Monday, 05 July 2010
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10 Simple Rules for Dating my Daughter
So, I saw Dan's post, "some people are evil", a very thoughtful post I might add. The thing that stood out to me most was what he had to say about how someone could tell what kind of employee someone would be based on how they treat a waitress. This reminded me of some of the things I taught my cousin.So, here you have it, 10 simple rules to date my daughter, or cousin, or whatever.
1. When you are on a date pay attention to how he treats the waitress.
- If he respects her, that's good. He is more likely to respect you.
- If he flirts with her, that is definitely bad. He doesn't respect you, and may even cheat.
- If he disrespects her, run. He will never respect you if he can't respect the waitress.
- And he better tip her well, if he doesn't run. He doesn't respect her, is stingy or cheap, or isn't grateful for what he is given. Any of the three is bad. (Most guys will hide the tip, I know I do. Try to see it anyway, if he doesn't tip at least 20% you should probably run. More on tipping here.)
2. If he expects you to "go dutch" then this is a definite warning sign. If he asked you out he should be able to pay for the date. There can be exceptions to this however, especially after a few dates. Or if he is a broke college student. He should pay for the date, but don't break the guy either! He shouldn't be sponging money off of her, being broke is one thing, sponging off her is not right.
3. You should feel safe and protected around him, but not suffocated. He isn't your babysitter, but he should always have your best interest in mind. He should never put you in a situation that you feel unsafe in. He should also be more interested in protecting your purity than you are. This means that he shouldn't be willing to go somewhere that he would be alone with you.
4. He needs to respect your parents and anyone else in authority over you. For the sake of my cousin this includes respecting me. This would also include her church's pastor, if she attends, or other spiritual leaders or mentors. (All Christians should be under authority.) This is even more important if she lives with her parents. For the younger readers out there he needs to have her back by curfew and obey any other rules set down by her parents or others in authority in her life.
I know I'm more traditional than many, perhaps more than most, but for the ladies that live with their parents or are in college I think the man should ask her parent's permission to date her as well. (Clearly this isn't always a possibility)
5. This relates to rule #4. He needs to be under authority in his own life and have accountability. From what I've read 60% of males (and 30% of females) use porn on a regular basis. This is totally unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. If he doesn't have any accountability in his life he is likely given over to this or other things that will only serve to hurt him, her, or both of them. He should also have a mentor that his leading and teaching him.
6. He needs to respect his parents. His father figure should ideally be a man he looks up to and listens to. This goes along with rule #5 as well, his father should be an authority figure in his life, but based out of respect for him not fear of discipline or punishment. Also, how he treats his mother is crucial! How his father treats his mother is important as well.
If he doesn't treat his mother well, there is no reason to believe he will treat you any better than he does her. Does he help her out where he can? Does he ever speak ill of her? Would you want him to treat you the way he treats her?
7. He should have similar values and morals to what she has. If you have different beliefs you will constantly clash. As Paul the apostle said, we need to be equally yoked. For Christians this includes not only being Christian, but if possible being of non-clashing beliefs. A Catholic and a Southern Baptist are probably going to have issues. Or a Christian and an atheist will probably have serious issues. This would become even more important if the couple were to get married and have children. What would the children be taught?
8. He needs to respect her individuality. He shouldn't be trying to change her, and she shouldn't be trying to change him. That isn't saying both shouldn't be trying to better themselves, as we all should, but you shouldn't approach someone with the hope of changing them into what you want them to be. He should encourage her to be herself, not someone else.
9. He needs to have a plan for his future. If he is content to work at McDonald's for the rest of his life he probably isn't the one for my daughter. I can understand that some are not financially stable, and I'm not suggesting that everyone should wait until they are financially stable. But, he should have goals in mind, and a plan for the future. The future doesn't mean a career plan necessarily, but he needs a plan for the future.
He should also have marriage in mind. Not that he should know that he wants to marry her before the first date. But, dating isn't just for playing around, his intent should be finding a suitable mate. If he isn't serious enough for this, he isn't serious enough to be dating my daughter.
10. He should own a sword and carry it with him at all times. Okay, maybe that is a metaphor for a bible? Either that or I couldn't come up with number 10. But, having a sword and being prepared to slay anything that would harm her seems like a good thing.
