Wednesday, 09 December 2009
-
Can Atheists Go to Heaven?
Can atheists go to Heaven? This is an interesting question to ask Christians. You can ask atheists the same question, but since they do not accept the concept of 'Heaven', they would be at a loss to answer it, or they would say no, since there is no heaven, nobody can go to it anyway.So what do Christians think? Well one thing is certain: there is no general agreement on this matter. There are many who insist that only adherents to the faith can go to Heaven. For them, nonbelievers go to Hell. They do have dozens of quotes from the Bible to back up their case.
There are some Christians, though, who do not view things so strictly. Some believe that it would be unfair that somebody who has never heard of the Gospel would therefore automatically be excluded from Heaven. After all, that person then never had a chance to become a Christian, so should they be punished by having to go to Hell?
Some Christians and religious leaders will also argue that even members of other religions, in principle, could go to Heaven, just not automatically. It would be more difficult, they say; it would depend on the circumstances. What these circumstances are falls outside the scope of this blog post, but let's just say for now that believers in other religions are not necessarily excluded from Heaven. I am backing this up with a quote from 'Assessment of this Council', which refers to the 'Vatican II' council, and therefore official Roman Catholic doctrine: The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience'.
So there it is; if you seek God sincerely then it doesn't really matter whether you are a Christian or not. In fact, research has shown that large sections of the general public who believe in the concept of Heaven, think that "everybody will be judged by God and if you are found to have been 'good', you may well make it to Heaven". I'm at a loss how that would work for a 5-year old, or for a 'bad' person who was just about to repent but didn't have enough lifetime left, but I do not want to be flippant.
Atheists, of course do not believe in God. They do not 'seek God sincerely.' If they would arrive at that 'final judgment', they would obviously realize they were mistaken all along.
So, here's my question to you: do you think 'good' atheists might still go to Heaven?
What is your response to this question? Who do you think will be permitted into Heaven? Do you think there is any way we can know who exactly God will allow in?
RecommendRelated Posts
Post a Comment
- Back to revelife's Revelife Site!
- Note: your comment will appear in revelife's local time zone: GMT -05:00 (Eastern Standard - US, Canada)
About the Author
-
- From: hundredsongsinhundreddays@xanga
- About Me: Jan-Wouter Stigter and Miriam Cassar write their stories connected with the songs they post for the next hundred days.
Stats: This Week All Time Posts: 0 2 Views: 0 1980 Comments: 0 191 View all posts by hundredsongsinhundreddays@xanga
Comments (171)
they would obviously realize they were mistaken all along.
LOL.
Know exactly who? No. We're not the One Judge. Though, there is that whole profess Christ as Lord deal. I know I AM is completely just and loving. He is full of grace and a love that allows his creation to make choices. He knows his creation and he knows how to deal with the people who have "heard of him" and who haven't. When it comes to this, I don't try to put the Creator in a box. I just know I'm not making the call. I also know people who do his will are his children and belong to him.
Juggling works and faith is a difficult task for any theologian. There isn't a perfect answer except that The One Judge is just and he will decide whom he embraces and pushes away.
We can not know, therefor we should abstain from trying to decide and judge.
God: "Well, uh, yeah, welcome to Heaven. I'll, uh, try to make myself scarce."
@MissPixieGlitter@xanga - LOL IKR? Condescending much?
I have my own personal beliefs in Heaven and Hell (mainly that I'm starting to feel Hell might not exist), but I also take time to think about that I might be wrong instead of telling those who don't believe what I do that they're wrong. It's very insulting to designate whether or not non-believers (or non-Christians) will go to Heaven. I'm sure they don't care what we think will become of them.
I am not the judge, God is. I think that the problem with a lot of Christians is that we spend too much time judging others.
My understanding from engaging with scripture is that being saved through Christ is an ontological designation, not an epistemological one. That is, I believe some are saved through Christ without consciously realizing they are saved through Christ. This isn't merely a hope, but is (I think) a strong inference from a comprehensive reading of scripture.
Without getting too deep into it, consider that scripture explicitly lists some who were neither Christian nor Jew among those with "righteous faith," such as Job (a pre-Israelite pagan) and Melchizadek (a pagan warrior-king living during the time of Abraham). I think a reading of the book of Jonah (though it's clearly a satirical morality play) with this question in mind will also support the idea.
I would tack onto the passage of Mt. 25 with a passage from Paul, where he said that "when Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these... are a law unto themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God (through Jesus Christ) will judge the secret thoughts of all." So Paul makes that same distinction between perhaps being "excused" through Christ, even without consciously accepting Christ.
