Wednesday, 10 March 2010
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Why Jesus?
The question was phrased in the following way: "Why Jesus? Why not any other god - Allah? Buddha? Vishnu? Flying Spaghetti Monster? A generic god?"I was asked this question recently and I was taken aback. I probably should not have been, but I was. I was not sure really how to answer it and I'm not sure I really can now either, although I've thought a lot about it and formulated an answer for now, although I'd like to refine it both personally and historically - although my historical knowledge is pretty limited.
I have asked several of my friends how they might respond and gotten a few interesting answers. However, I wanted to turn it over to a larger group of people and possibly not just folks who were raised in the faith (the majority of my friends were).
Or, if you're reading this and are of a different faith, why do you believe what you believe?
So, folks, "why Jesus?"
How would you answer the question of "Why Jesus?" Have you ever questioned your faith?
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- From: ashleyannaka@xanga
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Comments (37)
As an atheist, I will offer that, in the debate, it's important for you ask yourself this question. This is why we ask you this question! :)
We do it because (to us anyway), there is not a lot of argument that one religion can offer that another cannot. They all have ancient scripture, folklore, an aspect of saving, threats and rewards after death dependent on how you act, child indoctrination, unconvincingly vague prophecies, et cetera.
You definitely have your own right to choose Jesus as a savior on your own terms, but when proselytizing, debating or converting, you need a compelling, external reason why to choose Jesus over the homologous component in other religions.
It's actually good that you were taken back by it and pondered why. Most religious people I debate with just get upset upon hearing this question and don't think about it at all.
Cheers,
Chase
He's the only one that died for our sins, is the Son of God, and rose from the grave.
Unlike those others you mention, Jesus is an historical personage whose origins can be traced back - genealogically and prophetically - to the time of creation. His is a continuation of God's revelation to the Jews and, before that, to Abraham and earlier. His coming, His suffering, His resurrection, His Kingdom were all prophesied centuries in advance. He made claims about Himself that none of those others made - to being God's Son, I AM, a ransom for sin. He predicted His own death and resurrection, and the continued preaching of Jesus as Messiah even after His "death" demonstrates that something inexplicable happened (His predictions came true). Unlike other religious "founders," Jesus' grave is empty. With all due respect, Vishnu and the Spaghetti Monster got nothin on Jesus. That's why.
Salvation history is ancient and specific, took place over centuries and was beheld by thousands upon thousands of witnesses.
All other religions are the figment of the imagination of some human prophet who was able make others believe in his own private hallucination.
Jesus revealed the actual nature of God which is a family: the Father, the Son and the love that binds them, the Holy Spirit.
I have practiced Hinduism and Bhuddism and at their core they are bogus. Nirvana and samadhi (ultimate consciousness) are far off dreams compared to the simple Judeo-Christian thanksgiving and praise of God.
In fact, living each day with gratitude and thanksgiving through the mercy of Jesus Christ is something anyone can do at any time. It is the ultimate consciousness. You don't have to be an anti-social monk meditating on a remote mountain.
You just have to be baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
@When_We_Were_Both_Cats@xanga - I welcome a challenge. I love questions that challenge me to think about why I believe what I do. :) This question actually wasn't asked of me by an atheist (or non-Christian for that matter), which might surprise you, however, I definitely could see an atheist ask that question in a debate/discussion.
I felt it vital to answer this question because I have been working on, for some time, making my faith my own - not what others want it to be or think it should be and not just what I've been taught (real reading and digging into the Bible on my own - and yes, even a few other religious texts - non-Christian. I was also challenged at the beginning of the year to read something at least each week that I do not agree with. That's been both challenging and enlightening.)
@CitizenDon@xanga - "With all due respect, Vishnu and the Spaghetti Monster got nothin on Jesus. That's why." I agree, wholeheartedly. Don't get me wrong there. :)
Yea, I don't understand either. Zeus was a much cooler god. He was powerful and a player. All hail Zeus.
Jesus is the only one who rose from the dead. He transcended to the spiritual...
