Sunday, 25 April 2010
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Who Speaks for God?
In light of this recent news article regarding "prophet" Tony Alamo, I hesitate to use the word "prophet" for fear of the new connotations attached to it. Please understand that the following post's reference to "prophet" is meant strictly in the Biblical sense of those who speak for God, and not in the modern sense wherein people prey upon others in the name of God for the sake of sex and money.In the ages past, certain people would suddenly pop up and throw salt into society's wounds. Never content to be a part of the status quo, they generally lived on the fringes where the status quo meant nothing. They weren't the life of the party: They were generally spat upon, kicked about, abused, and only sometimes followed. These folks would later write books with incredible statements such as "this is what God says...." as though they were His very mouthpiece. That's quite a tall order, to tell everyone you've accepted the position of "God's voice".
Lately, I have been thinking. It started with a Facebook posting by a "liberal" Christian person I know. Only met the guy once, but I've read one of his books a couple of times (about once every two years, the book is a sobering reminder of what living life in a fantasy can lead to). The post was regarding the passing of the National Health Care plan through Congress, and it's addendum abortion matter. Christians from both ends of the political spectrum posted their views and the topic turned pretty hot. Conservatives and liberals love a good debate.
After everyone else had commented I posted this thought. It was my only response, but it threw a wet blanket upon what few comments followed afterwards.
It never seems to amaze me that in conversations like this (and I have read through each comment) it always resorts to "I think..", "I feel...", "I believe...", as if we are the end-all to the argument.
What amazes me most is that it's not what we think that matters, but what God thinks that matters, and in the end everyone will be judged by that standard.
I won't speak my mind on abortion, but I do raise this point: that what we feel on any matter is biased by our own thought, opinions, feelings. We need to break from that mold and see things from God's point of view, cause really nothing else matters.In response, the author of that Facebook posting said:
I think (heh heh heh) the reason so many people use "I think/feel/believe" is because we are - quite rightly - nervous about invoking God's opinion as OUR opinion (or, if you will, our opinion as God's opinion). I realize you'd like it if we could draw some hard lines and go "there it is!" But unfortunately, the Bible does not directly address abortion. There are principles we can (I think!) draw from Scripture to come up with a very thoughtful anti-abortion theology. But I don't see how trumpeting the news that our position is identical with God's position will really serve us...or serve God.
The author's comment gave me pause to think. Who speaks for God? Which of us will lay our opinions, thoughts, feelings, and concerns on the altar and take upon ourselves the mantle of prophet (not really being "prophet", I mean this in the sense of "mouth-piece"). Which of us will surrender to being disliked, discouraged, disowned, or disemboweled? Which of us will accept that Truth, real honest Truth, will never be popular so long as it is against the sinful nature of man. John the Baptist surrendered his head to the idea, literally.
We live in an age which pushes the notion of "liberal equality", everyone has a right to their opinion. We've made this such a mantra in our schools that it's given rise to an entire generation bent upon political correctness. If you speak openly about "Truth", you're labeled a "hater" - someone who preaches a gospel of hate. I, for one, would rather be found faithful to God and preach openly against the sins of man. (For example: abortion is the same as murder; homosexuality is a sin of choice and not merely a genetic disposition; politics and politicians represent the fallenness of man and, as such, will never save the world, etc.)
In the computer age, we've adopted the idea that we must be politically correct - that is to say inoffensive in our daily communication - if we are to reach the lost. We've watered down God's message until it no longer really is the message of God.
So again I ask, who speaks for God? Because it's an important question. In ages past there's always been someone who braved the sad state of society in order to preach the truth. So where are the Martin Luther's and the Martin Luther King, Jr's of today? I'm not talking about preaching against social injustice, something which seems to be on the lips of most pastor's now-a-days. I'm talking about preaching against sin and encouraging holiness. I'm talking about Scripture and how it is the word of God and, thereby, is Truth, not mere opinion.
I'm talking "without holiness, none shall see God" (Hebrews 12:14) and how we've failed to land that message, not only upon society (those within our own sphere of influence) but also upon ourselves. I'm talking about how little we seem to care for or respect God and His Word because we've given ourselves over to thinking they are insufficient to meet the arguments of the masses. (2nd Timothy 3:15-17). I'm talking to myself as much as any one in particular, for I live in a society given over to idol worship - and what am I saying about the true God? I pray often, "Lord, let me live to preach your word!"
Who speaks for God? (Lord, allow me, if you would indeed use this vessel.)
Words for us all to chew on today.
What do you think? Is preaching God's Word "taking over" as God's voice or simply being obedient stewards of the Gospel? When does being bold believers become a twisted religious game? Should Christians speak out more openly, and if so, how?
