Last year my friend asked me what I thought about celebrating Thanksgiving (because I tend to not celebrate American holidays). He asked me if Christians can justify celebrating the oppression and killings of the Native Americans and if that is what Thanksgiving is still centered around (that is, the establishing of the U.S.)
We all know how the United States were established. We all know it is false to say that a group of righteous Christians happily sailed victoriously away from England to the U.S., made friends with the natives and prospered while sharing harmonious relationships with the Native Americans. No, we know that the U.S. was largely prosperous due to oppression and injustice (and tobacco I suppose). We know the lessons we learned as children are not wholly true but skewed.
In light of this, I think most people look upon Thanksgiving as a day to focus on various blessings and not as much on the founding of the U.S.
It has become a nice day of reflection as opposed to a second Fourth of July. I think the holiday has evolved as the nation has grown older and thus further away from it’s past to a point where we can collectively look back and say “that wasn’t entirely moral.”
Do you celebrate the founding of the U.S., various blessings, or both on Thanksgiving?
What do you think the majority of U.S. citizens use the holiday to celebrate?
Do you think Christians should/can celebrate the way in which the U.S. was established (and continues to grow in power)?
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Comments (83)
I celebrate the chance to get paid to sit at home and eat good food. Thanksgiving and Christmas are fairly meaningless holidays. It's a chance to hang out with family and eat.
we know that the U.S. was largely prosperous due to oppression and injustice (and tobacco I suppose).
That the pilgrims came to America to flee the tyranny of the English Crown is beyond question. That they tried socialism (communal living) and barely ecked out a living is beyond question. That they broke up the commune so that each family could have its own land is beyond question.
That it was private ownership of property that lead to bounty and prosperity is beyond question.
Everything that lead to America's first thanksgiving is beyond question except by those who have had their minds killed by leftist God and America-hating propaganda.
How could oppressing the Indians have anything to do with the colonists' prosperity anyway? Simple reason exposes the above quote as just another,
GreatBout of diarrhea.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - How could oppressing the Indians have
anything to do with the colonists' prosperity anyway?
Gee, yeah. It is impossible to gain prosperity for yourself through oppressing others. You are not serious, are you?
Everything that lead to America's first
thanksgiving is beyond question except by those who have had their
minds killed by leftist God and America-hating propaganda
...and those of us who know how to read, do math, recognize simple shapes, and comprehend historical facts.
I have always thought of Thanksgiving as the creation myth for the American civil religion.
Here is the first paragraph of that God-forsaken deist George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation:
WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houfes of Congress have, by their joint committee, requefted me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to eftablifh a form of government for their safety and happiness:"
Our Founders not only felt that all nations should acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, but that it was their DUTY to do so!
America became great because of the relationship its Founders established with God Almighty.
It is recommended that everyone read all of George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation, especially woefully ignorant people like the OP.
@subSacred@xanga - ...and those of us who know how to read, do math, recognize simple shapes, and comprehend historical facts.
You have not learned the facts of history. You have learned leftist lies. Read George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation. And simply compare the later societies of North and South. The oppressive South was much less prosperous than the capitalist, free market North.
All thinking people know that oppression is counter productive. It is impossible for a nation to become as great and as prosperous as America if its society is based on oppression.
The prosperity of the early colonists resulted from their own industriousness. And the principle of prosperity resulting from industriousness is a very Christian Puritan, American value.
Actual American history puts the lie to what you think are facts. America became great because the Founders forged a relationship between God and the country they designed, America The Beautiful.
@SirNickDon@xanga - I have always thought of Thanksgiving as the creation myth for the American civil religion
Thanksgiving was created by an act of Congress. You America hating leftists need to study a little actual history instead of farting around with creation myths.
Here is a link to George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - I wasn't thinking so much of the federal holiday status as the idea of kids going to school, drawing a turkey based on an outline of their hand and a "pilgrim hat" or an "Indian headdress" while their teacher tells them The Story of the First Thanksgiving.
I actually think very highly of America and American values. I just choose not to worship America.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - Oh yes, the Thanksgiving Proclamation says it all. Not really. There is much more to American history than a few paragraphs. You say I have learned leftist lies, I say you have fallen for right wing lies.
All throughout history kingdoms and rulers have become great and prosperous through the oppression of others. Eventually it comes back to bite them in the ass, but it can go on for long periods of time before this happens.
@Pcgecko85@xanga - It's interesting that most holidays get reduced to "family time."
I'm confused. Was George Washington at the first Thanksgiving? Is that why we're being ordered to read his stuff?
@SirNickDon@xanga - I wasn't thinking so much of the federal holiday status as the idea of kids going to school, drawing a turkey based on an outline of their hand and a "pilgrim hat" or an "Indian headdress" while their teacher tells them The Story of the First Thanksgiving.
That's exactly the problem. We were not taught the reality of the Founders forging a relationship between their new nation and the Creator. We were taught a Godless myth.
That's why all you leftist folks think like you do. What you think is based on myths from childhood.
@subSacred@xanga - Oh yes, the Thanksgiving Proclamation says it all. Not really. There is much more to American history than a few paragraphs
Not really? Now you are simply denying the facts. Leftist lies about America only work if people somehow force themselves into a state of denial. Denial is a psychopathology not a means of learning or reasoning.
What is said in George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation is enough to debunk the GreatBout of Diarrhea's assertion that American prosperity comes from oppression.
By forging a special relationship between America and the Creator, the Founding Fathers ordered American society to life, liberty and happiness. All these are the fountainhead of American prosperity, not oppression.
@subSacred@xanga - All throughout history kingdoms and rulers have become great and prosperous through the oppression of others. Eventually it comes back to bite them in the ass, but it can go on for long periods of time before this happens.
