I recently discovered a verse in the Bible: "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psalm 37:30)
And another: "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?" (I Corinthians 6:1-5)
So we're allowed to tell people that they're going to hell? Maybe I misinterpreted those verses, but then again, who's to know what the correct interpretation of any part of the Bible really is to begin with.
This made me sad, man, 'cause I don't want to judge anybody. I'd like to just love and be loved.
How would you interpret these verses? Do they say it's okay to judge, or is there another meaning for them?
After all these years, I thought it was wrong to judge. I recently discovered a verse in the Bible: "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psalm 37:30)And another: "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?" (I Corinthians 6:1-5)So we're allowed to tell people that they're going to hell? Maybe I misinterpreted those verses, but then again, who's to know what the correct interpretation of any part of the Bible really is to begin with.This made me sad, man, 'cause I don't want to judge anybody. I'd like to just love and be loved.
Comments (27)
There's just so much I could say about this one. About so many people who call themselves Christians but exert so much effort driving people away from Christ. But I think I'll leave that battle open for another day. And I'll address it with the jerks that do what I'm talking about.
Thanks for the post!
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.- Matthew 7:12
People who quote Bible verses about judging usually do so because they are degenerates and don't want anyone exposing them.
It is perfectly proper to discern between good and wickedness. The degenerate has no problem with a Catholic pedophile priest being exposed for his evil.
But they cry like babies if anyone gets in the way of their sexual promiscuity, their love for drugs, or their love of gluttony.
I hate it when a gluttonous, sex and drug addict quotes the Bible in order to make people feel guilty about what's right.
@gene546@xanga - That makes sense. So you can say, "Hey that's wrong, you shouldn't do that." But when you say something like, "You're a horrible person for doing that." That's where you're crossing the line, correct?
Someone "wise" who is going to be fair and ubiased, perhaps? Both passages say the word: wise.
if your judging someone falsely at a glance then its wrong, but righteous judgement is fine, where someone is straying and not following God's commandments then you can judge them so you can help them come back to the Lord.
I think that the first thing you need to do is come up with an operational definition of the word judge. We need to know specifically what in the world you're talking about before we can actually answer your question.
I believe that there are two judgments, normal judgment that occurs in the course of every day living and is necessary to determine right and wrong; what we call "discernment". Then there is the "particular" judgment, which is reserved to God alone. This is the judgment of our lives and our sins by God, it is His judgment that will determine our ultimate fate. I don't see how either of these verses tell us we get to tell people they are going to hell, to me that is a judgment for God alone because only He knows the heart and our heart must be judged alongside our actions.
Remember that in the Sermon on the Mount, when Jesus spoke against judgment, He was not speaking of all judgment, but of hypocrisy.
It's my opinion that we as Christians have to Judge.
"The Spiritual person judges all things 1 Cor. 2:15
And we know that someday we will judge;
"Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?" 1 Cor. 6:3
There are a lot of instructions about judging, many that tell us that we must first judge ourselves, and that in the way that we judge others, so will we be judged. We're told to judge with "righteous judgment".
I think the key thing here is "Spiritual person"-- this does not mean what we often think of now-a-days as "spiritual"... but rather someone who is filled with the Spirit of Christ.
People all too often are quick to spout off "God says not to judge" as a way out of accountability.
God tells us what is right and wrong, and tells us that one thing we should use that information for is to speak out against wrong doing. You can't do that without "judging" people's actions. Although we should use extreme caution about judging one's eternal destiny, if someone is clearly breaking God's law, we have every right to say "you are sinning, you need to repent".
If someone is boozed up more often than not, there is nothing wrong with telling them that they are a drunkard and informing them that God isn't pleased with this. That is a righteous, accurate judgment. If someone is cheating on their spouse, there is nothing wrong with calling them adulterous and informing them that God isn't pleased with it. I believe it is wrong for us to not judge in this way. Of course we should not make it an excuse for slandering, belittling, gossip or name calling. And we shouldn't feel free to make all kinds of other moral assumptions about people because of their specific errors.Rather our motives should include encouraging them to live God honoring lives through speaking the truth, and reminding them of how seriously God takes sinful behavior.
Maybe we should just ignore that one like most people do with the leviticus one about shrimp.
We can judge action, but only God can judge motive.
"This made me sad, man, 'cause I don't want to judge anybody." That's like saying "I don't want to ruin anyone's day and tell them that the bridge is out on a stormy night." If people are headed for eternal damnation, they need to be warned.
One really does have to have wisdom. Wisdom comes from seeking and never giving up until one finds. Wisdom comes from walking through fire (not literally of course). One who is wise is like a piece of coal which under incalculable pressure has become a diamond. Wisdom does not come from suddenly being "saved" by joining this or that religion. Wisdom is not an authority to condemn others to hell or to disapprove of those who are different. Wisdom is to truly "Know Thyself" and when we reach that lofty perspective we have compassion for everything and everyone. Judging then becomes a willingness to walk alongside a person rather than condemning a person. The reason Jesus condemned others, such as the time he overturned the tables of merchants in a house of worship, was because those others were leading people away from wisdom rather than toward it. There is no religious authority amongst the wise. There is no parroting of scripture. Scripture is simply a verification and the attempt to describe those who have become wise in the past, and of those who haven't. Think about this too. If you are willing to judge someones' actions are you also willing to take full responsibility for that persons life? Because that is what you are attempting to do. For example, if you judge someone's career choice and that person actually does follow your advice and chooses a career you suggest and fails miserably,are you going to put food on that person's table and feed his or her family for the rest of your life and leave them sufficient funds in your will should you die before they do?