Do you have different standards for dating? Why? How did you come up with your standards?
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- From: MagisterTom@xanga
- Name: Tom
- Location: Carbondale, Illinois, United States
- About Me: I am a Christian first and foremost. This means that I try to put God first in everything I do. Notice I said try, I'm far from perfect. For more about me, read my blog posts, and look at my interests.
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Comments (36)
What is this doing on Revelife? It belongs on Datingish. Go back to Datingish! :-p
@Megan - ♥
This makes a lot of assumptions about the families and environments of the daughter/cousin/whatever and her date, and basically treats the daughter like a bit of property. It's a bit unrealistic for today's standards, IMO.
@Megan - actually, this was posted on Datingish, but a lot of people told him to go to Revelife.
I agree with @Megan! But I am glad to see it featured nonetheless!
Although I wish I were likely to come across a person willing to do any of these things. Ha. Kind of goes with what @poosywhistle@xanga has said about unrealistic for our society. Guys these days don't work like this, unfortunately.
I wrote a follow up post to this with a few examples that go along well with this, and another post asking for questions if anyone is interested.
@Sweet_Heroine@xanga - She knows, that is why she said it. :)
@poosywhistle@xanga - I don't think it makes her "property" but instead protects her from harm.
@ultravioletskies08@xanga - "Guys these days don't work like this,
unfortunately." - Some still do, and if they are interested in the girl they could learn to do things differently. And, from my understanding a lot of people descendant from Asian cultures still do this while in America.
I carry a bible and a .45.
@MagisterTom@xanga - It's semantics and POV, in my opinion. You don't really give her a choice or her own say in these different things - it's a rulebook for the guy that could just as easily be a guide to taking care of the car while he's using it, pushing the two people into a situation where the strong guy is taking care of the girl, who doesn't really have any opinions or feelings - she's just helpless and there to be dated.
rick warren did an awesome series on dating. i suggest anyone interested in listening to take the time to do it. it gives a biblical and theological foundation for dating.
while these are good ideas, there is no real biblical citations to support them, i would have liked to see some!
"From what I've read 60% of males (and 30% of females) use porn on a
regular basis. This is totally unacceptable and needs to be dealt with."
To this day I don't understand what the problem with porn is. I find porn hilarious and unless it becomes an addiction why does it matter?
"1. When you are on a date pay attention to how he treats the waitress."
that's stupid. the waitress is not me, and i am not the waitress. furthermore, if our waitress is an epic failure at her job, i'll be the one being disrespectful.
"2. If he expects you to "go dutch" then this is a definite warning sign.
If he asked you out he should be able to pay for the date."
also dumb. i don't expect a guy to pay for me, on the first date or on any other date, unless he genuinely wants to. i don't need a sugar daddy.
"From what I've read 60% of males (and 30% of females) use porn on a
regular basis. This is totally unacceptable and needs to be dealt with."
agreed. those statistics should be much higher :) the desire to look at sexual imagery is 100% natural and healthy and is NOT cheating. if you feel that it is, you're insecure and need to stop worrying that he/she likes you less than a picture or film. in-the-flesh sex beats porn any day of the week.
"If he doesn't treat his mother well, there is no reason to believe he
will treat you any better than he does her."
i don't treat my mother all that well, either.
BUT, people deserve to be treated well because they are human beings. my mother is no more deserving of respect than some random stranger just because she is blood relations or has a vagina.
""Do you have different standards for dating?"
yup.
1. treat my son/daughter the way you expect to be treated by them.
that's it.
"Why? How did you
come up with your standards?"
because as much as i will probably love my future children, they are going to be their own individual people allowed to live their own lives. they may be nothing like me, and it's arrogant of me to assume they'd want the same things as me out of a relationship.
and i have to second what someone else said. seeing as i don't think women are inferior in ANY way to men, a lot of your rules make no sense to me because they start sounding like "How to Treat Your Vintage Corvette"
another point.
nowhere in ANY of your rules do you have anything about whether your daughter even LIKES this guy. it doesn't seem like her opinion matters to you at all, and that you're only really interested in a loosely arranged marriage.
