Most Christians don't have experience in casting out demons. I'm willing to bet that most Christians in the west have a hard time believing demon possession is a serious problem in our present world or that they have a part to play in casting out rebellious spirits. I'll be the first to say that I have always been skeptical of the power of demons and how much I am obligated to fight against them. Spiritual warfare talk often seems so... well, fictional. It seems like barbaric and pre-enlightenment superstition mumbo jumbo. I'm convinced this is an unhealthy view.
In his book
Satan and the Problem of Evil, Gregory A. Boyd brings forth statements from several post-apostolic Christians (church "fathers" from the first 3 centuries after Christ). Boyd aims to explain the early Christian belief that all angels (both obedient and fallen) are free will agents (like humans). As a result of this many angels have rebeled (following "Satan") and are now roaming Earth (again following "Satan.") Not only are Satan and these fallen angels inhabiting Earth but the early Christians give us reason to believe they are causing a lot of trouble that often gets blamed on God. To put blame on Boyd and avoid too much research I'll throw some snippets from the book your way.
Origen insists, "famine, blasting of the vine and fruit trees, pestilence among men and beasts: all these are the proper occupations of demons." So too demons are "the cause of plagues... barrenness... tempests... [and] similar calamities." Similarly, Tertullian argues that "diseases and other grievous calamities" are the result of demons whose "great business is the ruin of mankind." In the footnotes Boyd writes,
"Interestingly enough, Origen relates the power of demons in the natural world to the 'nourishment' they gain from 'the savor of burnt sacrifices, blood, and incense' offered to them in the context of pagan religions."In a nutshell Boyd is claiming the early Christians believed that demons have free will, operate in the world humans live in, and cause trouble not only with humans but also the elements of the planet such as water, dirt, and so on. Mudslides, earthquakes, and more are attributed to the devious acts of rebellious angels in the eyes of Tertullian, Origen, Tatian, Justin (the Martyr), Athenagoras, and others. In other words, there is an evil will behind all evil that exists and that evil will is born of the agent it comes through and not the original Creator.
If this is all true, then it certainly makes the practice and need for casting out demons much greater and it also makes much more sense of the account that the Christians of the first few centuries would extinguish small sacrificial altars in the market places and worship centers of the pagans when they would come through. For me, it makes such action an act of war, service to the world and a practical way to live out an understanding of Ephesians 6:12 and 2Corinthians 4:4 as opposed to a public nuisance.
What do you think? Does this sound biblically accurate to you? What is your understanding of the cause for natural disasters? Do you believe casting out demons should be more common?
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Comments (52)
I think it is an excuse people use. I don't believe in possessions. People make their own choices. And to blame natural disasters on demons is ridiculous. They are called "natural" for a reason. Not to mention science has showed us why and how these natural disasters occur...and they all happened naturally.
I think natural disasters are natural disasters. I have seen no evidence of demons or Satan in my life to date. The Bible says that we have 3 enemies--world, flesh and devil, so I am open to it being real. I am just saying that I have seen no evidence of demons in my life. I don't deny the possibility.
I'm not aware of any scripture that says Satan was the cause of a natural disaster, but there are scriptures that say God has used them at particular times as judgment. In the other times, I think it's just a natural result of a world in which sin dwells.
I agree with you; both on your point and your initial opinion of the practices.
My thinking so far (as this is something I have begun to look into as of recent) is that, yes, we do need to begin this practice again, however, some reform needs to appear as to the carrying out of the practice. Those groups that do practice it currently often do so in a manner that is not described to us either Biblically nor in the writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers.
So before I would begin this practice I would desire to receive some sound Spiritual instruction from someone who is following sound principles.
Excellent post.
@ANVRSADDAY@xanga - good observation; although the scripture does relate him to a "prowling" enemy. So I would not expect him to show himself until he is prepared to strike.
Unfortunately for me, I do believe I have seen evidence of his presence in my life (sin). I still seek the Lord's protection now because I know he is out there ready to strike when I am weakest.
I had never thought of the demonic in the sense of natural disasters, but rather as possessing people.
Corrie Ten Boom gave a very interesting speech about demon possession. I'd highly recommend it for anyone interested. (Unfortunately, the audio quality is poor and she has an accent, I found that after a few minutes it becomes less of a struggle to understand her.)
@SexyGamerGirl@xanga - Are you a Christian?
@MagisterTom@xanga - Yes, but I'm very liberal in my thinking. I think people let religion (any religion) rule their lives and how they think. I use my religion as a basis.
@SexyGamerGirl@xanga - When Jesus casts out demons in the Gospels, and the Apostles in Acts, are these not demon possessions?
@MagisterTom@xanga - I also don't believe everything I read in the Bible lol. Take everything with a grain of salt.
Whether or not there are demons is open to debate but developing a mindset that we need to cast them out is a slippery slope. We create enemies and then demonize them, not exactly what you're talking about but related. The idea of casting out demons led to the burning of "witches" in this nation's early history. Mean-spirited gossip about a female whom a click of people didn't like could lead her to the burning stake. It led to torture and murder during the the Spanish Inquisition, a time in which many lived in fear of perhaps being the next accused of being possessed simply because of rumor and innuendo. The true battle against demons exists inside oneself and that's the only place the battle can be waged and won. The good news is you don't have to torture yourself or burn yourself at the stake. As examples both Shakyamuni and Jesus faced Mara/Satan by themselves, were tempted by demons but stood their ground. It was like getting their final black belt degrees if you'll pardon the metaphor.
@SexyGamerGirl@xanga - How can you be a Christian and not believe the bible? Is there some standard you use to determine which parts are true and which are not?
a few thoughts I have on demons, satan, and possession.
