Friday, 11 December 2009
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Four Annunciations: Learning to Appreciate Mary
Originally posted on December 22, 2008, by SirNickDonDa Vinci, oil on wood c. 1472, FlorenceMary, in a very real sense you also were the salvation of the world. We forget to ask ourselves what could have happened if every maiden in the land had said no? We forget to feel the sacrifice you made, the dreams and plans you set aside, the shame and suffering you endured. What were you - thirteen, maybe fourteen years old? We're not sure our daughters your age are old enough to be seeing boys, and here you are, bearing the weight of the world in your vulnerable belly.
Edward Burne-Jones, Oil on Canvas
1879, LiverpoolMary, even in this Christmas season I fear we overlook you too much. We forget that it was Eve who said yes, and led her husband, family, and world into this aion of nightmare, and just as much, it was you, Mary, who said yes, and led your husband, family and world into this new, unexplored aion of God's reign and grace. How little you could have understood of what your yes would mean, and how much wisdom and humility you showed in uttering it.
Dante Gabriel Rossetti, oil on canvas
1850, LondonMary, I'm just a Protestant. I have very little experience in venerating you. I'm probably doing it all wrong. But I hope you'll teach me, and teach the whole world, how to sing your song, how to say yes to God, how to bring Christ into the world. Show us, Mary, how to be fully human.
Henry Ossawa Tanner, Oil on canvas
1898, PhiladelphiaWhat do you feel about Mary's humble decision to say "yes" to God's will? What can we learn from her example?
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Comments (32)
She was a willing vessel! Out of respect to her, I do honor her for her obedience to God!
lovely <3.
Oh, this is much better than the original formatting. Good job on this one, Revelife.
"Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death."
I was raised Catholic but I'm not now. I guess that's why I sort of struggle with how far to go with my respect and love of Mary. I think of the song, "Breath of Heaven," which--I know--can be kind of cheesy, but the lyrics really make the plight of Mary during the time that Christ was being born more realistic and human to me. I'm glad she said yes.
Wow. Well-written! Mm, and certainly, there is much to learn.
If Mary had said no, someone else would have done it...
Angels are messengers of God. And Gabriel the archangel greeted Mary, "Hail, full of grace." What does it mean when God greeted Mary that way?
Protestants fail to understand what "full of grace" means. If you are a sinner, you are not full of grace. Mary was holy, immaculate.
And only such an immaculate person could have given birth to one also without sin, Jesus, Son of God.
At the wedding feast at Cana, Jesus began his public ministry because his mother requested it. Jesus protested, but he acquiested to the will of Mary, his mother.
Such reverence! We revere Mary deeply because Jesus, Son of God did.
@SirNickDon@xanga - @ed408@xanga - @LoBornlyte@xanga -
Happy Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe! What good timing this post was.
Thank you, SirNickDon, for your kind thoughts regarding Mary.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - "At the wedding feast at Cana, Jesus began
his public ministry because his mother requested it. Jesus protested,
but he acquiested to the will of Mary, his mother."
Good example of Mary's importance -- I can't see why anyone would try to place a limit on just how special and important Mary is to the world. The Bible says of Mary, "All generations will call me Blessed."
At Cana Mary gets Jesus to do something that He had not planned to do -- her Yes clearly has power.
I love those paintings, especially the DaVinci one. The Renaissance masters painted some gorgeous annunciations. I saw one by Fra Angelico at the museum yesterday...it was so beautiful I was almost moved to tears.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - Of course Jesus revered Mary. She was his mother. We should all respect our mothers so.
I have problems with Mary being "sinless", however. Becuase if she had to be "sinless" in order to give birth to Christ, then her mother would have had to be sinless to give birth to her, and her mother, and her mother. You would have had to have a line of sinless women since Eve, and since Eve was sinful, this cannot be so.
To say that Mary had to be sinless in order to birth Christ limits God's power. God can, and always, uses sinful vessels (David, Moses, Abraham, Esther, Paul) to serve His purposes. The only one who has ever been sinless is Christ. If Mary had been sinless herself, there would have been no need for Christ.