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- From: JulieMillerFan@xanga
- Name: Wayne
- About Me: I am not an easy person to pigeonhole down to a few adjectives and descriptional phrases. I am an adventurer, willing to surrender all I know in order to go where I've never been... as long as God has clearly told me to. I am a wanderer, realizing that nothing on this world is permanent or worth attaching my heart to. I look for something greater. I am a philosopher, delving deeply into the workings of my heart and reporting clearly the good and bad I find there. I am a worshipper, knowing the truth which HAS set me free, and bowing before He who died to show me that Truth.... Himself in all His Glory. I am a lover, first to my God, then to my wife, and then to all others. I am a child.... amazed in wonder at how beautiful things can be, and trusting in my Father to protect me by His strength. and all of this only scratches the surface.
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Comments (25)
We "take over" as God's voice when we start changing the meaning of scripture to suit our own desires, rather than conform our desires to God's.
Many people disguise hate in the form of claiming they are only speaking "truth". Everyone thinks what they say is the "truth", and corresponds to Scripture. Everyone cannot be right.
Well why does christian continue to cast a banner of ill will if your not a christian
We know that the scriptures speak for God, since He gave them through His chosen oracles. We know that the Holy Spirit speaks for God, even today, as we live worthy of His inspiration and have a determination to follow it. However, the scriptures and the Holy Spirit only speak to me for me, for my family, and for the direct stewardships He has given me. They will not speak to me for you or anyone outside of my stewardship.
The only one who is the mouthpiece of the Lord today for the whole world is His called and chosen prophet. The Holy Spirit has given me several specific confirmations that the Lord will speak through this man for His church and for the world. That man is Thomas S. Monson, and he is a prophet, seer, and revelator. Any person who will study his words and ask God if they are true, with a conviction to follow the Lord’s answer, will receive a witness that his words are true. It requires real faith and a willingness to lay aside the traditions and philosophies of men.
@lomal@xanga - Galatians 1:8 -- if any man --- yea, even if an angel from Heaven --- should bring to you any other gospel other than that which you have already received --- let him be eternally accursed.
Careful of chasing prophets, friend --- Jesus said that many would come and lead many astray. Ours is not to seek prophets, but to seek "The Lord" while he may yet still be found. Anything less is damning.
Seek the Lord with all your heart, and you shall find him.
@sarahzthoughts@xanga - Dead on. Your comment is something we all need to reflect on and has been the subject of many of my posts of late, esp. in light of the whole Jennifer Knapp matter. Do we Accept God's word as it stands, or do we seek to change it, make it something more acceptable to what we want? Too often lately, that's being done.
@DonellieWhyte@xanga - Please elaborate more on your comment, there is no sense to it as it stands.
There is a sociological theory regarding priests vs prophets. Prophets start the religions, but the need for order, law, and conformity cause the priests to win out. The prophets of the OT and Jesus' teachings on the Sermon on the Mount have a social justice tinge to them. However, in the 2000 years plus since Christ's first coming, the priests have been winning out and most of what the church teaches is law and morality.
I think it was Max Weber who came up with this theory. So that is your answer from a sociological perspective.....
I tend to believe in the concept of Continuing Revelation, meaning God is continually revealed through us. There have been many schisms because of this concept, but it is an aspect that has affected every church. Take the concept of the Rapture for instance... Darby came up with that in the late 1800s... before then, nobody even thought about the possibility of disappearing from the earth. Unprogrammed Worship in Quaker services also deal with the concept of Continuing Revelation, but when people speak when feel led, nobody considers themselves a prophet either... rather all messages are discerned by the listener for any True Meaning.
I think God is within us. I think we all can speak with Christ's authority, however, we have to acknowledge our humanity too and nobody has all the answers.
There is a Buddhist proverb.... if you see the Buddha walking along your path, approaching you... kill the Buddha. Nobody has all the answers for your life, not even the Buddha. I know it is Buddhism, not Christianity, but I think it applies here.
@sarahzthoughts@xanga - Exactly!
As someone who has been spoken over as a prophet I can say, I've lead a life similar in many ways to Jeremiah and many other prophets. Have you ever noticed the words of the Prophet are usually negatively reflecting on people's actions and then saying, "but God says he'll give you a break if you repent!" ? It seems that we forget that, as you said, a person who God puts in a position of noticing problems and hearing the distinct voice of God, backed by scriptures, are always put down, but ultimately God will act on his words, which is HOW a prophet is proven genuine. Many prophets will be proven only when the Lord returns and many find they are not found acceptable at the White Throne Judgement due to sins and issues that Christ brings up at the Judgement Seat of Christ. I've struggled with feeling like an outcast, but truthfully would rather speak God's heart than mine any time.