1. Christians cannot be possessed
2. Satan and fallen angels (aka demons), are created beings, they unlike God are NOT all powerful, all knowing, or everywhere. they may be spirit beings, but they can only be in one place at time.
3. Satan, does not have creative power, he cannot create new demons, so he would therefore be stuck with only the angels that rebelled with him.
4. Since Satan and demons are limited in number, and as we have 7 billion people on earth, it stands to reason that not everything that happens is the fault of Satan and demons, and so some of it is the fault of the unsaved and saved people on earth.
5. While possession is possible, in the unsaved, we should never jump to the conclusion of possession, without ruling out the possibility that the person is not possessed and just simply a sinner.
@ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga - If this were facebook I would click the Like button.
@musterion99@xanga - It is interesting to note that Jesus "rebuked" the wind and waves, the same term that is consistently used for his casting out of demons.
@MagisterTom@xanga - It's such a pain having to use words to tell someone you appreciate their contributions lol.
@TheGreatBout@xanga - It is! If you've noticed though, on facebook you can now like your own content. I will now proceed to like everything that I write, because I'm just that good, or egotistical, one of the two. :)
@MagisterTom@xanga - If you thought that comment was good, then you may like a series of three posts I did on spiritual warfare. http://proudtobeachristianfruitcake.xanga.com/574229406/is-it-finished/
once you read the first one, I believe you would click "newer" to read the next two.
@SirNickDon@xanga - That's a far stretch if you're going to use that to imply that Satan causes natural disasters. If he did, I'm sure God would have made it clear. Just because the word rebuke is used is no reason to conclude Satan did it. Jesus could have just said said - "I rebuke you Satan" and then the wind would have stopped if that was the case.
I believe in demon possession but I also believe in Holy Spirit possession and yes I believe in exorcism and see its importance. Well, even if Satan causes natural disasters, isn't he a creation of God? Is there another Creator than God? Is Satan created by someone else?
@ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga - A couple of questions.
1. Christians cannot be possessed
How is it then that Christian parents have brought their own children to go through exorcisms?
4. Since Satan and demons are limited in number, and as we have 7 billion people on earth, it stands to reason that not everything that happens is the fault of Satan and demons, and so some of it is the fault of the unsaved and saved people on earth.
Demons hide the truth from people. They delude people, keeping them veiled in darkness. They trick people into thinking answers can be found outside of ourselves. Looking around at the state of affairs in the world I'd say we're quite outnumbered. One has to first know the enemy.
5. While possession is possible, in the unsaved, we should never jump to the conclusion of possession, without ruling out the possibility that the person is not possessed and just simply a sinner.
Who is going to make that judgment call? You? Me? Politicians? Is there anyone we should trust to make that decision about someone else?
@TheSutraDude@xanga - "How is it then that Christian parents have brought their own children to go through exorcisms?"
Just because the parents are Christian, does not mean the child is a Christian. Not to mention, that just because the parents take the child to an exorcist, does not mean the child was possessed.
"Who is going to make that judgment call? You? Me? Politicians? Is there anyone we should trust to make that decision about someone else? "
One might hope, you would consult someone with a religious background. Ultimately, unless the person's head is spinning and the person is vomiting split pea soup, I would hope that all other options were ruled out, before you told the person that Satan or a demon was in them.
@ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga -
Well in most cases Christians have their children baptized and exorcism is a Christian practice so I don't imagine a Jew or a Muslim bringing their children to an exorcist.
How would someone without a religious background be capable of even deciding someone was possibly possessed unless as you say, the person's head is spinning and the person is vomiting split pea soup? Also, having a religious background is not an automatic for having true understanding.
What it comes down to is that we all have demons inside and that is where the battle needs to be waged. Jesus said as much when he dared people to cast the first stone. "Demons" are clever. They hide within our own hearts and minds, keeping us ignorant and blinded from the truth.
Another question arises. If it was true that Christians cannot be possessed then one has to assume you're proposing some sort of holy war against all others in the world based on your presumption that those unlike you can be "possessed". I know a lot of Christians who aren't going to jump on that bandwagon.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - Out of curiosity, since you apparently believe in Mara, do you also believe in the literal existence of narakas?
@TheSutraDude@xanga - "Well in most cases Christians have their children baptized and exorcism is a Christian practice so I don't imagine a Jew or a Muslim bringing their children to an exorcist."
Christianity, is a personal relationship with Christ. The child in question, in order to be a Christian, and therefore be protected from demon possession, would have to make his or her own choice to follow Christ, admit to being a sinner, ask for forgiveness and so on. Just because the Child is born to Christian parents, and raised going to church, does not make the child a Christian.
"Also, having a religious background is not an automatic for having true understanding."
True, but in your originial post, you mentioned me, you, and a politician, I was just saying that a religious person would stand a better chance of helping, than me, you, and a politician.
"What it comes down to is that we all have demons inside and that is where the battle needs to be waged. Jesus said as much when he dared people to cast the first stone. "Demons" are clever. They hide within our own hearts and minds, keeping us ignorant and blinded from the truth."
I, as a Christian, like all other Christians, have God living in us. If, I have a demon, as you suggest living in me, than that means God is not strong enough to kick out said demon. So, if God is not strong enough to evict said demon, than why worship God? If God can't even save me from one little demon, He is not God. God being all powerful.
"Another question arises. If it was true that Christians cannot be possessed then one has to assume you're proposing some sort of holy war against all others in the world based on your presumption that those unlike you can be "possessed"
wow, no offense, but that is a leap.
Yes, I believe that non christians can be possessed, no, I do not want to start a holy war, based on this knowledge. For me the war was already won, when Jesus defeated Satan by dying on the cross for our sins. I have no reason to fight, Satan and his demons have already been defeated, all I have to do is live in victory, while telling others that the war is over, and they too can live in victory.