I was just watching an interview on YouTube of Alister McGrath. The host asked him, "Can you be a Christian and believe in evolution?" McGrath, himself an evolutionist, answered, "Yes." That struck a chord with me and set me to thinking. Is Christianity a buffet of belief choices? Is it really some sort of spiritual Wal-Mart where we can browse and choose what we like before having to "buy" it? Do our beliefs (what we believe) and our actions (what we do) matter to God? If they do matter to God, then it goes without saying that we should seek hard to find out what He thinks on a subject and then agree with Him.
John Wimber once said, "If I'm going to call myself a Christian, then I must believe what Jesus believes and do what Jesus does." Now, I understand that there are those topics that some would call "gray areas" where believers have different convictions. Christianity certainly allows for that - on non-essentials (See Romans 14 - 15). However, using the creation/evolution question as an example, if the Scriptures (which have largely been believed by Christians throughout Church history to the inspired and infallible word of God) say that God created the world by simply speaking it into existence, shouldn't I simply take it at that? If God said it clearly, should I debate it (I'm referring to any area that He speaks on)?
When I look back over my 30 years as a Christian, I have come to believe in the ongoing process of conversion. By that, I mean that there are things that I believe today that I didn't 10 or 20 years ago. But, if I were to describe as simply as possible the conversion process, I would have to say that it's a choosing to agree with God. And as I move along with Him, He is faithful to reveal new areas where I have disagreed with Him. When He does, I lay down what I think and believe about the particular issue and I agree with Him on it. And from that point on, I own what He says as my belief and conviction. All of this, however, takes place within the context of a love story, a love relationship of epic stature.
What are your thoughts? How would you describe Christianity? Does it matter what we believe? Does it matter if my beliefs differ from those of Jesus?
Recommend
Comments (32)
God also told you that if you eat shellfish, you should be put to death. (Or anyone else who eats shellfish, you're welcome to kill.) Do you go around killing people who eat shellfish? No, of course not. In that sense, you are picking and choosing. So why not about this? You're only allowed to have common sense about "minor" things? Lol.
@SerenaDante@xanga - There are biblical reasons why rules such as the one you mentioned do not apply. It's not "picking and choosing" if later in scripture, previous laws are voided for various reasons.
Similarly, sometimes our congress repeals laws that are no longer necessary. I'm not "picking and choosing" which laws I obey in our country, some have been removed for a reason.
@Theophilus166@xanga - I'm sure there are plenty of available examples from the NT as well to replace the one I gave, if you so dislike it.
I didn't know every christian had to be the same cookie cutter person.
People form their beliefs and opinions on different things. Some may choose the scientifically backed up evolution, and still believe in a god.
It's not "shopping at wal-mart" so much as it is being your own person and not choosing what everyone else is just because.
It's fairly possible to disagree with the almighty's teachin's.
Simple reason tells us that the six days of creation are not literal 24 hour days because it wasn't until the third day that the sun and moon were created and you need a sun and a moon to have a 24 hour day. So, if we use our reason, which God gave us, we can recognize that the Bible is neither a history book nor a science book. Then we can realize that evolution does not conflict with God creating us in any way whatsoever. Biblical literalism is for incredibly weak minds. Sorry, but it has to be said.
To be a Christian means to be Christlike. If you don't try to believe like Christ did, you're not a true Christian. However, I agree with @scrambledmegsntoast@xanga that the days during which God created the universe don't have to be literal days.
great post.. it is good to be a follower of Lord Jesus.. :)
I think were quick to take Christ and place him in this pre-packaged box called Christianity, and then place it on the shelf next to other religions, instead of holding it's profound truth, which is it's God, who sacrificed his son, and called us to be like hisin son in character and spirit. We are the light of the world, called to sacrifice our own desires, needs, for God. If we were to polarize it, it comes down to followers of God, versus people who are habitually lost in sin, and do not have a relationship with God.
It doesn't really matter if it's a false religion, government, culture, ideology, political party, nationality, organization. We over complicate our mission under God, which to bring the good news to other people about Jesus and then pray continuously for them. Showing the same love to everybody and offering the same service to everybody, and inviting them to return to God through Jesus.
It's when we allow ourselves to be placed in these fractions and institutions created by men, that we start to disrespect the sovereignty and ultimate authority of God.
@scrambledmegsntoast@xanga - "Simple reason tells us..."
Good point about the sun.