But of course, we should uphold Mary as an example of one who was willing to sacrifice everything, her family, her marriage, her comfort, her place in society, even her life, for the sake of God's will.
@Kate - I have problems with Mary being "sinless", however.
Then you have a problem with what is written clearly in Scripture. Just because we have problems understanding God's mysteries doesn't mean we disregard the truth as written in Scripture.
The Immaculate Conception is a mystery. It is not possible of us to understand how Mary became immaculate. But we must understand that she was immaculate because it is written in the Bible and taught by the Church.
Accepting the mysteries of Revelation opens us more and more to God's love.
@Kate - If Mary had been sinless herself, there would have been no need for Christ.
Only the Son of God can save. Everything Mary did was to point to Him. Mary is not divine, she is the proto-disciple and our mother. She is a type for the Church, the Bride of Christ, the Holy Mother, always faithful, always nurturing God's children.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - It is not written anywhere in Scripture that Mary was without sin. I don't buy that "full of grace" means "without sin". In fact, most translations use"highly favored" instead of "full of grace" (both the NIV and the NLT use this.) Never does the Bible say that Mary was perfect and sinless. Like I said, if it were possible for God to just make people sinless without a Savior, then a) Mary had no free will, and b) there would have been no need for Christ to die on the cross.
If Mary was human and if Mary was descended from Adam and Eve, then Mary was born with sin nature. God does not exclude anyone from this. That is why a Savior is needed.
@Kate - It is not written anywhere in Scripture that Mary was without sin.
One may find far more additional meaning in the Bible by understanding the meaning of the words and stories than is possible by only depending on what is explicitly said.
So although, God's greeting to Mary through the angel Gabriel, "Hail full of grace," does not explicitly say that Mary was without sin, that is exactly what it means. That's why it was written in the Bible, so there would be no question that Mary was Immaculate.
This was a very beautiful post and tribute to Mary. I agree, in many of the Christian denominations Mary is often set aside for the most part, only spoken about once in a while. I don't think Mary was mentioned very often when I was young and going to church and listening to sermons. Certainly, in November, December, and even January she was spoken of often in sermons I listened to, but not very often in the other months.
Even when I went to Sunday School we didn't seem to talk about her much.
I like this post, though, and I think she should be more...respected, I suppose, for a lack of a better word (because I think all Christian denominations that I know of do respect her) and remembered more often than just when Christmas is coming around. Although, naturally, I do understand why Christmas is the holiday that she is most talked about in, I still think it should be more often. :)
@LoBornlyte@xanga - Hmm....So well that also means stephen was also Sinless....
Since Acts 6:8 clearly says Stephen Full of Grace and power....
Well....I think u missed this one!! :)
Well then What do u say Bible is contradictory...
Since Paul says "FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD"
Well....Hmmmm let me see...
All implies everybody.....Well i dont see Mary or even stephen being excluded here...which should have been the case.
The thing is if something is God's Word...it reverberates all across the scripture...and not at one single verse.
If you accept Full of grace implies being Holy....then it contradicts this verse...
and if it contradictory...i think the the assumption itself was wrong in the first place.!!
@yahanvesh - Hmm....So well that also means stephen was also Sinless....
Since Acts 6:8 clearly says Stephen Full of Grace and power....Well....I think u missed this one!! :)
There is a big difference between Saint Stephen and the Virgin Mary. And without a clear understanding of Christian theology it is easy to read the Bible the way you have and come to erroneous conclusions.
Protestants make a big mistake by demoting Mary. By doing so a great deal of the meaning of the Gospel is lost.
As there was an Ark of the Covenant for the Jews, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. She carried God in her womb. That gives here a status unsurpassed by any other human being.
