Monday, 21 December 2009

  • Billboard Questioning Jesus' Conception Causes Outrage

    [Photo: AFP/Getty Images]

    It's not the kind of image you'd expect from a church. The billboard erected outside the Anglican St. Matthew-in-the-City Church in Auckland, New Zealand, briefly featured a somber Mary and Joseph laying in bed. The phrase above their visages read: Poor Joseph. God was a hard act to follow.

    “What we're trying to do is to get people to think more about what Christmas is all about,” said church vicar and archdeacon Glynn Cardy. “Is it about a spiritual male God sending down sperm so a child would be born, or is it about the power of love in our midst as seen in Jesus?"

    The fresco-style images of Mary and Joseph look as if they've been lifted from any number of famous paintings depicting the two, but the situation they are in is vastly different. The picture seems to insinuate that Mary and Joseph had intercourse, a notion that goes against the beliefs of many other Christian denominations.

    Needless to say, the message wasn't met with open arms. In a matter of hours, the billboard was defaced by a man who climbed on his car and doused the image with brown paint. Later on, it was sliced with a knife and then ripped down by a group described by Cardy as “fanatics.”

    While the situation was ugly at best, the church, which claims to have very liberal views of Christianity, stands by the billboard and the message it presents. “This billboard is trying to lampoon and ridicule the very literal idea that God is a male and somehow this male God impregnated Mary,” Cardy explained.

    “We would question the Virgin Birth in any literal sense. We would question the maleness of God in any literal sense.”

    [Photo: JOHN SELKIRK/Stuff.co.nz]

    Do you agree or disagree with this church's belief on the conception of Jesus? Do you think Mary and Joseph had sex? Do you think people who disagree with the church's belief have the right to deface the billboard?

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Comments (90)

  • llamalima@xanga

    WAIT A SECOND, I'm from New Zealand...How embarrasing...=(


    Well, I know for a fact that St-Matthew's is a liberal church so I just ignore them. I would be surprised if they believed that Jesus even existed as a person. I would have thrown paint at the billboard as well if I knew that I wouldn't get caught.
  • danielle_thexdino@xanga

    That's not very respectful.
  • quicksandbuddy@xanga

    Well, obviously Mary and Joseph had sex because Jesus had siblings. But, this poster does a horrible job of conveying its intended message. It appears to be more of a crude joke than a thought-provoking image. I'd be offended by it if I saw it in a public area.

    @scrambledmegsntoast@xanga - Exactly. This is what separates Jesus from the demigods of classical mythology. While Greek and Roman gods had literal sex with humans to create demigods, there was no intercourse between God and Mary.

  • TheGreatBout@xanga

    I just want to know how the church would say this billboard conveys the power of love in our midst via Jesus. If they wanted it to be about love and less about sex then there are a lot more situations they could have placed the couple in.
  • k_Skrap_moua@xanga

    "Hard act to follow" is a broad statement.  Given the misinterpretations, this church fail to convey the message it wanted.  
  • MagisterTom@xanga

    @scrambledmegsntoast@xanga - @quicksandbuddy@xanga - Mark did say that Jesus had brothers. I know the Catholics believe this refers to cousins. But, there is nothing in Scripture to give us reason to believe that after Jesus' birth that Joseph and Mary didn't have sex.

    @scrambledmegsntoast@xanga - Many cults believe that.
  • MC_Shann@xanga

    I understand why some Christians would destroy the sign...


    Did Joseph and Mary sleep together. The written word would have us clearly believe they did...


    Matthew 1:24. Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25. and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.


    The context of the verse is clearly about sexual relations. When the scripture uses "know" in this sense it is about sex. Then the word "till" is used. Some verses use the word "until". The Greek word is heos, a conjunction, preposition and adverb of continuance, until (of time and place).


    Then there is the texts that speak of his other siblings...


    Luke 8:19. Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. 20.  And it was told Him by some, who said, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.''


    Matthew 13:55. "Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? 56. "And His sisters, are they not all with us?


    Since sisters is plural we can note that Jesus had at least 2. So in total we see that Jesus had as few as 6 siblings. Im sure that a few comments will be posted trying to refute the texts above and preserve man made traditions by painting them as cousins or sons of Joesph from another marriage but the first text. Matthew 1:25. Is unambiguous. Joseph "KNEW" her "after" Jesus's birth.



    Grace and peace!