@Bubbathecat2010 - "Jesus revealed the actual nature of God which is a family"
Yes! There's really no better way to explain the Godhead which comes close to allowing our minds to wrap around the concept of God and what we are becoming in Him. We are members of the family of God----The God Family!---As His children, destined to share in His nature! ("We don't yet know what we shall be, but when He comes, we will see Him as He is and will become like Him" [paraphrase--I John 3:1-3). Your comments are 'spot on'. LAW--
@ashleyannaka@xanga - Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to sound "harsh" ... should have added
.
Few reasons for me:
Jesus is the first one I know in religious field, the first...
And second, I believe in him. Just simple belief.
I don't understand why I believe Jesus, may be affected by spirit...
Actually I am not sure i believe in God, sorry, but i believe that Jesus existed and moved a lot of people, and brought hope to people when it was needed. That alone is to be celebrated.
i tend to judge the central figure of a religious movement (historical or mythological) by the fruits of their labors. so, on a scale from 1-5 (5 being highest) Jesus is a 3. i certainly think the historical person called Jesus existed. but i'm hoping that a vast majority of his followers have gotten the message wrong.
plus, there's not a lot about Christianity that is original. Dumuzi, Achilles, Baal and Osiris were all resurrected. Odin hung on a tree and suffered. tons of contemporaries called themselves "messiah" without any theological implications. and most Christian holidays are adaptions of existing pagan holidays. i'm having trouble seeing exactly what Christianity brought to the table that was new.
and i also don't agree that the evidence in support of Christianity (predictions coming true, miracles, etc) are as obvious as Christians make them out to be. it comes across as nothing more than propaganda.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Well Jesus was a poor carpenter at the edge of know civilization (Modern people would say redneck) who distrusted worldly authority and taught that what matters is not how much money you have, but how you treat people around you.
Where as today the people popularly known as the Christian party are the republicans.
So yeah I would say majority of his followers got his message wrong.
Why not Jesus. Whatever the name, the important information the bible present is
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, so the word is important, and the word was with God
If Jesus was the Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth, why would the Apostle Paul use the phrase in the form of God? If Jesus was indeed God, then how can God be found in the form of God?
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who is God and who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. (Philippians 2:5-6)
He “made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.”
but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
So why not Jesus:
@JCCroom@xanga - well, one can only hope :)
just thought of a very relevant quote:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible
gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
@Bubbathecat2010 - "Salvation history is ancient and specific, took place over centuries and was beheld by thousands upon thousands of witnesses.
All
other religions are the figment of the imagination of some human
prophet who was able make others believe in his own private
hallucination."
I'm sorry but this isn't true. The biblical history of Jesus (and the rest of the bible) isn't exactly scholarly reliable history. If you cut out Christian "scholar"endeavors, salvation history will immediately start to look like that of every other religion. We can barely prove that Jesus existed; much less that he was divine.
I don't mean to offend anyone but patrons of every religion have the natural tendency to greatly exaggerate the actually credible history supporting their religion, while immediately dismissing that of other religions with mere slight of hand - as you have here.
Two quotes that I think are just a bit relevant to when you decide why you pick one over another.
A lot of the powerful religious leaders, from Jesus
to Buddha to Tibetan monks, they're really talking about the same
things: love and acceptable, and the value of friendship, and respecting
yourself so you can respect others.
-Jena Malone
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who
said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own
reason and your own common sense.-Buddha
No one picks Jesus; He has already reached out to everyone first.
I believe the message that God sent into my life through another one of His faithful servants; this message of His sacrifice and plan for His people (not just me individually but His children), has inspired in me a great love.
I believe the Bible. I believe Jesus Christ is God. Therefore, I quote what Jesus Himself said:
John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
I have a slightly different version of the question. Why Jesus over God? Why in the Christian religion does it seem that Jesus, the son of God, is worshipped more than God himself?
Interesting. Incidentally, I had a discussion with my colleagues on the topic of creationism. They were saying that if creationism is taught in schools, why should it be the creation account of Christianity rather than the creation accounts of other religions.
Again, it comes back to the question... "Why Jesus?"
Apologetic reasoning and historical evidence on their own, as compelling as they may be, might convince the brain, but we're forgetting one important element of humanity... the "heart". It takes a third element - the Holy Spirit - to work in a person's heart.