Mary is full of grace and blessed among women. She must be immaculate or else Jesus is not God. God cannot enter into the world through sin. For that would defy his nature of goodness and holyness.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - By so called Christian theology ...You mean lots of people who have added their thoughts to Gospel and say it was from God like Early Church fathers in your history.
Please respond in verses rather than your own thinking.....
If u would like to share something abt Christian theology I very much would like to know...but do so by giving verses from the Bible...."NOT QUOTES FROM YOUR FATHERS" accompanied with verses.
Actually i dont know if iam protestant or not...... All i know How Jesus Rescued me and I belong to him.
In case you are thinking ....i dint go through any formal training of Hating Mary or anything.
But I do am strictly against robbing the glory which belongs to MY JESUS.
Hmm....We demote Mary.???
"Protestants make a big mistake by demoting Mary. By doing so a great deal of the meaning of the Gospel is lost."
Or to say otherwise a great deal of new Gospel got created because some Fathers had so called visions from God about the exalted status of Mary which none of the Gospel writers did not mention.
Galatians 1:8 :"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto
you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Hmmm...well that rings a bell...I feel Paul is definitely referring to lots of extra Gospel which "the church" has been adding all through the years.
Just tell me this....is not true that you even consider the words of your Fathers as Scriptures apart from the Gospel already there???
This is where the actual misunderstanding lies.
When i say i believe in the Word of God im referring to only What Paul and other disciples have written and When u say Word of God you even add the lots of quotes and visions of early Church Fathers as part of Scripture.....which i refuse to believe keeping in consideration Galatians 1:8.
@yahanvesh - Or to say otherwise a great deal of new Gospel got created because some Fathers had so called visions from God about the exalted status of Mary which none of the Gospel writers did not mention.
The veneration of Mary in the Church began immediately. From John 19:20:
When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, hehold your son!' Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.
It is the will of Jesus that his own mother be our mother. It is the will of Jesus that we take his mother into our home to love and cherish as our own mother.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - Hmm..Well Ok ... U are right..
Hmm I ve never seen that statement....Wow What a discovery...
Seems my English was poor enough to understand that!!
I cant really argue when you are able to read verses like that!!
Well Hmmm...i really wonder....it is plain English and Jesus is entrusting his mother to John to care for his mother as he is not going to be there for her...
You frankly tell me...Do u understand it tht way when u read it yourself...or you understand that only when you lots of created catholic scripture attached with it.
NO WHERE BEFORE THIS VERSE OR AFTER THIS VERSE...is there any indication that referring to John implies referring to the World that is US...
If you give me more verses to corroborate this fact I would like to listen more from you....
I want some verse where God refers to John as the world that is Us.
Let us not argue just for the sake of it...
Lets try to exchange knowledge of the facts we are basing our faith upon.
I just want to know why do you see the verse that way.So there should definetely be some verse by which i think i made myself clear it should a verse fromt the Bible....not some quote by early Church Father.
Actually Muslims too try to interpret lots of Bible verses according to their benefit....
But well they are wrong ....
Reason: Because what they try to interpret from a single verse...
is either
Never again implied by any verse in the Bible..
or is even Contradicted by many more verses.
By the way its not John 19:20 ....its 26th verse...or is it different in a catholic bible??? I dont know i never seen one!!!
Please try to listen to God personally more rather than always taking what someone else says!
Also please do answer my other questions about what catholics consider as Scriptures...i just want to confirm what i know...
@yahanvesh - You frankly tell me...Do u understand it tht way when u read it yourself...or you understand that only when you lots of created catholic scripture attached with it.
The Catholic Church compiled the Bible in 382AD by the order of Pope Damusus I. So it is the Church that gave us the Bible, protected it and taught it for 2000 years. Since it the Church that gave us the Bible, it is only the Church that has the authority to interpret it.
All written material must be interpreted. Unless there is a teaching authority to say which is the correct interpretation, then there can be infinite interpretations. If the Bible is the truth, there can only be one truth, not infinite number of truths.
So yes, I learned about the Gospel from the Church since it the Church to whom Jesus gave his own authority.