One other thing we shouldn't overlook from 1 Cor 6 is: "do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church" and "dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment."
When it comes to an actual court, we as Christian voters should be voting for judges (or people who appoint Judges) that are Christian and make every good effort to not allow a non Christian on the bench. Yet, many non Christians are judges. At least if being judged for a mistake you made, I think that I Corinthians 6 is telling us we dishonor God to carelessly allow non Christians to determine judgment against a Christian. Have your attorney try to get a judge change through if necessary.
IF that sounds reasonable and fair then understand - it IS the sort of thing that Muslims take very seriously and helps explain why THEY will not soon have a separation of church and state. That is what troubled me about former President Bush's announcement that the coalition forces would replace Saddam's dictatorship with a government elected by the Iraqi people. Is it right to override Paul's spin on judgment for a more peaceful existence? America has said yes and decided we would have the Golden Rule override Paul on the issue of Judgment. Does that make it right with God? Like always, where you are in your spiritual journey will bias when you stop searching the Bible after finding support for your hearts answer to that question.
There's a difference between condemnation and judgement. The well used verse to take the plank out of your own eye before you try to take the speck out of your brothers eye is saying BEFORE you attempt to help your brother see that he has a speck in his eye make sure your heart and life is in check with God. No one will ever be perfect so we can't be flawless but if God shows you something in a fellow Christians' life then you are to approach them with love and kindness about what God has shown you (with scripture and the Holy Spirit).
The world however, (you said you can tell people they are going to hell) we are told we are not supposed to try to judge because we are only able to follow God's expectations based on the grace, strength, and help of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 5:12-13). If the Christian refuses to acknowledge their problem and turn you are supposed to cut them off from the body (I highly disagree with this idea but hey, it's in there), but if someone in the world does it you are to simply give them the good news of the gospel and leave the Holy Spirit to do the convicting, not you beating them down with your words even if it is the truth.
@HollowTendencies@xanga -
No, because you cannot separate the sin from the sinner (if that were the case), the appropriate way to approach that virtual case would be, “you behave is morally wrong; you’re risking your soul.” By the word “risking”, you are neither asserting that he/she actually is being judge by you; nor in the worst case that it would actually lose the soul. Only, you’re lovely warning that person. Gene546
@FullTruthSeeker - I feel you take that quote out of context, the idea is that we are not to even make it to the court. We are to settle our dispute within our own Church body by appointing a wise unbiased judge from within the church. By going to the outside court we are tarnishing the name of Christ because we appear that we need the worlds help to figure out who is in the right or wrong. Since we all have the "codes and laws" by which we are to opperate we should not need anyone to decide what is right for us. Matthew 18:15-17 tells us that we are to go alone when a brother offends us, with two witnesses if he then denies us, and then go ahead and take him to court if he refuses to acknowledge his wrong (just he way you would treat a non-Christian aka tax collector of pagan) and the court should enforce Romans 13:1-7 which states that we must submit to the laws of the land in the way they see fit. (unless it specifically contradicts scripture)
I leave you with this scripture: Matthew 5:25-26"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny."
Look, we have a habit in our nature to judge other except ourself. That is something. Now we are judging Tiger Wood, President Obama, any person that we see and think they are perfect, we judge.
We also judge with hate in our heart. As long as it's not us. I can go throught out history, and we allow tabloid to dictate our belief and understanding.
Now in MATTHEW 7:1-5: Judge not, that ye be not judged. We should not think yuorself as better than other people, and set yourself up as their judge. Since we cannot understand motive, we are incapable of judging another.
When we judge or critcize someone, we are passing sentence upon ourslef, for we show that we are a participant with Satan, the accuser of the brethren. The Lord say"Examine ourslefs, whether we be in the faith; prove your own selves. This is our work. "I we would judge wouself, we should not be judged. 2 Cor. 13:5 and 1 Cor. 11:31
We really don't know you going to hell or not....In Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
@quiversound@xanga - hahaha
@TheSutraDude@xanga - Very well stated.
@Shy___Away@xanga - Why thank you.
@scrambledmegsntoast@xanga - I completely agree. I couldn't have said it better myself. :)
@therantingprophet - I understand your concern. With the help of the Holy Spirit, I had already refined the point with understanding for this world using a passage you also sighted, Romans 13:1 and also your reference to Matthew 18. That's cool. However, you started a paragraph indicating a point presented was made using scripture out of context. You then expanded on it and seemed to finish the paragraph in agreement. Good. The courts have their use.
If it was disturbing to suggest Muslim's settling disputes among Muslims has possible Biblical foundation in 1 Cor 6, that's okay. There is little need to repeat and expand on another participants talking points. The Holy Spirit helps believers not let Romans 15:14 go to their head. If someone reading and tracking the entire discussion erroneously concludes Muslims are more devout to God than Christians, that was not the aim.
@therantingprophet - See, I agree. I once told someone, "Judge yourself first before judging others," and then someone said, "You aren't supposed to judge at all," which is what led me to write this.