I'm sure many Christians here would agree that having a personal relationship with Jesus (through the intermediary of the Holy Spirit) makes a world of difference. Otherwise the Bible is just another book of literature and history.
@When_We_Were_Both_Cats@xanga - Your major error is to blithely assume that Salvation History has anything to do with a secular academia that is completely hostile to Judeo-Christianity.
Additionally, you concoct an arbitary standard of judgement, drape it in equally concocted adjective like "scholarly" and use it to dismiss a truly remarkable and authenically historic spirtual tradition that spans millenia. That isn't so much offensive as it is completely absurd.
The traditions and profound wisdom of Judeo-Christianity have been passed down faithfully and in tact since Moses began penning Genesis and since the prophets began teaching and preaching the Word of God.
The greatest problem with the modern philosophy that you subscribe to is that it does not demand the intellectually honest pursuit of truth. Modern philosophy teaches that truth is relative and so the truth can be proclaimed by anyone, not searched for by everyone.
Such a state of affairs is the institutionalization of stupidity. For the Bible teaches that the rejection of wisdom leads to foolishness.
"Your major error is to blithely assume that
Salvation History has anything to do with a secular academia that is
completely hostile to Judeo-Christianity."
If not "secular academia" then what standards do you use to test your biblical salvation history against?
"Additionally, you concoct an arbitary
standard of judgement, drape it in equally concocted adjective like
"scholarly" and use it to dismiss a truly remarkable and authenically
historic spirtual tradition that spans millenia. That isn't so much
offensive as it is completely absurd.
The traditions and profound wisdom of
Judeo-Christianity have been passed down faithfully and in tact since
Moses began penning Genesis and since the prophets began teaching and
preaching the Word of God."
I'm not challenging the fact that such traditions exist and are passed down. It is the claims of such traditions - such as jesus' divinity and the existence of God and his prophets, et cetera, that Christianity is asserting.
"The greatest problem with the modern philosophy that you subscribe to"
Since you appear to know, what modern philosophy do I subscribe to?
"is that it does not demand the
intellectually honest pursuit of truth. Modern philosophy teaches that
truth is relative and so the truth can be proclaimed by anyone, not
searched for by everyone."
I'm sorry but that is completely wrong. I really don't mean to be offensive or insulting but that does NOT reflect modern philosophy by any stretch. Modern philosophy (as in that of scholarly, peer-reviewed philosophy journals) is strictly rational, peer reviewed as mentioned, and any implications that might spill over into science are tested against physically. There is no dogma and nothing is above criticism; everything is scrutinized. That actually IS the honest pursuit of truth. There is barely a shred of ultimately relative/subjective philosophical theory that stands up to modern scrutiny.
Furthermore, I'm afraid your argument is self-defeating. If this oh-so-relativistic modern philosophy is opposed to your Christianity, then how can it have the anything-goes, "truth can be proclaimed by anyone" style? If the truth could be proclaimed by anyone, then that would include Christians.
@CitizenDon@xanga - "Unlike those others you mention, Jesus is an
historical personage whose origins can be traced back - genealogically
and prophetically - to the time of creation. His is a continuation of
God's revelation to the Jews and, before that, to Abraham and
earlier. His coming, His suffering, His resurrection, His Kingdom were
all prophesied centuries in advance. He made claims about Himself that
none of those others made - to being God's Son, I AM, a ransom for sin.
He predicted His own death and resurrection, and the continued preaching
of Jesus as Messiah even after His "death" demonstrates that
something inexplicable happened (His predictions came true). Unlike
other religious "founders," Jesus' grave is empty. With all due respect,
Vishnu and the Spaghetti Monster got nothin on Jesus. That's why. "
But to play devils advocate the tomb could be empty for any number of reasons. One is that they simply threw his body away in a trash heap and decided not to bury it. Another could be it was eaten by dogs. To be fair none of us were there so how could we verify what happened to it? All we have as Christians are faith that these things happened and a twisted psuedo-rationalism that attempts to cover up things that are irrational and our own practical living breathing relationship w/ divinity. Granted that's a lot but to say that it is somehow more than the spaghetti monster is a little disingenuous.
p