From Matthew 16:18-19: 18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
Here is a verse from Saint John, 21:25
25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.
This says clearly that Scripture is not able to contain the entire Gospel message of Jesus. The doctrine you subscribe to, sola scriptura (scripture only), is not Biblical. It was never taught by Jesus, the Apostles or the Church.
Find one verse in the Bible that says the Gospel comes only from the Bible. That doctrine is an addition. It is a false teaching.
@yahanvesh - NO WHERE BEFORE THIS VERSE OR AFTER THIS VERSE...is there any indication that referring to John implies referring to the World that is US...
Jesus was in agony dying on the Cross. Yet he made sure he took care of his mother. That is powerful How many verses would please you?
Also, everything Jesus did was for our salvation. So he was doing much more than just looking out for his mother. He gave his mother to us while he was nailed to the Cross. That is so profound.
@LoBornlyte@xanga -
"Since it the Church that gave us the Bible, it is only the Church that has the authority to interpret it.
All
written material must be interpreted. Unless there is a teaching
authority to say which is the correct interpretation, then there can be
infinite interpretations. If the Bible is the truth, there can only be
one truth, not infinite number of truths."
Alas....U dont understand the need the Holy Spirit of God then.....coz the teaching authority you speak of was not given to any Human organization but only the Spirit of God can rightly interpret For it itself was the one who knows the real intention of the scripture.
I would like to differ on this that only Church has the right to interpret which has no Scriptural basis.First of all i know that this is the kind of text book answer all catholics give.
One should learn about Christ not by reading stories about him....but by experiencing him..talking with him and most importantly Listen to him....He is a God who wants an intimate relationship with you..bcoz he himself can talk and listen you all day long....
He himself can personally tell you what a verse means....you neednt go to a priest for that.For those who desire after him, he will never let them go hungry..
Well about this...
From Matthew 16:18-19: 18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19"I
will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind
on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on
earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
I dont believe it is the correct interpretation you are giving but yes thats what you were told anyway.The point is How can someone validate themselves from the same interpretation they themselves had made.I hope you are getting the point.
Anyway Leave all this... It doesnt matter...
Coz there are two things that can happen..
Either You are right or I am Right!!
So If you are right....then i dont think God is going to banish me to hell....just because I always prayed to him and never prayed to Mary.I am not dishonoring Mary...i just dont exalt her thats it.
And in the other case..
I think God is gracious and if you are eager for him .....thats all that matters.That is to have a relationship so intimate with God as he desired it.
You dont have anything against having relationship with Jesus..... Do you??
Well then lets try to come to agreement where both of us are pleased.That Jesus is such an adorable and awesome Loving God..
Praise the Lord For He never leaves us nor forsakes us...
Instead of all this....Can i request you to do something else...Can u please message me one of the most wonderful testimonies of How you felt the Love of Jesus in your life.That would be more valuable to me than anythign in the world...to see How God Loves his People...
Take Care...God Bless!!
hey checkout my blog....www.amazingtestimonies4christ.blogspot.com
@yahanvesh - One should learn about Christ not by reading stories about him....but by experiencing him..talking with him and most importantly Listen to him
This can't be so. It is not Scriptural and the Church does not teach such a thing. On one hand you say all doctrine must come from Scripture, then on the other you teach something that is not in Scripture.
Also, simple common sense says that what you say cannot be so. Everyone's experience is different. By your way of thinking, if the truth were based on personal experience then there would be the possibility of infinite number of truths.
If the Holy Spirit is truth and comes to all of us, well then there would be only one Church. But there is not. Because Protestants like you think that the truth is based on personal experience and that the Holy Spirit instructs the individual we have thousands of versions of Christianity. This is demonstrated by the thousands of Protestant denominations.
Clearly, you reject the teaching of Scripture which teaches unity and gives Christ's authority to the Church.
So in the end, you reject simple reality and the very Scripture you say is the source of your doctrine.
How can that be?