Friday, 04 December 2009
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Oh, Christmas Trees: Are They Biblical?
This is the first post I am writing in an attempt to defeat the misconceptions and arguments against Christmas. One of the most common arguments that I have come across is the idea that Jeremiah 10 talks about, and perhaps forbids, Christmas trees. Let's look at Jeremiah 10 and see what we can find. I know I usually use the ESV, but I am going to use the KJV this time, because that is the translation used in the arguments against Christmas.
Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
-- Jeremiah 10:1-7Now at first glance, this might look like a Christmas tree, with all the talk about silver and gold. However, is it really talking about a Christmas tree, or, for that matter, a tree of any type? Let's dissect a few of the verses and see if we can find out. Starting with verse 2:
"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them."
The first thing we have to pay attention to is always context. If verse 4 talks about Christmas trees, then verse 2 must also talk about Christmas trees, unless there is some sort of transition that would point us to a subject change. So look at verse 2, does it apply to Christmas trees? Do people who have Christmas trees pay attention to signs in Heaven? Do signs of Heaven have anything to do with Christmas trees and the practice of having one? My answer to all of the above is no. Let's continue to verse 3:
"For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe."
Now we are getting warm right? Surely this is the start of the talk on Christmas trees. But let's move on to verse 4 and see if we are continuing on the possible Christmas tree talk. Verse 4 is next:
"They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
Getting warmer, right? That sounds like a Christmas tree, doesn't it? So far, verses 3 and 4 have a slight chance of describing a Christmas tree. Will the trend continue? Before we go to verse 5, is there anything in 3 and 4 that gives us the idea that he is changing topics? If not, then verse 5 must be talking about the same thing as 3 and 4 right? Here is verse 5:
"They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."
Wait a minute! Something is wrong. When was the last time a Christmas tree talked? Verse 5 says it is speaks not; why is he talking about speaking, if we are talking about trees? The only time I know that a Christmas tree talks is when you have too much spiked eggnog. We don't usually think or believe or expect our Christmas tree to talk. This investigation is starting to get weird. The very next few words, makes it even weirder. because we are now carrying our Christmas tree, because it "cannot go." I am assuming that Jeremiah means on it's own. When was the last time you expected your Christmas tree to walk? When was the last time you carried your Christmas tree because it could not go?
Finally, the last part of 5, makes this whole investigation really weird. Now Jeremiah has entered the realm of the movies on Sci Fi channel. He is talking about not being afraid of this Christmas tree because it "cannot do evil," nor can it do good. Have you ever been afraid of your Christmas tree doing evil? Have you expected it to do good? So, for Jeremiah to be talking about Christmas tree, it would be a Christmas tree that is carried about because it cannot walk, it can't talk, and is not to be afraid of, because it can't do evil.
I have never expected a Christmas tree to walk, talk, or kill me in my sleep with a knife from the kitchen. It makes no sense whatsoever for Jeremiah to be discussing these things because these are not things that Christmas trees are expected to do. What makes more sense, though, is for Jeremiah to be discussing idols. Idols are supposed to be gods; gods are expected to walk, talk, and do evil or good. Christmas trees are not. The context of Jeremiah 10 makes no sense if these verses are Christmas trees.
So if Jeremiah 10 does not forbid Christmas trees, are they Biblical?
I think they are useless; they don't really add anything to the celebration of Jesus' birth. If Christmas is supposed to be about the birth of Jesus, Christmas trees add nothing more than looking nice. If you want something to put your gifts on or under, try a nice table, or manger scene. The only logical argument against Christmas trees I have heard is that Christmas trees are bad stewardship of resources. They are not a requirement to celebrate the birth of Christ, but we chop them down, put them in our house, and after we killed a good tree, we toss it in the trash and get a new one next year. What is the point?I do not believe the Bible forbids them, but I do not believe they are promoted by the Bible, or needed in order to celebrate Jesus. They are purely for show. Do we really need to kill a tree for show?
What has been your belief or practice on the tradition of the Christmas tree?
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- From: ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga
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- About Me: The name for this site was taken from a conversation where someone told me that all christians were crazy and were fruitcakes. I figured if he is correct then I am proud to be a christian fruitcake.
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Comments (80)
They are fine...we are worshiping Christ. We are not fooled into worshiping something other than Christ...let it be.
To me, Christmas trees are pretty, fun, decorative, and for children, they can be a teaching moment. We can remind them that Jesus died on a "tree" and that even though our tree will eventually die, death was not the end for Jesus.
I believe God loves it when we celebrate Him and enjoy the good things He's given us. I don't believe it always has to have a deep theological meaning. If He's at the center of our lives, then our celebrations please Him. Christmas trees are a way to enjoy time with our families and celebrate the years we've spent together as we use the ornaments we've collected.
I love Christmas trees.