And simple love tells us that our loving God does not oppose change, but is open to, and encourages development. What God opposes is sin, and it is sin that close itself in, that does not have a future, that is fixed and stiff-necked.
@SpokenThruScott@xanga - "We over complicate our mission under God,
which to bring the good news to other people about Jesus and then pray
continuously for them. "
It is good to be simple, yes. Man basically takes things is thru the senses, thinks about things, then makes an act of the will. Christianity appeals to all three sides of man: it's an institution (Church) that appeals to reason, and calls us to salvation. Reason is part of us, and it's part of God's plan for Salvation.
@SerenaDante@xanga - Serena, you're right that there are examples in the NT. One example would be where Jesus said if your eye or hand offends you, pluck it out or cut off your hand. It's obvious that He was using hyperbole or else He would have a lot of hacked up followers. LOL! And, in retrospect, my example (creation/evolution) probably wasn't a good choice because there's a lot room there.
What I referring to was simply the repentance (which means "to change one's mind and direction") that comes with following Jesus. For example, I used to believe that all Roman Catholics are going to Hell simply for being in the "great whore of Babylon". After a long period of prayer and reasoning (because I'm also not talking about a mindless Christianity), I "saw" that I was wrong - scripturally, morally, and rationally. So, I changed my mind - I gave up what I had believed so fervently for so long and agreed with what I believed (and still do believe) to be the mind and heart of God. That's what I'm talking about.
Thanks for your input and your courtesy. I appreciate both.
@china_doll26@xanga - Thanks, China Doll.
@raingoaway_x@xanga - Thanks for your comment. I'm not referring to mindless, non-thinking Christianity. Please read my reply to Serena for an explanation.
Thanks for all of your responses. However, I'm a little surprised at being referred to as "cookie cutter". I'm also surprised at how my question brought up references to mindless, non-thinking, non-reasoning convictions. Jesus may have followers who fit that description but He didn't make them that way. However, the scriptures encourage us to trust in the Lord and to not rely on our own understanding. We have a very limited view. While reason is certainly a gift of God and should be employed as such, it's not fully reliable. Please see my comments to Serena for a fuller explanation. Thanks, everyone.
Evolution vs. Creation again, Revelife?
@scrambledmegsntoast@xanga made some good points, which I would like to expand on further...there's a big difference between macro (humans evolving from a common ancestor) vs. micro evolution (small changes occurring over time). I see no contradiction in being Christian and believing in micro evolution. Furthermore, since Adam and Eve were supposed to live forever, we don't know how long they were in the garden before the fall. Could it have been thousands of years? Maybe. But why bother stressing over it?
I don't think Christians believing in evolution is a threat to their salvation, to be honest. I also think it's a mistake to make that issue the end-all, be-all of faith because we could end up scaring off potential believers if we make them think they need to be literal 6-day creationists in order to have Jesus...which is what Christianity is REALLY about. "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved." No questions about it.
@scrambledmegsntoast@xanga - Excellent comment!
A day on Jupiter is only about 10 hours, for example. The 24 hour earth day is a result of all the factors that went into forming planet earth and has no theological significance.
The Bible is quite clear that it is impossible for man to understand the mind of God. So if God speaks creation into existence all we can do is humbly study creation (through science) to uncover its vast mysteries.
By looking out at the vast distances of outer space with telescopes like Hubble and Spitzer we know for a fact that the universe of today is vastly different then it was 14 billion years ago.
We live in a dynamic universe, not a static one.
Read "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell. Really.
I used to agree with you. I was *raised* to agree with you. But when I did, when I accepted everything the evangelical church told me and did everything I was supposed to, my Christianity wasn't fulfilling at all. Looking back, I'm not convinced it was Christianity at all. Ironically, it was when I basically left the evangelical umbrella, threw out everything I'd been taught about God and the Bible, and began the process of studying and seeking to see what was really true, that I found peace in Christ. My church never showed me scientific facts. They told me that the majority of scientists believe global warming is either a hoax or not man-made. They never spoke accurately about other religions or belief systems. I was told Wicca was the practice of black magic, and not to be legalistic or judgmental but reading Harry Potter is going to lead you down the wrong path. They never spoke accurately about themselves, either. They said they were *not* a religion, and anyway our religion was better than theirs because when they're fanatics it's a bad thing, but for us, it's a compliment. They never spoke accurately about politics. I was told the only important things to keep in mind while voting were: banning abortion, keeping marriage unequal (you can interpret that in two ways; both are accurate), and keeping more of your money in your own pockets.
