Okay. So I have been noticing a lot of blogs by atheists lately having to do with the Christian view of sex. They seem to have this notion that Christians are really prudish about this particular topic. Well, for one thing, nowadays one cannot put any label on any group, because there are so many variations within each group. Christianity, unfortunately, is no different.
Today, I thought I would just give a rundown on what the Bible actually says about sex, and let the reader take it from there. The trend today in America seems to be if you don't like what the Bible says, just rewrite it and change that part. Blame it on translation, or someone or some group from the past, or whatever. From my standpoint, if God is going to give us His Word, He will see to it there is at least one version that is inerrant. After all, Jesus did say to go into all the world and tell every tonge, He didn't say to teach them Hebrew and Greek, He said to tell every tongue. If the Holy Spirit can write it through man, I think the Holy Spirit stuck around to keep it pure. But I digress.
First off, it seems there is this notion that Christians think sex should only be done to procreate, and not for pleasure. Well, when God came to tell Abram that he would have a son, Isaac, the first thing his wife said was, "Shall I have *pleasure*?" Because these two were in their NINETIES!
Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old
shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
And in Proverbs it says to enjoy your wife:
Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. 19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
And then there is the Song of Solomon, which is pretty steamy all the way through:
1:2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
2:5 Stay me with flagons, comfort me with apples: for I am sick of love. 6 His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me.
2:16 My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies. 17 Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether.
4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead. 2 Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them. 3 Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate within thy locks. 4 Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men. 5 Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies. 6 Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, I will get me to the mountain of myrrh, and to the hill of frankincense.
So, it doesn't seem to me that
they thought of it that way.
Secondly, there seems to be the idea that Christians only are allowed to have sex "missionary" position. Paul said that as long as you are married, you cannot defile yourselves.
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in
all, and
the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
So, this is wrong too. Along with the notion that the Bible teaches that sex is really dirty. We have seen it referred to as pleasure, and unable to be defiled as long as it is within the bonds of marriage, so how is this portrayal of sex dirty?
Next there seems to be this predominant theory that rape is condoned. I suppose this would make Christianity seem barbaric indeed, so this notion makes some atheists very happy to promote. But, it is wrong. In the Law it says that if a woman is raped, the rapist should die:
Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
There are only three cases of rape portrayed in the Bible. The first one is Dinah. She is the sister of the twelve brothers who become the twelve tribes of Israel. The rapist actually has the nerve to ask her brothers if he can now marry her. They tell him he and the whole town must be circumcised before they can allow it. So, they wait until the third day when all the men are sore from circumcision, and kill them all! (Genesis, chapter 34.)
The second one is a woman who is not named, a concubine, who went to another town , where her father lived, and was cheating on her husband. After four months, he comes to take her home, and they stop in a town to sleep. They would have slept in the street, but it must have been a rough town, because an old man compels them to sleep in his house. That night, just like in Sodom, some men of the town surround the house and tell them to send out the
man, so they can rape
him. The old man offers his daughter, and the man's concubine, just like Lot did, but they say, no they want the man. They keep it up, and so the old man gives them the concubine, and they rape her all night long! She dies on the doorstep as the sun comes up. They raped her to death! Well, the husband cuts her body up into twelve pieces and sends it to " all the coasts of Israel." And this starts a whole war! (Judges, chapters 19 and 20.)
The third is a girl named Tamar, and it is incest, a half brother raping his half sister, (both children of King David) and her other brother kills him for it. (II Samuel chapter 13.)
So, we have one man killed for it, one town of men killed over it, and a whole war begun over it. Rape is definitely not represented as 'condoned' I would say.
Of course, most people are aware of the verses which forbid homosexual sex. (Lev. 18:22, 20:13, Romans 1:26, 27, I Cor 6:9, I Tim. 1:10) Atheists sometimes try to use this as a means of representing Christianity as a hate religion, but if any verses that one could point to to try to say that actually meant that, then Christianity also hates adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, and any other sinner. This just is not so. Granted, some people who are filled with hate try to justify that through the Bible, but the Bible itself does not really give off that notion. It just says that certain things are sinful. Period. If you are guilty of one sin, you are guilty of all, (James 2:10) no longer perfect, and need redemption. Homosexual sex happens to be one of those sins, according to the Bible.
In conclusion, a.) there is nothing in the Bible that says you are not allowed to enjoy sex, b.) there is nothing in the Bible that says married people can only have sex if they are trying to make a baby, c.) nowhere in the Bible does it give the impression that sex is a dirty thing, d.) there is no condoning of rape in any examples in the Bible, e.) there is nothing in the Bible that says God hates homosexuals. Please quit trying to say it does!
What is your reaction to this? What do you think are other misconceptions about Christians and sex?
Comments (86)
Thanks for addressing this issue. It's certainly one that needed to be.
One suggestion.... I realized that if I reposted this anywhere else I'd have people mad at me for the photo at the top. It's pretty suggestive, and it's the kind of thing that could give us guys a hard time.Maybe something to consider changing next time?
I am just curious since this topic is about sex and the bible. Why do you think the bible is so against women having sex during there period when there hormones are at there peak and they are TOTALLY turned on physically and mentally???
I have a sneaking suspicion that it has to do with some kind of twisted and demented control issue because women at this particular time are the most vulnerable to be able to totally fall in love and have the best sex of there lives.
I am seriously not trying to be a smart ass or a pain in the ass this time SERIOUSLY I am not. I just want to get you people's point of view on this because this is the particular time when I have had women totally fall in love and literally go into an uncontrollable state of passion and pleasure that is absolutely indescribable.