That said, this is totally a disputable matter. If someone feels like Christmas trees are wrong, then by all means they should avoid them. I never want to pass judgment on something like that.
You final argument is a bigger question culture: "I do not believe the Bible forbids them, but I do not believe they are promoted by the Bible, or needed in order to celebrate Jesus. They are purely for show. Do we really need to kill a tree for show?"
A symphony isn't supported or denied in Scripture. It is purely for entertainment. Do we need to waste energy on all the lights, air-conditioning, and huge symphony halls?
Culture has a place. It is good thing. People need it. A Christmas tree is a wonderful way of getting families together when they otherwise might not. It's better than the TV.
It's nothing more than a Teutonic Fertility symbol but let my fellow Christians worship it if they need it.
@soy_esteban@xanga - Best argument for a Christmas tree I've ever heard. "It's better than the TV." I'm one of those guys who just always says "What's the point?" If there isn't reason for it I usually don't care much. That needs to change in me but... I like what you said.
There was an old Eastern Christian tradition about how Mary, Jesus and Joseph, while hiding from Herod's henchmen on the way to Egypt, hid in a forest of trees similar to fir trees, praying that God would save them. One of the fir trees, according to the story, opened up and they ran in, and the tree closed up so the henchmen could not find the family.
Food for thought.
@Pashe@xanga - Indeed? I know it has Germanic roots but as a fertility symbol? Where did you hear that?
In my grandfather's youth, many people would "skip" Sunday evening services to go to the movies. At that time, he resolved he would never go to a movie theater. However, he never applied this restriction to anyone else, even his wife or children. Similarly, he felt the same way about any "Christmas" celebration (for many of the reasons mentioned here). But he would never dream of forbidding or even discouraging a Chrsitmas celebration, he just wouldn't participate. He acted neither ashamed nor proud of his decisions to reject some cultural norms.
I would encourage any Christian to behave the same way. There is no sin in explaining or defending any restrictions you place on yourself - dietary, cultural, whatever. I think it can lead to sin when one starts trying to restrict others.
God bless!
Cool; I was just blogging about something like that here: Last I checked, God made trees. So isn't it terribly inconsistent to say that God's creation can only ever possibly be a pagan symbol?
However, it's a shame that Jeremiah didn't really have something to say on the subject of Christmas trees a thousand years before the first Christmas. That would have been impressive.
I believe your interpretation of this scripture is typical but incorrect. Even down to your comments about the tree "talking". That was more a statement against the pagan gods that were being worshiped at that time-- in other words Jeremiah was saying "your 'gods' do not speak, they are dead!".
I do agree, however, that the tree is not the focal point of this text. Its merely representative of the problem which was idolatry.
However, I've never heard anyone make this argument.
My problem is that the festival we call "Christmas" is actually, historically, taken from literal pagan worship and you can see it in every aspect of our day. Adorning a tree and laying presents under it were simply the ways they worshiped. Now, we've taken the festival, and then give those presents that are laid under the tree for a month or so to our family members.
However, the statement "you'll know the peoples god by who they spend their money on" is very true.
The Trend which I see, and the reason why I oppose Christmas, is how materialistic and selfish it has become. Families fight on Christmas day because of how stressful the whole ordeal is. Children complain because they didn't get what they wanted. Mothers and Fathers are stressed beyond comprehension because of the credit card debt they under take during the season.
And
Somewhere in this hustle and bustle what Christians claim the holiday represents-- Jesus Christ-- gets lost between the cracks. Most families do not wake up on Christmas morning and spend the morning in prayer and worship of their Lord and Savior (if you do, btw, I am greatful! That is a good thing).
So, in my opinion-- and that is what this is-- there are far more potent arguments against the materialistic and basically idolistic holiday that we slap the name of Jesus on. Even at that, the one listed above is not without credit. The verses in Jeremiah should make you stop and think, at least, about whether or not you've turned Christmas into a pagan ritual of selfishness.
@QuantumStorm@xanga - It started in Greece but it is also became Teutonic. I got the passage from here.
YGGDRASIL / IRMINSUL:
YggYggdrasil is the "World tree", a gigantic tree and central pillar that
binds connects binds the 9 worlds of the Universe together. Also know
as The name Yggdrasil translates as:
"terrible" +
drasil"steed". Yggr is another name of Odin, giving a meaning of "Odin's steed"
IrminsulYggdrasil was known as the
to the contenental
Christmas TreeGermanic tribes, and historically, was an oak or wooden pillar
venerated by the Saxons which was said to connect heaven and earth. The
name Irminsul is translated as "mighty Pillar"and is derived from
"IRMIN" the ancient contenental Saxon name for Odin (Old Norse:
Jörmunr). Thus it represents a cosmic balance, order, personal power,
spiritual creativity, growth, and hidden knowlage.