There are other similar passages that are strong enough to make it fair for Christians to "infer" that John 14:6 isn't the clearest word on the matter. It's not just a matter of Christians wanting the gospel to sound less mean (let's face it, the gospel will never be palatable in a liberal democracy), but a matter of Christians trying to fairly engage with all of scripture, which after all is a mosaic.
So could an atheist actually be saved? In my understanding and thinking, it's not implausible. I certainly have grounds for hope.
People who end up in Hell are there not because they did not know Christ. They are there because they are sinners. God is just to punish and to pardon whom He wills. However that pardon comes only via the Son. If a criminal goes to jail he does not tell others he is in there because he did not get a plea bargain or a pardon! He is there because of whatever crime he committed.
Christians are safe to proclaim this truth! To dull it down or avoid it when the question is asked openly is to be ashamed of the gospel.
Grace and peace!
~Michael
@SirNickDon@xanga - I wish I could rec comments sometimes.
what is your definition of a "good" or "bad" person? does it come down to a tally of sins? I believe that we all have the potential to be evil and that I am no "better" than a serial killer, really. In that case, I would challenge you to think about such a subjective word and how to not define it into a tangible box. don't get me wrong, it's a very complicated thing. also, I just wanted to point out that Atheism is a faith as well. Its faith in the lack of a God. so it's hardly that a person is neutral because they have not had the chance to experience God (which I think is impossible. God speaks in more ways than a Bible or missionaries. He speaks in nature, dreams and miracles). They have made a decision and have chosen to Unbelieve in God versus believe in God. Just some thoughts. Keep thinking & posting. It's great!
i'm not sure i agree with the Christian belief that original sin exists... no one has ever successfully explained to me why Adam and Eve sinning would cause all human beings to be born sinful automatically, as opposed to being willed by God. and if it was willed by God... well, that just makes him sadistic.
I think if a complex supernatural being really did create the universe, he wouldn't care if the ant-like beings on Earth were aware of his existence, let alone demand an unquestioning belief in it - and only in one specific belief system.
Sort of like being pissed when bacteria aren't aware of you viewing them through a microscope.
@SirNickDon@xanga - Romans 12. For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13. (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14. for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15. who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16. in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Nick! I beg you to re-read Romans! The whole point to those first 3-4 chapters is to show that NO man Jew or gentile can be saved apart from faith in Christ. Vs. 12 can not be set apart from the rest of the verses you quoted. And vs. 15 even states it is Mans thought that accuse or excuse. Not God.
Romans 3:9. What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10. As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11. there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God.
Your "inferrence" is a deadly one brother. It could lead people to never sharing the gospel or making salvation so open that Christ is only "one" of many ways to heaven.
Grace and peace!
~Michael
ps. Can you quote me any Christian leaders before the 1900's who hold to such views?
I just like to let the Bible speak for itself.
Yes, everyone goes to heaven. Hell does not exist.
Beautiful pic.
The way I see it is that if the God who inspired the scriptures is the God of heaven, and he took the time to place warnings in the scriptures (repeatedly) that tell us that Christ is the only way... then the answer is "no". Only those who are seeking Christ, have been adopted as the Children of God, and taken up the faith will enter heaven. The "what-if" questions that often arise are needless; ultimately God is the judge. Its not our place, nor our job to judge the non-believer.
Because we don't know much about heaven (seeing as how none of us have ever been there before) I'm forced to accept God's word on the matter.
@SirNickDon@xanga - I'm curious, When you say of Jonah "...it's clearly a satirical morality play" What do you mean? Do you believe Jonah was a real historical figure who made the first trip via biological submarine? Or is the whole of Jonah's story a "whale of a tale", but lacking in fact?
@MC_Shann@xanga - I said I didn't want to get too deep into this, but as soon as I submitted my comment and saw your comment right below mine, I knew that wasn't going to happen! I am so glad you're here to provide a counterbalance to my views.
This is an issue (unlike our ongoing Arminian-Reformed discussion) that I don't have a strong commitment to. It may well be that nobody who does not consciously accept Christ will be saved, and certainly there is no way to assume that any particular person is, so my zeal for missions and evangelism is no less than yours, I promise.