I completely agree with @too_pretty_to_die
Your daughter as soon as she's eighteen doesn't need your permission to do anything. That's the way it is now, so whether you think he's good for her or not, she can choose him.
Now hopefully if he's awful, she won't. And hopefully you raised her to pickt the right one, but it's not 1900 anymore. She picks who she picks.
And the waitress thing took it a little far. Basically, he needs to agree with her morals, and treat other people respectfully, and he needs to treat her the way he would wish to be treated. End of story. It doesn't need to be nickeled and dimed. Relationships aren't that complicated.
Bottom line: if he loves Jesus. He'll treat her right.
Relax. Breathe in. Breathe out.
@TheGiantSlayer@xanga - Marry me?
Good article, if a little one sided (I understand the bias though) Maybe a follow up article on what girls should be expected of in a relationship? Relationships will fail if they are only one sided.
I really hope you are joking about the sword and the .45 though guys, I'd like to think Christians wouldn't carry weapons around.
I disagree with people speaking so strongly against these 'guidelines'. Men and Women are equal, that doesn't mean chivalry should die. Men still need to know how to treat a woman right, there's nothing wrong or patronizing about having good manners.
@ultravioletskies08@xanga - Lets take it slow, how about lunch?
I hope your daugther picks the right guy, I read your article and compared it to my guy! No wonder why I love him. The only one I do not agree with is 7. I am dating a southern Chritsian and I am a Northern Catholic. He is very respectful, just what I am looking for!
1. We are seniors in college. He has $100,000 in loans and has to work a lot. When we do get to go out somewhere, he is respectful and tips well b/c he works in a resrturaunt and saympathsizes. I love going to dinner with him!
2. I have mainly night classes (three next semester) and I work during the day. He has class during the day and works on the weekends. Yet, we find at least one date night a week (usually Thursday or Friday)....I would def. take it as a warning if he did not want to go to the bar, club, dinner, or movie seperately, when we can never find time together already!
3. I remember one incident where a guy was threatening me, and my bf was real defensive, ready to fight for me. Yet, we have our own friends. Long distance for four months allowed us to communicate really well over the phone. I think was great because we can go a few days without seeing much of each other, so I do not feel smothered, but yet we spend enough time together to have a meaningful relationship. I felt loved but not sufforcated!
4. He is a ministry leader, He mentors Chrsitain students. If he is a leader, I guess he respects those before him!
5. He told me he had a fight with his brother. His brother was viewing porn. Most likely, I am good enough?
6..His grandfather is his father figure. One of the few times I saw him cry is when his grandfather died. Now, his mom needs some money, and he makes sure that she gets her medical bills paid.. Hhe gives her money from cell/car insuracne) so she can have the money she needs. Plus, he really respects my parents.He thanked them a million times for a steak dinner( a norm ariound here!), and he helped me clean up. Plus, he had a hard time calling my dad anyrhing except sir...
6, We both value the same things. He was in special education in school and he credits his special educaion education teachers to his attending college. This is my major. We both value education, obviously. We both want a family. We believe in God, and that Jesus saved us. We believe in helping others is the meaning of our lives. We both like going out to eat, ice skating, seeing movies, and football. I can list million values we have in common as well as a bunch of differences. I think we a have a good balance, enough to keep it interesting, but enough that we can agree.
8. He respectdully tells me what he does not like about me. My cousin is dating a girl who is forcing him to dress a certain way. This would drive me crazy! I am glad to know what I can improve, but I am a work in progress and I am glad he keeps that in mind!
9, My boy is shoveling out 25000 a year so he can have a future. He has a plan to make more money later. He wants a wife, a family and a good job. He went into this relattionship thinking that he wanted a good wife...and he wondered if I wiould be a good wife/mother! Even if we dont work out, he wants it to!
10. I have been having a hard time lately. As he said, "I will be willing to stand with you for as long as you are willling to fight." I love this becaus I have many flaws, he recognizes them, and loves me anyway.
I have been through my share of bad guys, but I am glad I have a good one no! I hop your ddaughter finds a good one;. I realized my guy is awesome! I hope your daugher recoginizes the good ones too!
