know." Zorba then raises his voice and says, "What's the use of all your damned books. If they don't tell you that, what the hell do they tell you?"
I have to ask, if Christianity doesn't teach these people how to act like decent human beings, what the hell does it teach them?
I do not agree with the burning. Even though I consider the Bible to be the holy word, I don't think that gives us a right to burn someone else book that they consider sacred. The only way that we will get to there hearts is by showing them love and teaching the TRUE Christian way. I don't agree with the building of the mosque but if we can burn their book, they can build their temple.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - Remember how in school you only learn(ed) if you wanted to? Same goes for Christians. Most of them only read what is convenient for them and their lifestyle.
There is some precedence in Christian scripture for a book burning (Acts 19.19), but it was a sign that people were giving up a previous way of life; and they were burning their own (formerly prized) possessions.
What Dove World is doing sounds like pure intimidation. If someone wants to burn their own stuff, that's fine with me, but this public spectacle under these circumstances should be avoided.
I completely disagree, and I don't think this will send the appropriate Christian message.
There is somewhat of an old testament precedent, as God commanded the Israelites to burn/destroy/slaughter everything and everyone in several of the pagan nation they conquered. When they did not obey, those leftover idols led to their downfall repeatedly. However, that was a direct command from God during a specific stage in history. Neither the lesson nor the situation applies here.
I disagree with wanton destruction in any form. Sad.
DWOC does a lot of things I disagree with. "No Homo Mayor" is more than off base. And here's the thing for me: I have zero problem with the mosque being built and I think Christians fighting against it is a silly thing. Surprisingly though I'm not against the burning of Qu'rans. Check it out... I don't want there to be any mosques. I don't there to be any Muslims. I want Muslims to be Christians and to gather in Churches (houses please) and to read the Bible. That's achieved through loving interaction and speaking bold truth though (predominantly).
But here is the stupid part of this event I completely disagree with: They're seeking attention for it. What sense does it make to sound a trumpet for such a thing? Why go into the town square and wale loudly? Why pray so loud? If we're not to indulge in holy activities such as prayer, offerings, and fasting in a way that draws attention to ourselves then why would we draw attention for less holy things like burning scriptures from wayward sects? Again, I'm okay with burning those books but I absolutely don't see reason for simultaneously saying "Look at us everyone!" It seems to me like it could be a plea for "persecution." I don't see Christ-like motivations behind all this, but then again I have a shallow or limited view of the actual story.
Christians would be wise to read the Qu'ran before burning any. Keep a few for debate and the sake of evangelism. If you're going to dowse altars to idols do it but don't burn a bridge.
Tertullian wrote in On Idolatry II, "When a Cristian passes through the temples, he will spit down upon the smoking altars and blow them out. As to rooting out the strange gods in every way, it has been commanded, 'You shall utterly destroy all places where the pagans sacrifice to their gods. You shall overturn their pillars and dash them in pieces. You shall cut down their groves. You shall burn their graven images. You shall destroy their names.'" [emphasis mine]
A good question to ask is, can Christian be loving while also rooting out evil in such ways? What does God (and his Word) say about interacting with false teachers, idolaters, pagan cultures, etc? Is burning the books of a false religion really unChristian? Is there a Christian way to do this? Have we become overly PC, hypersensitive, and/or cowardly or have we reached a higher level of understanding what it means to exist and function as Christians in a sinful world since Tertullian?
@saenpual@xanga - That's very true and you can usually tell how little people have learned by how arrogant, intolerant,and narrow minded they are,
@TheGreatBout@xanga -
"Surprisingly though I'm not against the burning of Qu'rans. Check it out... I don't want there to be any mosques. I don't there to be any Muslims. "So then I assume you don't mind people burning Bibles, people not wanting there to be any churches, and not wanting there to be any Christians according to the commandment, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I know you are someone who by principal is against war. War is brought about by hatred, ignorance, intolerance, and prolonged periods of misunderstanding. Even when the cause of war is greed the people made enemies are demonized in order to justify taking from them what is theirs. It's not really possible to be against war but not the causes that bring war about.
I am shocked(though not surprised) about the comments of most so called Christians. Sorry but you are not a Christian. Those who oppose DWOC and come against them show that they already bow down to Islam. They obviously don't care about millions of people are going to hell and the Koran shows the way to hell. They don't cry out for the many young women killed in honorkillings every year.They don;t stand up for all the Christians killed and persecuted in Islamic countries.
Christianity is about love, but love also means speaking the truth. And it is about obeying God and restoring what is righteous is Gods eyes. Homosexuality is a sin and God hates it. It willlead to death unless you repent and change. If we don't preach this, how can people know. The church has made it convenient for people and preaches what people want to hear. The church is in terrible state, sin is not preached as sin anymore and Jesus is not the only way to salvation.Otherwise you would do something against the rise of Islam.
Serious times call for serious action. Even a sign Jesus is the only way doesn't bring results. So say it the other way around, that Islam is of the devil and burn the book (which by the way doesn't hurt anybody)
Since we go out with this radical message, I have talked to a lot of people, a lot of them are Muslims and I preached the gospel, clear and direct. To How many Muslims did you preach the gospel?
This is a time for warning and coming together to restore Gods righteousness.
What are you doing to reach the world and wake people up?
There are a lot of things you can do but compromising is surely the way of the devil!