I definitely see how the language surrounded the passage I cited seems to qualify it, and I admit that I haven't done a thorough study of it, but my question to you would be what Paul does mean by vv. 13-15, and why they were included? My understanding of Paul's absolutist language ("absolutely none") is to describe the general state of man. If we take Paul's "alls" perfectly literally, we're forced to accept that all who sinned in Adam are made alive in Christ, which means that the universalists are right after all (Rom 5:11-13), which is Terry Talbot's exegesis of Romans (and one that C. S. Lewis never quite managed to shake off).
When we go outside of Romans, though, I think we find more reason to suppose that Paul's rhetoric was generalized. Acts 10, Acts 17 and 1 Tim 4:10 all seem to suggest that God might work outside explicit statements of faith in Christ.
As for church history, there's (of course) a lot of arguments. Some inclusivists try to claim every pre-Augustinian church father, but that's surely mistaken. In any event, Justin Martyr certainly agreed, as did (in later times) Ulrich Zwingli, Robert Barclay and John Wesley. Even the Westminster Catechism grants that infants are covered by God's grace, and says "So also are all other elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the word." Of course, I have my differences on the notion of election, but the point stands that the Westminster Catechism affirms that it is not an explicit affirmation of the saving work of Christ that makes one to be saved by Christ.
Finally, John Stott (post 1900, but a Reformed thinker I deeply respect) says, "I have never been able to conjure up (as some great Evangelical missionaries have) the appalling vision of the millions who are not only perishing but will inevitably perish. On the other hand… I am not and cannot be a universalist. Between these extremes I cherish and hope that the majority of the human race will be saved. And I have a solid biblical basis for this belief." I can't think of a better way to say it.
@Such_Were_You@xanga - I love love love the way you asked that question. I'm tempted to let the question stand for itself, since you phrased it so wonderfully. But suffice to say I come much closer to the second understanding.
No one knows who will be allowed into heaven but God. However, there are pretty straight forward guidelines listed in scripture that we must adhere to IF we seek admission into heaven. These guidlines are not given by men in some church doctrine, nor even by the Apostles, but by Jesus Christ Himself. We, as followers of Christ, get our authority from Christ Jesus, and Jesus got His authority direct from God the Father, so Jesus' words were not His own, but were the Father's words as given to Jesus to give to those who would listen and obey.
Given to those who would listen and obey; these are the ones, as outlined in scripture, who will ascend into heaven. These are the ones who believe in Jesus, accept His sacrafice, obey His words, die to self and live His life. These are driven, not by their own desire to please the Father, but by the Holy Spirit who dwells within them changing their thoughts to match those of Christ Jesus (who by-the-way, pleased the Father in ALL ways), so that they now have a natural desire to believe and obey. They believe EVERY WORD of the Holy Bible. They believe WITHOUT doubting. The manifestations of the power of the Holy Spirit of God are evident in their everyday life.
Jesus tells us that doing good, or living a good life WILL NOT get you into heaven; only those born again can see the kingdom, and only those Born of Water AND Spirit will enter the kingdom. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life we must live IF we seek admission into the kingdom. He is the key and the door.
So, will a nonbeliever be admitted into the kingdom? According to Christ Jesus; no. When Jesus comes everyone will have had a chance to chose. He is not coming now because He is waiting for the last one who will accept Him. Even if someone accepts Christ Jesus at the very last moment BEFORE He returns, he will be admitted (as is described by Jesus in parable). Once He returns, the door is locked and no one else is admitted (as Jesus describes in parable). Hence the urgency to repent and be Baptised as soon as possible, because no one knows the day or the hour of the King's return, not the Angels in heven, nor the Son of God, but ONLY God the Father knows these things. But those who have accepted Him, and are living for Him, and in Him, have the mind of Christ, and because they have the mind of Christ, all the mysteries of the kingdom will be revealed to them in accordance with His perfect will for them.
There will be no one left out. ALL will have herd of Him and will have been given a chance for eternal life. All who are mature enough to make a life changing decision will be baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Babies cannot make that decision, but will not be held accountable for not being baptised by water; after all, for nine months they were protected by water, and they were baptised by blood when they were born into this world. God has them covered. It's when we get older and our minds and hearts have been corrupted by the world and selfishness that we need redeeming.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - they opened a door of opportunity for the enemy of God to tempt every man, woman and child who came after them. Outside of Christ we have no strength to resist that temptation, and so men were caught in a never ending cycle of sin. Nothing that we could do was good enough to make us righteous enough to stand before the most perfect and sinless being in all eternity. Jesus broke the cycle by being the only man to live a sinless life, which is why when he accepted the sin of mankind, it carried so much weight with the Father. Jesus broke the cycle for our sake, and IF we follow His lead, we will also overcome by the power of His Spirit working in us and through us. Jesus, as a man, was tempted by EVERY temptation known to man, and He overcame them, as a man.