The ancient symbol of the cosmic tree Irminsul / Yggdrasil still continues to be widely
honoured up to modern times at Yuletide in the disguised and Christianized form
of the
The Christmas tree
Thedecorated pine stems from the worship of the god Attis. He is said to
have been a man who became a tree. This ancient theme of the
three-headed god in the tree is found as early as the Indus
civilisation in the end of the third millennia BC. The bringing in of the pine decked with violets and
woollen bands was like bringing in the May-tree or Summer-tree in
modern folk custom. The tree was originally decked with an effigy of the
god Attis, which was retained until the next year and then burnt. Pine
resin is also burnt at the solstice festivals.The original intent of the custom was to retain the spirit of vegetation intact.This is the origin of the Christmas tree and
decorations. The god Attis was replaced by the Sun symbol on the top of
the tree, and the effigies of Eros and the Sun, Moon and stars are
represented by the baubles, and the tinsel of today represents the
woollen bands.
@Pashe@xanga - What are their sources? Out of curiosity.
@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - "Last I checked, God made trees. So isn't it
terribly inconsistent to say that God's creation can only ever possibly
be a pagan symbol?"
God doesn't make fertility symbols, men do. Trees (and, more commonly, rabbits) can be used as fertility symbols by men.
"However, it's a shame that Jeremiah didn't really have something to say on the subject of Christmas trees a thousand years before the first Christmas. That would have been impressive."
However, it should raise the question of whether the practice of erecting a tree overlaid with precious metals is or is not a pagan practice that predates Christ's birth. The process he describes is a dead ringer for the Christmas tree custom practiced by many professing Christians today. But let's remember, Jeremiah was a prophet. Could he really resist leaving clues for us to find thousands of years later?
@QuantumStorm@xanga -
Sorry,
but ur gonna have to find those.
@CoG_Love - Can be, yes, but are they still today, always and for all time across all cultures? If I have a pet rabbit, is it only because of a pagan fertility symbol? Should I refuse to have a pet cat because the ancient Egyptians worshiped cats? Should I refuse to wear a red shirt because that color is symbolic of good fortune in ancient Chinese religion? The reasoning breaks down very quickly.
The "trees" Jeremiah refers to were ones that were carved into gold-plated idols in ancient Mesopotamia. Google some pictures of them and see how similar they are to Christmas trees (hint: not at all). Any connection to Christmas trees is eisegesis (reading into the text, rather than seeing what's there), plain and simple. Sorry.
I, for one, do not 'kill a tree for show'. The tree used is artificial. Nonetheless, the trees on the lots are usually from farms grown for that purpose ----- good for the economy and for proper stewardship of the land. Christmas trees are neither commanded nor forbidden. If they aid us in recalling the reason for the season, or in promoting that to the world, then why not??????
@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - You can own a rabbit, a cat, and a red shirt. It's only idolatrous to use them in worship against the commands of God (as is often done with trees). The practice of taking down trees and overlaying them with metals for worship is not new. Thank you for saying so.
It looks like you get the point, so why the strawman argument?
I'd get plastic one, chuck it in the corner throw some tinsel at it and use it again next year. It is not worshipped, It's just a tree for heaven's sakes.
it is the phallic symbol of nimrod. That is where it originates. Guess what the ornaments represent?
We live in a time where men are all doing what is right in their own eyes. What the above post is doing is justification, not dispelling.
If you want a tree, cut a tree, but don't claim it to be something solemn and holy. That just sends a clear message of ignorance and hypocrisy to those who know the facts about it. If you ever really want to reach people with the message of salvation, you have need to skim out the paganistic catholic assimilation that protestantism still clings to.
Its strangely funny how so manny believers fight for some things that mean nothing, a offends so many.
Does anyone worship their tree? Does anyone use their tree as a phallic symbol? I need to know!
As for me... I love having a tree at Christmas time. It warms the home along with all the other decorations. Nice warm and pleasant surroundings just make a person happier! I love the commercialization! I use it as a launching point for conversations about Christ. I love the madness of shopping! It's true! I love being around lots of people and people watching. I love all the Christmas movies!
And most importantly! I love the gift of Jesus Christ born in flesh to redeem sinners! make no mistake about it! Me and MY HOUSE will celebrate Him in this season!
Grace and peace!
~Michael
So while we are arguing about the tree, can we also discuss how the date corresponds with celebrations of various pagan gods also? Then we can end all these various Christian/Pagan discussions in one post.
They smell nice.
@Pashe@xanga - Yeah well so far the closest I've found are the articles that were linked by wikipedia (i.e. the sources used), and the oldest evidence of the traditions date back to the 16th century as a Christian tradition out in Germany (hence the teutonic thing). Whether it relates to old teutonic fertility symbol, however, is disputed at best.
@TheGiantSlayer@xanga - This is interesting. Where did you hear this? (That the tree was a phallic symbol of nimrod)
@CoG_Love - Can you show where people are worshipping the trees, though?