I pledge allegiance -- to whom?
In the early days of Christianity when the Roman empire still ruled the known world the Caesar would require his people to say "Caesar is lord" when his soldiers commanded it. They would have to say it and then drop a coin in the bucket to show their allegiance to Caesar, the "god king".
By saying Caesar is lord they were declaring their allegiance to Caesar and only Caesar. This caused problems for the early Christians. They believed, and rightfully so, that Jesus is Lord, and therefore Caesar isn't. And even though Paul in Romans chapter 13 ordered that Christians obey those God puts into authority he clearly did not mean to turn against God in the process.
The consequence for not submitting one's self to Caesar as lord was death. Many Christians rather than conceding allegiance to Caesar would instead be killed.
Today in public schools, or at least when I was in school, students are required to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Is saying the pledge any different than saying Caesar is lord?Yes and no. Yes in that we do live in a freer society than Rome and the Pax Romana that they enforced. We aren't forced to declare "Obama is lord". And no, in that I don't think a Christian's allegiance can be divided. Jesus said "If you are not with me you are against me," and "A house divided against itself can not stand". While the second one is in response to the Pharisees saying Jesus is casting out Satan by the power of the Satan the fact of the matter still stands that man can not serve two masters, especially two masters that oppose one another at times.
Can a Christian in good conscience recite the Pledge of Allegiance?I don't believe so. As stated above I think that a man can only swear allegiance to one thing or person. Because eventually the two masters will collide and the man then has to choose who his real master is whether it be God or country.
Do you think Christians should say the Pledge of Allegiance?
True
Comments (74)
Glad to see you chose to run this. I hope we get some good discussion.
Really? People actually believe this?
Honestly though, I don't see the issue. I'm Catholic, and fervently patriotic. I have no problem swearing allegiance to my country, especially with the line UNDER GOD in there.
@viewfromnihil@xanga - Well, clearly I do. Do you not?
@MagisterTom@xanga - It DOES say UNDER GOD, you know. But eh, more power to you, I suppose.
My dad always tells me that when he was in grade school there was no "one nation under God" in the pledge.
I had Jehovah's Witnesses in my classroom that have refused to say the pledge on the basis that it is idolatry and I can see their point.
When I was in college, I took an english class, and part of it was in class, and part of it was online. We had to give these speeches in class, that were to persuade our classmates on any issue of our choice. One student gave a speech on the pledge of allegiance. You should have seen the outcry and uproar that I caused, when I said that as a christian, I did not say the pledge, as I owed my allegiance only to God. with all of the negative comments that came my way on the website, you would have thought I said we should sacrifice bunnies or something. Eventually, when the comments crossed the line, the teacher had to shut down the entire conversation. I still believe that, to this day. I do not mind serving in the military, I would not mind being a cop, but I am a christian, and my allegiance is to God.
@viewfromnihil@xanga - Under which God? If it was under Jesus, wouldn't it have to obey the bible? I don't see evidence that America submits herself to any god.
@godfatherofgreenbay@xanga - While I strongly disagree with the Jehovah's Witnesses on most things I do agree with them on this issue. It is idolatry.
I'm Christian and I don't see the problem with saying the pledge. I know them by heart =) meaning I know the Texas's pledge too since I am Texan..=/ but if that's what you say..and think..you can go with it.
@MagisterTom@xanga - Considering that whoever wrote the pledge WAS in fact more than likely a Christian, I'd have to assume the biblical God. Of course, you COULD in fact say that whoever says the pledge and then leads an un-Godly lifestyle is in fact an ungrateful traitor, since they're pledging to serve America, under God, et cetera et cetera, while being a heretical blasphemer. But you know, maybe I just like reading between the lines, thinking abstractly about this sort of thing.
But, eh, more power to you I suppose.
I see it as a matter of conscience. People who don't have a problem with it don't see themselves committing themselves to country above all else. People who do have a problem with it think it's a conflict of interest.
I tend to lean on the objection side, but I don't make a big deal of it. Whether I do or don't depends on the setting and whether or not I feel like making a stink about it.
@viewfromnihil@xanga -
The pledge was written by a Socialist Baptist minister.
He was kicked out of the church for his political views,
and eventually stopped going to church at all because he had a probably racism that was going on.
The phrase 'under god,' was not in his original version,
but was later added by Congress in the 50's.
Relatives say he would probably have been against the addition.
I find a personal problem making a pledge to a nation that stands for almost everything God is against. We murder babies by the millions and protects it as a "right" and "freedom of choice." America promotes/sanctions hedonistic immorality at every level (we give good competition to the ancient Greeks in that field) and puts down those who stand for God's Truth(dare any politician to say that homosexuality is a sin and not get pelted in Washington). America glorifies what God has condemned- as if WE (America) know better than Him. I think the "Under God" phrase in the pledge is completely and entirely hypocritical- maybe at one time it was true but certainly no longer.
I respect what America stood for ( the Republic founded by our forefathers) but I think that what it now stands for contradicts all that I stand for as a Bible believing Reformed Christian.