By grace do we qualify to be included in the Blood Covenant that was made between Father and Son, IF we accept His sacrafice. All of our past sins are washed away, and we are adopted into the Royal Family of the Kingdom of God. In boldness, now we may enter into the Holy of Holies and dwell in the presence of the King of Glory, without fear, but with much reverence and humilty because of who He is and what He has done.
God made man perfect, as He is perfect. He made man in His image, and His image was and is perfection. It was not Gods will for man to sin and be cast out of His presence. God made man to live in His presence for all eternity, which is why God was so grieved at mans fall. Our Father, like any good father, only wants the best for His children, and He will do everything for them; everything short of the one thing, which is that they must make the choice on their own to believe and obey. for every one step that man makes toward God, God takes ten steps toward man. The wayward son come home.
May the mysteries of the Kingdom of God be made known to all who seek His face, and accept His sacrafice, are Baptised and sanctified unto the King of Glory. In Jesus' name. Amen
@SirNickDon@xanga - So could an atheist actually be saved? In my understanding and thinking, it's not implausible. I certainly have grounds for hope.
An atheist is someone who willfully and with full knowledge denies the existence of God. For crying out loud, Nick, haven't you read the comments of atheists here?
They not only deny God but they do so with bellicose glee. Such people put themselves beyond redemption.
Words have meaning. A person who claims to be an atheist is begging for his own damnation.
Why did Peter weep bitterly after denying Christ? Why did Judas kill himself?
Because DENYING GOD BRINGS DAMNATION!
@mpwarren@xanga -
"they opened a door of opportunity for the
enemy of God to tempt every man, woman and child who came after them.
Outside of Christ we have no strength to resist that temptation, and so
men were caught in a never ending cycle of sin."
that makes no sense. if we're going to be punished for being sinful beings, that punishment should come AFTER we have made the conscious choice to... not pre-inflicted because God already knows what's going to happen.
also, the concept of original sin does not exist in Judaism, so clearly that is not the traditional understanding of what came about as a result of the Fall. it should also be noted that God SENT Adam and Eve away... they were not removed from Eden, and access to immortality, as a direct result of what they did. in other words, there was no cause/effect. it was a choice made by God that brought that about ultimately, not a choice by man.
and you still didn't answer my question at all. what role does acceptance have in salvation? if Jesus has already died and risen, have not all sins been expunged?
@Ex_Adyto_Cordis@xanga - But that is exactly what makes the whole "God loves me" so grand. Look at the cosmos, from where did they begin, and where is their ending? We are but a spot within a spot, within a spot, and as scripture tells us, He holds the universe within His hand. so how great is that? And yet, He seek our pleasure; He chose us from before the foundations of the earth to be His beloved. Why would He if He is so grand? Perhaps because we are His dimond in the rough. He gave to us that we are given the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and we are to tell all creation. His love is never ending, and His love is not contingent upon our love for Him. He made the Angels to serve us. None of the heavenly hosts may stand in His presence, save Christ Jesus and His bretheren (us). Why, because He loves us. Why does He love us that much after all that we have done against Him, and still do? Because His love is beyond human comprehension. We accept Him on faith, or not at all. It's our choice.
No No No one goews to heaven for the accepting Jesus and repenting. you do not you lose Jesus forever. Its justice that you afre forgiven or burn. Jesus died for the people who accaept him and the blood only covered the saved and the bllod does not cover athiest. Have a cousin I love and if he died tonight he would burn in hell forever for rejecting the truth. Jesus does not wish for this but God needs sin out and paid for. Jesus paid it and you must take this gift for heaven
@LoBornlyte@xanga - I'll defer to the Second Vatican council on this one: "Those also can attain to everlasting salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and, moved by grace, strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them by the dictates of their conscience."
We can quibble over whether there has ever been an atheist who sincerely sought God, but I believe that at the very least it is possible that there could be one. I don't assume that all atheists work out of "full knowledge." In fact, I don't think anyone does. We work out of the framework we have handed to us our genetics and environment.
Are most atheists saved? I don't assume so. But is it plausible for an atheist sometime somewhere to be saved? I can't escape the conclusion and don't wish to limit the bounds of God's salvation in Christ.