@lomal@xanga - let me rephrase this --- as a FORMER Mormon, someone who learned THE truth and left that hell-bound cult.... Thomas Monson IS NOT God's Prophet, he works for and speaks as SATAN'S mouthpiece.
That verse I quoted you before --- Galatians 1:8-9 --- has as much bearing upon the entire Mormon cult as any other verse in God's ONLY revealed Word. Even if AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN should bring another gospel..... and where did the (supposed) Mormon scriptures come from? Yea, false prophets shall arise and attempt to deceive even the elect if that were possible.
Friend, you'd best take a good long hard look at WHO you listen to, and where you find your Truth, cause God --- THE ONE AND ONLY GOD, not the myriad of little supposed "g"ods you're imagined religion teaches, ---- will one day judge all men for how they responded to His Word, His Spirit, and His Son. I'm telling you this up front so that you too may be saved.
For salvation is found NOWHERE ELSE but in the name of Jesus, THE Way, THE Truth & THE Life, through whom is the ONLY path to God. (Acts 4:12, John 14:6)
@therantingprophet - your words ring truest of all. As I said --- who is willing to lay down their own thoughts, their own opinions, their own biased feelings ---- and speak the cold hard truth. It's not an easy path to take, just look at my own Posts for all of last week and you'll see what I mean. Call something sin --- and you're libel to be attacked instead of listened to.
Good thoughts, glad you posted them up.
God speaks for himself, he just sometimes uses others to do it.
Aside from that, the problem with some things is that the Bible really doesn't directly deal with a lot of things our society deals with today. When it comes to that, you aren't simply preaching the Word, but now you're putting your own spin and opinion on it as well. You have to be sure that when you're doing this it really is because you're sure this is how it was meant, and not that this is how you would LIKE it to mean. Its tricky. Because, in cases like that, its easy to put your own prejudice onto the Bible and that would be a terrible thing to do. So, its definitely not something that you do on a whim. That doesn't mean that just because the message isn't what society considers PC right now that its wrong, of course. Not at all. But, if one's goal is to preach the Word, one should be sure that what they're preaching IS God's Word and not God's Word as they wish or would simply like it to be. Y'know? God never said that obeying Him and His teachings was going to be easy or always fun. :p
@JulieMillerFan@xanga - I *think* what DonellieWhyte was trying to ask is why try to force people who are not Christian to act like Christians. Like why force an atheist to believe abortion is wrong or the same as murder if they aren't Christian and have a different system of how they decide things like that? I think that's what she meant, but I could be wrong. That's the only thing I can glean from it. o.O; But, I had to read it a couple times. :p
@GaiaReigns@xanga - I know where you're coming from, but the simple end of it is this: 2 Timothy 2:15 ..... Study to show yourself approved, a workman who need not be ashamed by how he handles the Word of God.
God will indeed judge Christians, that much is plain (Judgment BEGINS at the house of God...) so we must be very careful in how we are interpreting, handling, and presenting God's message to the world. That is actually the very heart of my "Life Verse" (the one scripture verse that sums up my passion and heart) 1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and your doctrine CAREFULLY --- persevere in both and you will save yourself and everyone who listens.
Good thoughts, thanks for commenting.
@JulieMillerFan@xanga - Third time.
Before I ever heard of Mormons, Heavenly Father taught me that I could talk to Him and that He heard me and loved me. Before I ever heard of the Book of Mormon, I read the Bible cover to cover, and not only received the witness of the Holy Spirit countless times as I read, but I learned to recognize the voice of Jesus speaking to me in those words. When I first read the Book of Mormon, Jesus spoke to me also through its words and the Holy Spirit bore powerful witness of its truth before I ever asked. I am just finishing another study of the New Testament. I love the humble words of Paul and the powerful doctrine of Peter. I love the words of Christ found in both books. He has continued to speak to me through both books for over 40 years.
I don’t know what your experience was with the church and I won’t judge what happened to you. Perhaps you just weren’t ready to receive the Lord’s witness. On the other hand, you feel very free to stand in the place of God and judge and condemn me and millions of others. You speak of Satan, but your words carry a spirit of his loathing and darkness.
My witness is not from an angel, but from the mouth of Jesus Christ. He has testified to me that the Book of Mormon is His word, that Joseph Smith was His prophet, and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is His church on the earth today. I am not perfect, but Jesus is, and I will trust Him, not man, to lead me back to His presence. He is my Savior and Redeemer, my King, my God, and my Friend.
To caution you, as you did me: Mos. 2:36,37 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved— I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.