    ~Michael 
  • TheModernBunny@xanga

    1. You mean do I believe that Jesus wasn't conceived by God? Agreed.

    2. Yes.

    3. No.

    Meanwhile, the billboard itself may be the most original bit of comedy I've seen all year.
  • subSacred@xanga

    Ha yeah...Mary and Joseph got married and never had sex?  According to the Bible, that is a very unGodly marriage.
  • t_sheffield@xanga

    I don't think it even came close to the intended message....

    but it was pretty funny:)
  • hubbaduh@xanga

    "“What we're trying to do is to get people to think more about what Christmas is all about,” said church vicar and archdeacon Glynn Cardy."

    Well, they failed miserably at that. Instead they've just pissed off a lot of people and made Christians look like idiots.
  • black_lie@xanga

    It just seems like a ribald joke. It doesn't make me think of Christmas , nor does it make me question anything. It just makes me go, "Ha ha."
  • WasaiWarrior@xanga

    Wait, what happened to scrambledmegsandtoast's comment?  Am I missing something here, or did some censoring go on?  That would be very ironic.
  • deepestrecesses

    I gotta admit.... I'd be exceptionally tempted to destroy that sign. 
  • aN_amAYzInG_storrII@xanga

    @MC_Shann@xanga -  agreed!
  • aN_amAYzInG_storrII@xanga

    that's a terrible sign. it isn't conveying the message of christmas in the slightest. the message of christmas is that jesus was born into the world to save it. how is

    that

     conveying the message of christmas? it looks like it's saying "sorry joseph, God was here first! you won't be able to do much after that."


    it's ridiculous is what it is.
  • When_We_Were_Both_Cats@xanga

    It perplexes me as to why people can't handle alternate views to their own, to the point of taking such blatantly disrespectful action to censor it.

    The atheist billboard were the same. The owners of the billboards got death threats ordering them to remove them.

    Defacing the sign only makes the defacer's positions look fragile, as they imaginably probably are.
  • ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga

     @MC_Shann@xanga - totally agree with you. I couldn't have said it better myself.
  • Shy___Away@xanga

    That's hilarious, and anyone who says it's not has no sense of humor.


    There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that they did not have sex, in fact, I'm fairly certain that there was a passage that stated that Joseph waited to "know" her until after the birth of the child. (Which would imply that he did have plans to consummate their marriage.)
    As for defacing private property, that's just downright disrespectful, and anyone who claims to have the love of the Holy Spirit within them is probably lying if they think that's ok. 
  • HolinessSeeker@xanga

    I disagree with the billboard because it undermines the miracle of the virgin conception by the Holy Spirit.  I also disagree with the idea that Joseph never had sex with Mary, Jesus did have siblings, therefore Joseph and Mary did have sex.  

    Although I totally disagree with the statement that was made on the billboard, I also disagree with those who destroyed it.  How is that showing the love of Christ?  There are other ways to stand firm in our faith.  When we as Christians fight with fire, we will get burned.  We are supposed to show love and mercy as Christ did, thus the reason He even came!  God is the one to judge, not us. I think we should be praying for the eyes of those who put the billboard up to be open and see the truth.  Jesus said that the truth will set us free.  Pray that they will see the truth of Jesus' miraculous conception, birth, and most importantly love.  Instead of judging, let us be a bit more loving.  
  • akarui_mitsukai@xanga

    Oh my gosh... A God who can create a living, breathing man from dirt and His own Godly breath of life -- and He somehow can't impregnate a woman with a son without having physical sex? The crazies. It's hard for me to understand how anyone who believes in God could question this.

    I do not believe God physically "slept with" Mary to impregnate her. I believe that Mary and Joseph had sex AFTER Jesus was born, as the Bible says.

    No, I do not believe the people who defaced it went about it the right way. I believe they have the right to protest, but not in that way (though I'm happy they covered it before too much damage was had, hopefully). I also don't respect the church for posting that for the world to see. It hurts. So, while undeserving of respect, I don't think defacing the board was the right thing to do, though I am thankful, in a way, that it was done.

    That board is just ludicrous!
  • akarui_mitsukai@xanga

    @k_Skrap_moua@xanga - True that.
  • akarui_mitsukai@xanga

    @llamalima@xanga - Haha, just last night I joked with my SO that we should move to New Zealand soon, because of our current President here in the states. :) After seeing this, I'm in shock... But yeah. I find the country so pretty! If you have any good sites to see in your country, please let me know. I would really like to visit one day! :)
  • gracefulpreeminence@xanga

    That made me laugh....
  • myfanwe@xanga

    Are you saying that Mary had more than one child by God? We know from the Bible that Jesus had brothers. How did they happen if Joseph wasn't their father?

    I wish I lived in New Zealand. I'd be soooo at that church!

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