Saturday, 28 November 2009
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Paying Attention to the Signs: Who Do We Obey?
In May of '99, the retail building that the church I attend was meeting in caught on fire and burned to the ground. We built an "educational" building for our church run school in 2001, and started working with the county to build a much bigger sanctuary. After 8 years of going back and forth, we finally got permission to start building. One of the things we had to agree to do, in order to get our permits, was to agree to build a sidewalk, rain drainage, and curb near the church. To accomplish this, we had to block off one lane of the major road, that runs near the church and one lane of the much less traveled road that runs on the other side of the church. So I have volunteered a couple times to direct traffic; as I have no experience in doing such a thing, I am directing traffic on the less traveled road. Friday when I did this, I had a few angry drivers that were upset when I had to flip the side over to stop and tell them to wait, so we could let other cars go. But today, I was standing, holding the sign, displaying "slow" as I waved the orange flag towards the lane that I needed the car to go down. When I first started, I was shown how to hold and use the flag, and so I had been using it the way I was told, and 99.9% of the drivers knew what I was asking them to do, which was drive down the left hand lane or the "on coming " traffic lane, so that we could do the work that was needed on the right lane. But this one lady, driving in one of those old "boat" cars, if you are familiar with that term, saw the slow sign, and me waving her towards the right lane -- we made eye contact, so I know she saw me, right before she drove straight down the right lane, causing one of our workers to jump out of the way.
I have no idea where the confusion took place; maybe she decided she knew better than I did, and was just not going into the "on coming" traffic lane. But her actions could have been dangerous, if our worker did not jump out of the way, or if the bobcat that was picking up gravel to dump backed into her car, as it was not supposed to be there.
As I stood there the rest of my shift, I was thinking, about how often do we do that with God. How often as people do we make eye contact with God, as He is waving us down the narrow path, and we just decide to gun our motor and go down the wide path instead.
Who knows, maybe for some of us, we are reading the wrong sign. Maybe for some of us, we see God holding the "stop" sign, and we see someone else holding a slow sign, and decide to obey that sign instead of the one that God is holding.
How do we know that we are reading the right sign? The Bible in 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is profitable for correction, for reproof, for teaching, and for training in righteousness. Some translations says that scripture is God Breathed, meaning God inspired and breathed the words into the minds of the writers of scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that tradition or habit is God Breathed. Only the Bible is said to be God Breathed. Now, if God wanted to come down and tell me to do something, there is a strong chance that I will do it. Unless of course it directly contradicts the Bible; if it does, then I may have to wonder if it was really God telling me to do it.
Paul, in Acts 17 goes to the area of the Bereans, after leaving Thessalonica. He preaches the gospel, and they react by running to the scriptures available to them and making sure that what Paul is saying is real. For this action they are commended by Paul.
This is how we can tell that we are on the right path, and paying attention to the right road signs. If we want to do something, or someone is telling us a doctrine or a belief, we need to run to the Bible and check it out. If it is not in the Bible, then we have no basis to belief it.
What if it just sounds good or right? The Bible says that there is a way that seems right to a man, it leads to death. Ever hear the phrase,"sounds too good to be true"? Just because it sounds good, does not make it right or wrong, we have to go to God in prayer, and read His God Breathed word to make sure that what we believe or heard is in there.
Is the Bible, the one road sign that we need to listen and follow, or are there other road signs that we can read and stay on the narrow road?
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- From: ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga
- Name: ProudToBeAChristianFruitc
- About Me: The name for this site was taken from a conversation where someone told me that all christians were crazy and were fruitcakes. I figured if he is correct then I am proud to be a christian fruitcake.
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Comments (22)
That poor lady. So confused.
Even the Bible can (and often is) not understood by man-- the Bible is simply our foundation, something that we should rely on daily. But the Bible in the hands of someone that does not have God's Holy Spirit is equally dangerous and often times leads to death as well (sometimes even murder!).
We learn to recognize God's signs while praying and meditating on his Word.
But I do not believe that the Bible is "The One Road sign"; there are many things that God will try to tell us to do and the answer is not in the scriptures. The scriptures will obviously guide our decision, but the Scriptures did not tell me to come all the way down to Louisiana to minister. Through prayer I listened and obeyed. I used the scriptures to evaluate the kind of situation that was down here and what kind of challenges I would face, but prayer was actually the primary factor involved.
Even the devil knows the Bible--and mis-interprets it.