I strongly believe God doesn't want us to be automatons who obey unthinkingly on command, who believe whatever they're told to believe without thought. One of the major problems with the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" line of thought is that it leaves no room for anyone's opinion other than your own. When you force your interpretation of a passage onto someone else, it's tainted.
One thing I agree with you about: Christianity isn't a checklist of beliefs to adhere to or not, or "buffet"--I would suggest that these things matter far less than we've been led to believe. Go back and read through the words and teachings of Jesus again, if you can, with a fresh outlook. Don't impose what you've been taught about salvation or theology, just listen to Jesus first. Jesus never gave the same answer twice when people asked him how they could be saved. For a particularly compelling passage, read Matthew 25. Or go back and read Micah. What God requires of us is to live justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God. There is no list, no creed...the very existence of a creed, the act of trying to enforce it on others who call themselves followers of Christ, negates the "walk humbly" part of that equation.
@sacredfly@xanga - I think that is all very fair and I am glad you don't think I or my fellow Catholics are going to Hell anymore
. My point about using reason is that when we use reason, we see that parts of the Bible simply do not make sense if taken literally. But that is ok because we realize that the Bible is the inspired word of God, not the dictated, word for word, transcription of God. The inspired authors were allowed to use metaphor, and were constrained by their understanding of the inspired messages they received. I have never felt that accepting that the Bible is not word of word infallible and free from contradiction in any way lessens my faith or makes God imperfect. It makes the humans who interpreted His words imperfect.
People only believe the Bible to be literally perfect and having no contradictions word for word because the Bible says so. What if that passage was misunderstood?
Hm. Well, I didn't always agree with what my parents told me, whether it was a command, a request, or a belief/idea. That didn't mean I defied them every time I didn't agree with them, or that I disrespected them every time I disagreed with them. I think it can be the same with God. Not understanding or agreeing doesn't mean that you don't want to, and it doesn't mean that you don't try. And, as you said, Christianity is not just something that takes five seconds to do. Over the span of 10 to 20 years, you have found that there are areas in which you did not agree with God on things, but throughout the span of time have come to change your mind.
When it comes to evolution, I think that a lot of people see the scientific evidence and wonder how, if there is tangible proof that something happened that the Bible seems to directly contradicts, it is there in the first place.
Going along the lines of the question of evolution vs. Bible, I think that that is what a lot of Christians (and non-Christians) need to try to reconcile when faced with the evidence. Some cannot reconcile it, others can.
@sarahzthoughts@xanga - Thanks for your response. Good points. Interestingly, the word "confess" in the verse that you quoted means "to agree with".
@sacredfly@xanga - But evolution has nothing to do with that
Xanga friends,
I appreciate so much your courteous responses and insights. Thanks! I want to clarify that the issue of my post wasn't intended to be about whether you believed in evolution or not, or whether you could do so and be a Christian. I apologize that I began with a misleading idea. The question posed to McGrath simply caused me to think of how many times I've heard sincere and honest Christians say that they felt certain issues were open to discussion or opinion that Jesus and the Scriptures are clear on (like sex outside of marriage or homosexuality or murder - stuff like that. And I realize that some might disagree even on those.) The question again is not about a specific isolated topic, but instead about what is "the faith"? Or maybe, it would be better to ask, can we decide what Christianity is "for ourselves" privately, individually? I will probably place another post next week that goes deeper into the intended subject. Thanks, again.
@sarahzthoughts@xanga - You're right. LOL! But that wasn't the intended point of my discussion. The intended point was - and I admit that I did a poor job of stating it clearly - Can you be a Christian and disagree with God? In particular, can you disagree with Him on something (not necessarily creation / evolution) that He speaks clearly on and still be called a Christian or a follower? If I want to get somewhere and ask you to be my guide, can I still be called a "follower" if I disagree with your directions, be it one or many? (Another poor illustration but I'm short on time at the moment.) Thanks for telling me your thoughts. I appreciate it very much. My goal is not to argue, but to share and hopefully learn or encourage others.
@sacredfly@xanga - I think when it comes down to it, we will always have questions. The things we aren't sure about where we feel like we need to use our "human interpretation" skills, we should leave to prayer or try to translate in its original context as best we can. Otherwise we will have skewed interpetations that can be used to justify sin, which is never a good idea. If the scientific world can admit that some things can't be explained, then the same can go for biblical conundrums.