America became great not because of its rulers but because of its people. It is the great people of America that makes America work or not work. Even the poor in America are rich by world standards.
And rulers? Who rules in America? Who has ever ruled in America.
You just continue spouting leftist non-sense.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - I'm curious. How do you feel about the fact that the Founders (whether you mean the Puritans or the signers of the Declaration) were all heretics from a Roman Catholic perspective?
@SirNickDon@xanga - How do you feel about the fact that the Founders (whether you mean the Puritans or the signers of the Declaration) were all heretics from a Roman Catholic perspective?
I feel great shame that Catholics were left in the past and that the best innovation in human history (the creation of America) was performed by Protestants.
But like the Tower of Babel humbled the arrogant, the Reformation greatly humbled the Catholic establishment.
I am not like a leftist. I am intellectually honest and recognize truth and good works when I see them. And unlike the leftist, the truth comes before whatever personal agenda I might have.
@gene546@xanga - As longest God is not involved directly in this supposedly holyday; I believed we’re celebrating a secular invention from the Founding Fathers.” Gene546
But according the Founders, the entire purpose of Thankgiving is for the entire nation to join in prayers of thanksgiving to God Almighty. Go here to see George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation.
After reading Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation, I am sure that you now realize that your belief that Thanksgiving was a secular invention of the Founding Fathers is completely erroneous.
America without God is not America anymore.
@LoBornlyte@xanga -
I agreed with you that this holyday was declared as such to thanks God almighty. My objection is that our founding father was a Mason; and if you ever visited Washington DC, there is a Masonic building dedicated to his memory. Now, the Masonic principles are totally different from that of Christians’. For the God of the Masonic are a designer of the universe, and not a Creator of it. Added to this, Christ, our Savior, is acknowledge as a “wise” man amongst the many sage men of humanity and his redemption sacrifice is taken as a symbolic act for His followers. That it’s the reason I called secular our Holyday, for Masons despised everything that we consider “holy.” Gene546
@gene546 - In the words of George Washington:
NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and affign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of thefe States to the fervice of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be...
Who cares whether he was a Mason or not? What he says is true.
By your logic I'd have to disagree with everything every Protestant ever said just because I'm Catholic.
@LoBornlyte@xanga - "
I am not like a leftist. I am
intellectually honest and recognize truth and good works when I see
them. And unlike the leftist, the truth comes before whatever
personal agenda I might have."
Yah until the truth disagrees w/ u. Then u get into a huff and go downhill from there. I don't know why u are basing your argument on one proclamation from George Washington when you should be using original source material from the original settlers and the Wampanoag. George Washington's proclamation is what it is. But it is not a good foundational argument when you can find better source material than what you are saying. Look for it.
p
@Pashe@xanga - But it is not a good foundational argument when you can find better source material than what you are saying. Look for it.
The Proclaimation is in Washington's own hand. So indeed it is source material. As a leftist all you can do is deny the facts that stare you right in the face: America is a good and Godly nation, founded by good and Godly men.
Thanksgiving is a national holiday called in order that all Americans might pray to God Almighty who is the source of human rights and all that is good. The good and Godly Founders of America, the greatest nation in history, made it so with an act of Congress and a proclaimation from the President of the United States.
@LoBornlyte@xanga -
"The Proclaimation is in Washington's own hand. So indeed it is source material."
I never said it wasn't. But the problem is it's not original source material. You want to paint this Thanksgiving thing as something it never was. Washington, great that he was has nothing to do with the original understanding of Thanksgiving and you know that. That's why you are sticking only to George Washington's proclamation and nothing else.
Here is the rest of the story you are leaving out.
"In keeping with the strange sequence of unlikely events, Samoset, a Pemaquid (Abenaki)
sachem from Maine hunting in Massachusetts, came across the growing
disaster at Plymouth. Having acquired some English from contact with
English fishermen and the short-lived colony at the mouth of the
Kennebec River in 1607, he walked into Plymouth in March and startled
the Pilgrims with "Hello Englishmen." Samoset stayed the night
surveying the situation and left the next morning. He soon returned
with Squanto. Until he succumbed to sickness and joined his people in
1622, Squanto devoted himself to helping the Pilgrims who were now
living at the site of his old village. Whatever his motivations, with
great kindness and patience, he taught the English the skills they
needed to survive, and in so doing, assured the destruction of his own
people.
Although Samoset appears to have been more important in establishing
the initial relations, Squanto also served as an intermediary between
the Pilgrims and Massasoit, the Grand sachem of the Wampanoag (actual
name Woosamaquin or "Yellow Feather"). For the Wampanoag, the ten years
previous to the arrival of the Pilgrims had been the worst of times
beyond all imagination. Micmac war parties had swept down from the
north after they had defeated the Penobscot during the Tarrateen War
(1607-15), while at the same time the Pequot had invaded southern New
England from the northwest and occupied eastern Connecticut. By far the
worst event had been the three epidemics which killed 75% of the
Wampanoag. In the aftermath of this disaster, the Narragansett, who had
suffered relatively little because of their isolated villages on the
islands of Narragansett Bay, had emerged as the most powerful tribe in
the area and forced the weakened Wampanoag to pay them tribute."
I got that from here.
Thanksgiving is about receiving mercy and grace from people. That's ultimately all it was intended to be but to make it more culturally appealing others like yourself like to deny how bloody America's story really is.
p
@LoBornlyte@xanga - I believe the point of this entire post was to find out why and how people celebrate the holiday TODAY, not how they did when America was founded. Today, America is a whole lot less serving of God and a whole lot more enslaved in commercialism.
And, Gene546, big props to you for mentioning the Masons. Because nobody ever wants to talk about how corrupt they are....