Thursday, 31 December 2009

  • The Gospel for Nice People

    By Will Green

    Sometimes it can be a bit hard to talk about Jesus to some people because in most of the situations they are in every day, they do the right thing. So when people hear from let's say, a fiery preacher that they are 'liars', 'haters', 'coveters' and other negative stuff they may think 'Well that may apply to some people but not really me'.

    How should one think about presenting the gospel to a non-Christian who is an extremely nice, loving, self-sacrificial person who almost always looks out for the interests of others? I believe it has an added degree of difficulty that is not present if you are talking to someone who has done some really awful stuff in their life.

    Here are a couple of important points to think about on this issue.

    The first is that there are some people who are good enough to do the right thing in most of the situations which they are in every day. But this does not mean that they would do the right thing in really, really challenging situations. So when God looks at such a person, He sees not only that they would do the right thing on most days, but also that if they were put in a really challenging situation that they would fall short and do the wrong thing.

    An example of this kind of possibility can be found from the Stanford prison experiment (link). When people do the wrong thing, it's often not that they are 'bad apples' as much as apples that have been put into 'bad barrels'. In the prison experiment, the professor got a group of normal college students together and gave some of them great power over the rest. The nasty results showed what can happen when people are put into extraordinary situations. A similar thing might be going on with the goodness we have every day versus what goodness we would have under a lot of pressure.

    So when God looks at us He sees our failures in situations that haven't occurred yet, and which may never occur, but which still apply to us because it's how we would act. We shouldn't be willing to do the wrong thing in these not-yet-occurring situations, but we are. Thus, if you hate someone, you are a murderer in a situation where you have absolute power. If you lust after people other than your spouse, you are an adulterer in a possible situation. If you are tempted to lie, you are a liar in a possible situation. So God sees these potential sins, and thus we can be sinners in a pretty big way but about potential stuff rather than actual stuff.

    A second point to remember is that one way you can talk about the gospel is that we are all horrible sinners and so on, but another way is a lot gentler. The point of the gospel was ultimately to get humans to hang out with God and be perfectly happy forever. Happiness in heaven is about experiencing the happiness of God. See Psalm 16:11; 36:8-9, and Romans 14:17 which says: "For the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." If someone isn't willing to meet God's standards then it's hard to see how they could have access to God's happiness in the Holy Spirit. It would be hard for that person to live with the Holy Spirit, and for God to live with that person, if they don't want to meet God's standards. So the deal is: not being willing to meet God's standards = you can't experience God's happiness through the Holy Spirit, and so you can't go to eternal life.

    God's standard is perfection as shown by the life of Jesus (not our own idea of perfection), and the only way to meet that standard is to accept that you can't meet it and that you need God's help. When Jesus died for us "our old self was put to death on the cross with him" (Rom 6:6a) and "It is no longer I who [faces situations where I cannot avoid sinning] but Christ ... living in me [who faces those situations and will always do the right thing]" (Gal 2:20a). Thus, anyone can meet God's standards because Jesus can do everything related to meeting God's standards in someone who accepts him, and so they don't have to worry about it at all as long as they genuinely trust Jesus.

    So the gospel doesn't have to be about how everyone is a horrible, horrible sinner necessarily. Although I think that we usually overestimate how good we are, so maybe we are worse sinners than we think, even the really, really nice non-Christian. Presenting the gospel can be more like, "Well I know you're a really, really nice person, but getting to heaven isn't about being really nice. It's about being willing to meet God's standards, which is a perfect standard. Because eternal life consists in experiencing God's happiness in the Holy Spirit. And you can't experience God's happiness in the Holy Spirit if you aren't willing to meet God's standards, because the conflict between you two will be too great (or something like that). However nice you are, this is a situation that can't be gotten around. So to make it to eternal life you either need to meet God's standard, or accept you can't meet it and that Jesus took all of our wrongful intentions towards others onto himself on the cross."

Comments (9)

  • OutOfTheAshes@xanga

    Basically... more carrot, less stick?

  • musterion99@xanga

    Almost everybody will admit that they're not perfect and have sinned at some time in their life.

  • willgreen

    "Basically... more carrot, less stick?"

    This is a 'CS Lewisian' view of hell where it's basically existing like we do now, forever, with the happiness we have now.  It might be fun for a few thousand years, but then it gets boring, but people endure it forever rather than go to heaven and love God and people the way God does.  So the only way out is to experience a new kind of happiness, which is eternal life, which is God's happiness.

  • gmx0@xanga
    Any sin is really awful. Especially pride.
  • Singersaint@xanga

    @willgreen - I have news for you.  C.S. Lewis has not the only viewpoint of life in Heaven. As a Mormon, I think we will be presenting the Gospel to those who have not accepted Jesus as their personal friend and savior, yet. I am tallking about all those we baptise --  towards a better life, eternally, than to be in Hell, forever. You see, we baptise our dead family members and friends for the purpose of throwing around Salvation to them for a long, long time. once we are there. Or until they get it right. When they meet Jesus in person, up there, they will.  ...Love, Sandy

  • BiblicalTruth2@xanga
    Jesus wasn't very NICE when he talked to the masses... why should we be if he was not?!


    REPENT!


    REPENT change your ways or you will not enter the kingdom!


    WOW that does not sound nice to me...


    You see Jesus was not concerned with converting the "world", or the masses.. instead Jesus proclaimed his way the against-masses (anti means in place of) so his way is contrary to the masses and was always supposed to be



    1 John 2:15
    Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.


    John 15:19
    If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.


    John 7:5-8
    5For even his own brothers did not believe in him.
    6Therefore Jesus told them, "The right time for me has not yet come; for you any time is right. 7The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. 8You go to the Feast. I am not yet going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come.


    John 3:20
    For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.


    You think Jesus wants you to be the churches gospel spreader?
    Matthew 23:15
    “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

  • too_pretty_to_die@xanga

    i don't see the logic in being judged on things that will never happen to me, simply because God is omnipotent.  if that's the case, i am essentially being judged on my nature (something God-given).

  • willgreen

    @BiblicalTruth2@xanga - I agree with your post and I don't think that this approach should be used unless the non-Christian is a 'moral saint'.  My original title for it was 'The gospel for people who are really, really nice' (i.e. amazingly nice non-Christians) and of course in each case we present the gospel we need to go to the Biblical model first, and use this as a possible option.

  • BiblicalTruth2@xanga

    @willgreen - Morality does not matter to God... God requires more then morality and looking at God's law and asking the moral person to conform to it is JARRING, and needs to be for they must be willing to give up their life... and moral people tend to live by many codes and rules that God doesn't... His rule is follow Him, and obey Him, and then you will love others... this is the Law...


    Check out my post on the "goodness and severity of God" from the TEN commandments....
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