I think these are some good, basic guidelines and I think the strong reactions against them are a sad commentary on the state of gender relations in this country. There are plenty of men like this in this day and age. I know because I am raising one, so are many of my friends. You will find them at homeschool conferences, church, good, solid Christian universities and the like.
I raised three kids to be great adults, mainly in the 90's and 00's. Some of you rlist looks like it belongs in 1964. Your metaphors about treating the waitress basically boil down to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Not go somewhere alone together? Right. I raised my children to know what to do when they are alone with the opposite sex. I taught and prepared them for dating, including which lines to cross and which ones not to. I taught them to recognize vulnerable situations, and how to avoid them, or correct the situation if they found themselves in one. I also taught them that they could call me 24/7, say "come get me", no questions asked. I watched my sister in law raise her two sons, both college educated, both "career men", and watched their lives fall apart when the economy did. Downsizing, relocating, now working at McD's to pay the rent. One works three part time jobs becuase he can't find a full time one. You should not judge them by the position they are in, but rather, how they handle the cards that have been dealt them.
Your examples are so idealistic that if they waited for this type of "Mr. Right" to come along it's very likely they'd never marry. I liked some of the commenters points, you never even mention if she likes the guy, it appears YOU are treating her more like a commodity than a daughter. First and foremost, I wanted my daughter to be happy and really love who she chose. After a few close calls (could he be "the one") she is now with her fiance', who IS the one. He's not a rocket scientist, but loves her dearly, is compassionate, polite, respectful, accomodating, optimistic, hard working, and wants to plan their future together, not have her fit some mold he had already cooked up. THAT is leadership, what you describe is closer to dominance.
And I carry a Bible and a .38 special, concealed, and Tae Kwon Do. I use each of these tools when appropriate. The Bible is a great teaching tool for others, and the utmost authority when dealing with life situations. My .38 is a great protector of me and my family, from idiots who are in no mind to listen to the Word over a cup of coffee. And the Tae Kwon Do has taught me patience, tenacity, balance, confidence. The Bible is the most powerful when it is used and shown to others. My .38 is the most powerful when concealed and not used, but when the need arises, just the sight is enough for most to reconsider their actions. Same for the Tae Kwon Do. It is most powerful when not used. All one has to do is take the basic stance, with confidence, and that conveys a message to would-be abusers that you are pushing your luck.
Chivalry is not dead, but basic manners are nearly extinct in todays society, especially in larger cities. A lot of what you are promoting is material that hasn't been taught by parents in the last four decades.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - You beat me to it! ;)
Thank you (:
I'm sorry about being rude before, it was a bit out of line.
@Kidd -
"I disagree with people speaking so strongly
against these 'guidelines'. Men and Women are equal, that doesn't mean
chivalry should die. Men still need to know how to treat a woman right,
there's nothing wrong or patronizing about having good manners.'
i disagree. it definitely should. it shouldn't be about men or women. human beings need to know how to treat other human beings right, regardless of gender. i place far more importance in respect than in manners, because manners are simply gestures meant to give an appearance of respect. so yes... chivalry should definitely die.
i don't want to be treated special because i happen to have a vagina, and i'd never date a guy who believes that i am some delicate little thing needing special care.
Common theme I see here--RESPECT. I agree, respect of those around him and his own family is very indicative of how he will ultimately treat you.
I think it is sad that some women have to rely on "feminism" as a crutch to feel better about themselves. I am comfortable enough as a girl that I don't need to act like a boy.
@Megan - True.
I also don't get the argument that he never mentions if she likes the guy. Um, isn't that part understood? If she agreed to a date with said boy then clearly she has some amount of interest.
Furthermore these are rules for dating HIS daughter, not a piece of legislation intended to rule all of dating. If he thinks a certain type of Christian man is most appropriate for his daughter based on how she was raised then what is the problem in giving her guidelines? Do we not do this in all areas throughout our childrens lives? I want to raise up my kids in a certain way so I guide them in that way and make sure their environment is fertile for that development. What's the difference here? It's not like he's arranging a marriage and I'm sure if she chooses to stray from these guidelines she won't get stoned. Some of the responders on this thread really need to take a breath of perspective.