We were also given a conscience--which can become seared if we are not careful.
@deepestrecesses - Are you saying that the Bible is incomplete?
@WLCALUM@xanga - Our conscience can be a terrible guide. The Bible is the only perfect instrument we have to work with.
@ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga - True.
@deepestrecesses - Are you talking about things in areas not frowned upon in Scripture (like responsible drinking among adults) or tragedies and periods in which individuals have to cope with the loss of loved ones (Job, for example) or other?
@ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga - Absolutely not! hahaha. The Bible is complete with all God intended for it to contain. There is neither lacking nor error in the scriptures, but instead a vast knowledge God intended for us to understand and live by.
What I am saying, however, even the scriptures themselves point to-- God has given us a "helper" which has come and is to teach us many things, and guide us in the narrow way that we should go.
Far too many times I have seen Christians that pray to God and they ask for a sign, then they open their Bibles up, and they go "Find" the sign they're looking for. This requires, unfortunately, taking the scriptures out of context most of the time.
I used the example of the area I am now ministering in. I could have found any number of scriptures that would have told me not to come down here, and any number that would have told me to come down here, if I had wanted to twist them to say such a thing. But the reality is the Word does not actually say "David, go to Louisiana".
What I did do, however, is to apply the spiritual disciplines that I have been taught from the scriptures to my situation; having learned prayer, patience, and discernment I took my time and was aware of how I was being directed.
Do you see what I am saying? The scriptures contain many things useful for all kinds of Godly instruction-- when applied they contain instructions that teach us to discern the scenarios and situations in life that confront us. But they themselves do not answer our every situation.
For this reason I think it's necessary to place our faith and our trust in God and use those things that we have learned from his word to discern what the Spirit is guiding us to do.
@WLCALUM@xanga - The post was talking about "signs"-- I assumed this to mean regarding "decisions" or "directions" that we have before us. If the post was talking about Moral situations (such as "should I have sex with my really hot girlfriend") then, no- the Word of God is quite clear on that. You may accept or reject it (for now), but it's still clear.
So yes, I'm talking about things that are not specifically mentioned in the scriptures.
You might read my response to the person above clarifying what I meant. As I mentioned in that response, there are things not specifically mentioned in the Bible which we will deal with- ex) what college should I go to. Should I Marry this girl. Should I take this job. Should I buy a new-used car or put more money into repairing this one, etc. All these things have an impact on our lives and the course we will go, but are not mentioned specifically in the scriptures.
Again, as mentioned above, using the spiritual instruction and disciplines that I've learned from the scriptures, and becoming devoted in prayer, I then learn how to discern the signs that God sends my way regarding these kinds of things.
That was what I meant.
Are you talking about things in areas not
frowned upon in Scripture (like responsible drinking among adults) or
tragedies and periods in which individuals have to cope with the loss
of loved ones (Job, for example) or other?
@deepestrecesses - Gotcha. Thanks.
There are many seeming contradictions in the Bible but imagine this. You are standing at a crossroad and someone approaching from the east asks you which way to turn to get to town. You answer "hang a left" and someone records your answer. Later someone approaches from the west and asks you which way to turn to get to town. You answer "hang a right" and someone else records your answer. Both answers are correct but later, not knowing the circumstances of the two travelers someone reading both answers is easily confused.
"Seek and ye shall find" is a most important edict by which to live every moment. "Man, know thyself" is not the goal but the first step to being someone who can suggest to someone else which road to take. Without truly knowing oneself, pointing out the way to someone else is like throwing darts at a map while blindfolded. There is a an expression to describe this..."The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
In Jeremiah 6:15,16
Perhaps you have answered your question within your question. How do you define the "narrow road"?
@deepestrecesses - "But the reality is the Word does not actually say "David, go to Louisiana."
Maybe not in those exact words, but there are plenty of verses that can be used to guide you between staying and going.
For instance, we can use in context verses like Proverbs 6 where it is talking about work, and the verse from Paul that talks about he who does not work, shall not eat. and we can come to the conclusion, that whatever you do, go to louisiana or stay, God wants you to work doing something.
So we know God wants us to work, and we know from the Great Commission, that all christians are supposed to go out and witness, but where? what job?