@TheSutraDude@xanga - Well, not for the reason of being aligned with the teaching you pointed out, no I don't at all mind people burning Bibles. It's no threat. I absolutely don't mind people not wanting Christianity around or her churches. In fact, I wish we saw more of that in this society because that's evidence that the Church is being faithful to Christ. He said the world would hate us like he was hated. We're often not hated enough. Ignatius said that "Christianity is not a matter or persuasive words but a matter of true greatness so long as it is hated by the world." The greatest struggle with the idea that it is permissible or beneficial to burn the Qur'an or other scriptures is indeed the teaching you pointed out of treating others the way we would like to be treated. And like someone said on my blog this morning, it's not like Paul was said to be doing this. Rather, he entered into intelligent dialogue. Though to be fair, not all early Christians could enter that type of dialogue like Paul did.
I'm against war, not by principal but by Christ. My foundation for morality is not some shared "principal" among mankind but the revelation of God through Jesus Christ. If God commanded us to go to war tomorrow I'd obey. However, in the revelation of Christ I think it is made quite clear that this command won't come like it use to in the Old Testament and that we are to live as a people who make peace. Which begs the question, "Can Christians be peacemakers while also burning the scriptures of other religions?"
@TheGreatBout@xanga - I would not burn the books of another religion or culture because I know I would be pissing people off and to what end? I would also not follow any commands coming from God to wage war. There were some at the highest levels of our government who believed they were following God's will by waging war in Iraq. I'm sure they still do.
As for the world hating you being verification of your religious faith, I'll try to explain something and feel free to consider it. First I think it's safe to assume the world hates pedophiles, rapists, and murderers. This is obviously no validation of their religious or philosophical beliefs. There is a story about a man who is a slave of demons. He does their work and they make sure he is comfortable, well fed and basically content and they don't bother him because they've no worries. One day however he wakes up, realizes he is a slave and begins his escape. At that point the demons jump up and give chase doing everything they can to stop him.
As I believe you are aware, the inner battle is the one to be waged. You're a nice guy. If you're hoping for the world to hate you you're going to be in for an endless wait. I have almost countless friends from every background I can think of and if their are backgrounds missing it's only because I haven't met them yet. I take that as a verification that I'm doing something right, not wrong. If God is about anything, it's love.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - I agree that God is about love. But the world doesn't know that love. It typically hates that love because it doesn't understand it and that love doesn't give the world what it often wants. Maybe I'll be in for a long wait, maybe not. We'll see. Plenty of people don't like me because of my dedication to forgiveness and enemy love. I'm constantly insulted for it. While insults are a very very light form of persecution (in fact I'm almost not comfortable calling them persecution) it's proof that Jesus is right when he says the world hates Him and those who follow him.
In this scenerio that's being discussed I don't see pissing people off being an aim. I see the end as Tertullian did I suppose? That is, to blot out idolatry. Now, I'm not sure how much I agree with that type of endeavor (to be honest, my initial remarks were hasty and really for the sake of discussion) but I'm saying it doesn't seem to me the point or even a point of burning books/idols in the way I'm discussing it would be to piss people off. It may happen, yeah. It also may not happen. Like I said, if you burned down my church or threw my Bibles in a fire I wouldn't be mad. I'd accept it with joy and continue being the Church with my siblings and go off to find a new Bible.
@letsdoit - Did you create an account today just for this comment?
Every religion has its Tertullian factions but my Muslim friends all believe in God so I don't know where idolatry comes into it. In fact I would be more apt to believe that if the church in question believes burning the Qu'ran will have any positive effect in the world, they are worshiping idols. Have fun with letsdoit.
@letsdoit - I don't think it's quite accurate to say that the people who comment wants everyone to bow to Islam, or want people to go to hell. I think some just came to this realization that, hey, maybe life isn't about competing for who's religion is the best, like it's some football game. I think that burning up supposedly holy books may not the best way to reach out to the Muslim community. There are more efficient ways to communicate Christ's message other than Koran burning.
All I can think of really is that history has proven the old adage: violence begats more violence. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. You can start off with something as small yet vital as an eye or tooth. In this case, a book, small yet vital to a religious belief. Eventually, problems will get big enough to the point that you just wanna take their body/soul and rip it apart.
@Megan - Is it necessary to the process of converting someone to be disrespectful or hateful to them? I would think that wouldn't be a terribly effective method. I have yet to hear one person come up with a real reason for blocking the community center. Do you have one?
@ OP: This series is excellent. Off to part three!
The idea of this whole event frankly terrifies me, and I shudder to think of what the results might be. If there is not a stop put to the people who intend to do this anyway, I could very well see it escallating into a highly dangerous situation.
I think it's time for religion to change. Christians should simply branch off from the extremists & form their own religion because Christianity is turning into a negative tyranny that many people are hesitating in continuing being a part of. Ironically, this will give Christians a widespread bad name just like 911 gave the Muslims a bad name. It's not fair. The actions of one group should not make us hate them all.
I work with a big family. They're all Muslim. They're caring, kind people who are all about their family & their religion. They will drop everything to pray 5 times a day (usually the women do this, not so much the men) & they don't care what anyone else thinks. They're hard working & have great ideas for this world. Now, i'm not saying this reflects every Muslim.. but i'm sure there are plenty of people out there like them who will be cut deeply by this burning.
I'm offended; I'm not a Christian but I AM an American and I don't persecute members of any religion, unless they're crazy extremists just asking for it. And even they don't represent the majority of their religion. please stop equating Christianity with being American!
It's not a mosque, it's more like a YMCA for Islamic people, but they probably will have a place to pray. Two, it's not even ON ground zero, but TWO BLOCKS away. Are people going to bitch and moan about a Starbucks and a bar being on "hallowed ground"? No? Then shut the hell up.
What the hell is the point of that? Why can't we just respect each other's religions and let to each their own? Christianity is not supposed to be violent, from what I know, and supposedly proclaims love for our fellow human beings... so just how peaceful is burning the books of another religion? >.o