It's a complex topic but some of the loudest Bible thumping mouthpieces who believe they have a bead on things are quite often racists, or haters of anyone who disagrees with their theories. Look at many of the white supremacist groups who claim God to be on their side while they dawn Nazi paraphernalia. Compare the people who believe Christianity is about love and peace with the people who believe it's a Biblical right to bring firearms into a place of worship. Look at people like David Koresh who claimed he was a prophet while at the same time was engaged in pedophilia. Look at the Catholic Church that once persecuted Galileo but in the 1980s came out with an official statement stating the Earth is indeed round and not the center of the Universe. Within the last several months the Vatican came out with a statement that said Catholics should be more open minded regarding other religions and more open minded to the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Amazing.
The truth is, religion should not be a passive *i'll believe what a religious authority tells me to believe* practice. "Seek and ye shall find" and "Man, know thyself" and "the Kingdom of Heaven is within" are edicts I believe a person should take to heart.
We are in the Last of the Last Days. It is evident to anyone who reads the bible. Those things that are happening now around the world are supposed to happen and keep excellerating until God's wrath finally comes down upon this world. It is becoming increasingly difficult to not get entangled in the world's ways as time progresses. But we are supposed to not be a part of it. Yet we are in it.
A Prophet, if called by God to speak what God wills, will do so regardless of mankind's opinions (like or dislike), if he is convicted to do so. I have found that God's Word is ALWAYS confirmed in my life. If a Prophet speaks and it is false, then we should know and move away from him. There are a lot of lost people out there who will have no excuse for their decisions when they stand before God someday.
The watering down of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the churches today is an example of the need for each one of us to stay close to God and know His voice. Not a counterfit.
funny. my first instinct was to say "the pope, right?" but then i remembered he was a part of that sex scandal. maybe the answer to this question is more important than the modern Church gives it credit for.
i am no scholar like some of these guys, but aren't prophets born --not elected? and werent there like hundreds of years between the appearance of prophets even in the old testament? (granted that there might have been more than one prophet at a time once or twice. idk)
who's to say anybody speaks for God at all? maybe God is just keeping his mouth shut for the time being. i think he went a few long years without talking before Jesus was born, too. preparation for something? end times? people have been saying that for years, and the more they say it, the more wrong they are. the Bible says pretty clearly that NOBODY KNOWS when the rapture will happen. (oh snap)
maybe those things which people are saying "i believe" and "i think" etc. for are all things which, while they may or may not fit into God's plan occasionally, are not from God. God gave us his word to speak for him, and who are we to put words in God's mouth?...ever
AAAH I WROTE ALOT!!!! i promised myself i wouldn't do that. i feel like a troll when i write comments like this. i don't want to get rid of any of it....
@TheSutraDude@xanga - lolol wow "racists"????
@the_world_to_you@xanga - Never watch the news? Never heard of the still in existence group, KKK? Never heard of white supremacist groups who believe God is on their side? Granted these people are nut cases on the fringe but many will swear up and down that they are "good Christians" and they make sure they attend church every Sunday.
Who speaks for God?
-I am.Have you've read Ann Rice's perspective on the life of Christ? It goes beyond the WWJD type mentality because it offers some historical what ifs in a historic context.
Prophets start out as humans. They try hard to get rid of a lot of baggage that life puts upon them and get to the basics. We should not sin, in other words we should follow the way that God meant us to be.
Thou shall not bear false witness. In the deep heart of men, some knowingly bear false witness.
Thou shall not kill and it is contrary to the first commandment of God to be fruitful and multiply.
Honor thy parents and your days shall be long another great commandment.
@TheSutraDude - yeah, i can definitely see where you are coming from, especially if you live near or have met some people in a group like that. it could be naive of me, but i cant help thinking groups like that are so small nowadays that they aren't even an issue.
@the_world_to_you@xanga - I can also understand your perspective. I also believe the organized and more outspoken groups like that are small but still quite numerous in pockets of the country. I've lived in NYC for the last several years. People tend to get along and at least be tolerant of one another in NYC but you still find a lot of prejudices under the surface, be they racial, economic, or religious. I recently paid a visit to the suburban neighborhood in which I grew up. I saw the fathers of a couple of kids I grew up with and in both cases stopped to talk to them. Nice people, good role models, well spoken, good Catholics, yet I guess I shouldn't have been surprised as each told me what's changed in the neighborhood one of them said a black couple moved into a house but the husband seems to have a job because he leaves every morning and returns home every evening and apart from that you never see them. "They don't bother anybody so I guess it's not that bad", as he put it. So much for the welcome wagon. It sure brought back memories of growing in a nice "bedroom community". I thought things would have changed.
@TheSutraDude - wow geeze. you know, i never thought of instances like that as prejudice, but you are completely right. i know a few people who are just like that, and i am probably guilty of thinking that way, myself.
thanks for opening my eyes to this subject, i am going to look into it some more for sure.
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