Personally I don't say the Pledge of Allegiance and I haven't said it since 9th grade. I quit saying it because I didn't agree with the US government's choice to go into Iraq, not because of religious beliefs. But 9th grade was nearly a decade ago and I still choose to not say the pledge even though now it's because of religious beliefs that I can pledge allegiance to either God or country - not both.
According to dictionary.com allegiance means:
1. the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign.
2. loyalty or devotion to some person, group, cause, or the like
I would have no problem saying the pledge. Our nation is not the just the land that we walk on or leaders that are running the country. It is the ideas that it was founded on. The "unalienable right endowed by our creator"... "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
Having said that, if a Christian feels strongly about this then they had better obey the Spirit's leading. Each one must answer to the LORD for himself.
I think Christians should be more concerned with the lies they pray and sing every Sunday morning.
I think it can be considered both civil and religious idolatry, but I don't make a big deal about it, and will even say the pledge on occasion. If you get really picky, once you've pledged allegiance to the flag you've got nothing left for the country for which it stands.
I suspect few people give much thought to the meaning of the word 'allegiance' and would happily place family, God, and several other things above their loyalty to their own country.
I think this is a good question well worth discussing.
If you cannot say the pledge in good conscience, there are a few other things you should also not do:
Don't vote.
Don't accept any help from the government in any form.
Don't use electricity, because public utilities are regulated by the government.
Don't ever criticize public officials and their actions.
In other words, become Amish.
@JellyBeeen@xanga - Francis Bellamy would have considered it blasphemous to add "under God" to the pledge.
@socialdemocracyforall@xanga - I'm not opposed to having a government. Just opposed to swearing my allegiance to it. I also don't vote for similar reasons. I don't believe Christians should try to enforce their belief through politics. Instead we should seek to influence people by spreading the Gospel.
Paul used his benefits as Roman citizen to spread the Gospel. So, I don't see that we should be opposed to having government or to taking advantages of the benefits it offers us, but we shouldn't swear allegiance to it when our allegiance belongs to Jesus and His Kingdom.
I learned the pledge in my private Catholic grade school. What does that tell you?
being christian is way too complicated.
personally i say under Spaghetti Monster rather than under god
Are you serious? Are you going to get married?
interesting read.
I'm thankful this is not something we have in Canada.
Being loyal or patriotic to one's country is fine (the Old Testament certainly verifies this). My problem is not one of patriotism, it is one of obedience to God.
Jesus and James both tell us it is a sin to make a pledge. Christians are not above the commands of Scripture.
The theological explanation is here: http://thefaithfulword.org/oaths.html
A couple of tidbits:
The phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance by Congress and President Eisenhower in 1954 at the urging of the Knights of Columbus. Although I've no proof, where I grew up the local Knights of Columbus were believed by most to have quite the mafia membership and influence, but again...no proof and who knows what the group was like in 1954.
The words "In God We Trust" were not printed on U.S. paper currency until 1957. Those same words were first added to coins in 1861 during the Civil War.
The word "God" does not appear anywhere in the U.S. Constitution nor did it ever. Apparently this was very deliberate as the founders had recognized the corruption and suppression brought about by church and state being in each others' pockets and policies back in Europe.
Some people wrongly believe the word "lord" found in "Seventeenth Day of September in the year of our lord, one thousand seven hundred eight seven" in the signatory section of the Constitution demonstrates proof that the U.S. is a Christian nation but actually that was the proper, standardized date stamp of the day. Year of our lord had about as much religious significance as does the word xerox when you ask someone to make a xerox for you....and your office uses Canon copiers. Or it's like a formal business letter you begin with, "Dear Sir". It doesn't mean you're married to the guy you're writing to.
Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.
Now pray to your Father in Heaven for forgiveness for your sins, and say the Pledge of Allegiance 10 times.
This country has done more to promote the tolerance of differing religions than any other county in the history of the world. You need to be thankful for that, and spend this weekend praying for, and thanking the military men and women who died preserving that right for you. You need to be Patriotic, and stand behind your country, even if you disagree with some of it's policies or present Administration.
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. There is a lot of truth in that.
The founders of this country were God fearing men, some ministers, farmers, businessmen, etc. They purposely didn't include references to God because they were escaping the religious tyranny imposed by England, forcing you to participate and believe a certain way. That was the basis for the concept of Freedom. Go read the Preamble to the Constitution and ponder it for a while. So many people try to twist what the founders did to fit their agendas. It isn't that complicated. They were not futuristic people with some "vision" that allowed them to plan an experimental society that would last hundreds of years into the future. Many would like to think that, but in fact they were everyday people; businessmen, lawyers, teachers, etc. Thank God they took the time to think through what they were doing, debate it, plan, it, and ponder it before enacting it. And even then, they quickly realized they forgot parts, or things were brought up that weren't thought to be mentioned in the Constitution itself. Hence the first 10 Amendments, which we call our Bill of Rights.
By the way Sutradude, the Knights of Columbus was also responsible for the 10 Commandments being placed on the grounds of nearly every county courthhouse in the nation too. The ACLU has been steadily chipping away at that over the years, and many have fought (successfully) to prevent their removal.