Verses like the one in 1 Timothy 5, that says that a man who does not provide for his family, is worse than a heathen. So if the job, does not pay enough to pay the bills, and you currently are able to pay the bills, then maybe it is better if you stay with the job that supports you.
those are some of the verses, that can help someone narrow down your choices. If all of your choices, meet all of the verses, then quit worrying and just pick one. I think as a whole, we spend way too much time stressing over which one is God's will, and not enough time actually doing God's will.
Considering the bible's errancy and factual blunders, amongst it's many moral and ethical atrocities, no, you shouldn't use it as an exclusive sign.
We've come a long way in the last few thousand years.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - It's not just misinterpretation. We could interpret Green Eggs and Ham to be true if we really wanted to. In your example, the knowledge that the two people are from difference places negates their answers being contradictory. With the bible, a better example would be two people living in the same house telling you different ways to get to the town. Often, the text is just plainly wrong.
As science reveals the universe as it really is, every culture has to interpret its own ancient texts more vaguely and liberally. I've always been one to point out that the more you have to stretch interpretation of a text for it to be true, the less likely it is to be true.
@When_We_Were_Both_Cats@xanga -
"It's not just misinterpretation. We could interpret Green Eggs and Ham to be true if we really wanted to."Green Eggs and Ham is not true? :(
I didn't mean the two answers were in reality contradictory. The person or persons reading the two answers do not have the knowledge of where the people were coming from. I should have made that clear. Anyway you've gotten the point.
As for science vs religion/ancient texts, one of the many fascinating things to me is that true Buddhism, the Buddhism illuminated by Nichiren Daishonin and science do not contradict each other even when quantum physics are brought into the mix. True Buddhism also explains every aspect of human nature and the environment flawlessly down to the most subtle detail.
@ProudToBeAChristianFruitcake@xanga - I understand what you're saying. Whether to work or not to work has never been the issue. The verses you speak about give us moral guidance; essentially what was being spoken against in such a verse was a man who refused to work because of laziness.
However, again, I maintain what I said before. I had many offers as to where to go, even many that would pay better than this place.
But I do disagree with your logic. You just explained to me that someone should take a position in ministry based upon what pays and provides best for his or her family. Money should never be the concern for the Christian when going into a place. IF the position can pay the bills, then wonderful. IF NOT, then the Christian needs to find a 2nd job to work at and fill the missing financial obligations.
Using your own method of deciding; the scriptures show us that "the Rich man" (btw, he would have had a family) was told to sell everything he had and follow Jesus. The Lord was not about to pay this man. There was no financial stability in that move. Perhaps that man thought as you do because he did not go with the Lord.
Or another.
The man who would not leave his dead father. The Scriptures themselves say that you should bury (properly) the dead (that is an OT commandment, actually). Yet Jesus was saying "let the dead care for the dead".
God has placed commands in the scriptures, often times for our well-being. But God NEVER intended those to be bindings upon us that would prevent us from doing, or going, where he then tells us to go later.
I could go on about how the Prophets and the Apostles were many times doing things, despite financial stability for them and their families, that God told them to do.
If your suggestion, then, is to misuse scriptures such as the ones you just did to try and decide where to God, then you fall into the category that I originally addressed; those who take the scriptures out of context and try to say that God is using them to tell them where to go.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - There are many seeming contradictions in the
Bible but imagine this. You are standing at a crossroad and someone
approaching from the east asks you which way to turn to get to town.
You answer "hang a left" and someone records your answer. Later someone
approaches from the west and asks you which way to turn to get to town.
You answer "hang a right" and someone else records your answer. Both
answers are correct but later, not knowing the circumstances of the two
travelers someone reading both answers is easily confused.
cute story.
@subSacred@xanga - meh...just a metaphorical analogy.
@TheSutraDude@xanga - but a good one.
@subSacred@xanga - Oh good. I come through every now and then. Your comments are always good. I'm always happy to read them. I guess I should have said that more often but I'll take this opportunity to do so.
@deepestrecesses - I used a verse to say that the Bible promotes supporting one's family. The verse said that if a man does not take care of his family, he is worse than a heathen. Nowhere did i say that money should be one's only concern.
The rich young ruler's problem was not that he was rich, it was that He loved being rich. Supporting your family, or taking a job because it pays the bills, is not the same as loving money. it is being responsible.
I still maintain, and you will not be able to convince me otherwise, that someone should never take a job, that can't pay the bills. now, you may need to cut down on bills or expenses, to help the job meet your needs, but I do not think that God would ask you to take a job that requires you to go on the government dole, in order to minister in His name.