@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - I think it had to do with the bleeding. Blood was considered unclean in the Old Testament so, when a women menstruated, she had to go through a purification ritual. So, if a man had sex with a woman during her period, he would have been considered "contaminated."
@quicksandbuddy@xanga - Yes your right they had a specific ritual that needed to be performed in Leviticus. Thank you for the comment. I guess I am trying to see the psychology behind the mechanical processes of the ritual. I mean besides any kind of blood and disease issue the only thing that I could possible see would be a control issue.
I would think it was way out of place for priests to get this involved with the sex lives of other men's wives that is why I blame it on control and manipulation but I appreciate your comment and all the comments I could get. Thank You very much!
you're pretty selective with your verses on rape.... care to explain the rest?
14Moses became angry with the army commanders
15and said, " I can't believe you let the women live!
16They
17are the ones who followed Balaam's advice and invited our people to
worship the god Baal Peor. That's why the LORD punished us by killing
so many of our people.
You must put to death every boy and all the women who have ever had sex.
18But do not kill the young women who have never had sex. You may keep them for yourselves." (Numbers 31)
also, this one is right before the verse you selected... how convenient of you to ignore it:
23-24If a man is caught
]="">[d]in town having sex with an engaged woman who isn't screaming for help,
they both must be put to death. The man is guilty of having sex with a
married woman.
And the woman is guilty because she didn't call for help, even though she was inside a town and people were nearby. (Deuteronomy 22)
apparently, it's only rape if the woman screams loud enough for someone to hear.
not to mention...
30" Sisera and his troops
are finding treasures
to bring back--
a woman, or maybe two,
for each man,
and beautiful dresses
for those women to wear." (Judges 5)
thumbs up.
@Garishi@xanga - The original had no photo. The photo is courtesy of Revlife. But I don't think it shows more than you would see on a day at the beach.
@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - I will h ave to look into that. Good question. But, since Paul said the marriage bed is undefiled, I would think sex during ministration would not be able to defile it.
@quicksandbuddy@xanga - I have heard this too. I am going to see what I can find out. There is nothing in the NT about it.
I've been wanting to do an entry like this for a while, but you beat me to it! (which is a good thing!)
Another thing about the Bible is what it really says about the act of getting married. In the Bible, there are no written in stone ideas of what officially declares a man and a woman married in the eyes of God, except one particular verse:
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Genesis 2:24.
There's not mention of a pastor/rabbi/priest, etc. no ornate ceremony, no official document saying that a couple is married, nothing material for that matter. In the Biblical sense, a man and a woman are married when they have sex. They can be committed to each other long before then, but the act of sex officially declares a couple married.
The other things, such as the ceremony and license, are all created by man and man alone.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - First off, you need to get a KJV.
Num 31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
And since you want to bear all, there are Laws dealing with this situation:
Deu 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
Deu 21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
Deu 21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
Deu 21:14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.
They have a month to get to know each other, and if it doesn't work out, she is free.
On your second count, it says:
Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
Deu 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
Deu 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
Deu 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Exo 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
Exo 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
First off, obviously the women knew the Law, so if she is not cheating on her husband, she is going to scream. If she doesn't scream, it is assumed not to b e rape. Very simple. Secondly, if her father doesn't want to allow him to have her, she will not be allowed to marry to marry him. A betrothed woman is considered to belong to her fiance, so if she is willingly having sex with another man it is the same as adultery. That is why she gets stoned too. If she is being raped, she will scream.
I didn't omit anything, because the verses you mention are not about rape.
@FOXHOUND_HQ@xanga - I agree 100%!!!! I don't think government has any place deciding who can and can't get married, giving out licenses and the like. I don't see how the government or state has any business in such matters.
atheists who are ignorant and clueless about the Bible and call Christians prudish are rather short sighted... and quite judgmental to suggest something like that...
stats have shown back in a Gallup poll in like 2005 that the most sexually satisfied were women who were in monogamous heterosexual Christian marriages...
this is huge because quite frankly, there is much satisfaction... the Bible says to come together often and to enjoy each other in servanthood and love... if each person is a servant lover in the marriage... you'll do things to satisfy each other sexually... and there is no prescription for what and how... it just says to do it... and in fact, atheists who never touched the Bible obviously missed the part where it's been said that in SoS, there are gleaming instances of oral sex... and you read 2x that this married couple has sex and you read it openly and plainly in poetic, erotic, open, and free language
marriage is the context for sex...
Christians are prudes because we don't go around sleeping with everyone on sight... and yet, the most sexually satisfied are the prudish Christian women in their marriages... statistically according to Gallup Poll 2005 (i think)...
and we're the prudes....
my boyfriend and i keep falling into the sin of Sex. we arent married, yet. i know the Bible says that sex before marriage is a sin. where? what else does it say??
@mtngirlsouth@xanga - as a Biblical studies student, i refuse to use the KJV. it's probably the worst translation from an academic POV. my Bible of choice is the Oxford Annotated Bible, but i have yet to find an online version of that. i used the Contemporary English Version.
"Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
what do you think the "for yourselves" part means? do you think these virgins went willingly?
"First off, obviously the women knew the Law, so if she is not cheating on her husband, she is going to scream."
to state that the difference between consensual sex and rape is whether or not anyone is around to hear you scream is hardly justice. what if she is gagged? what if no one is around?
@mtngirlsouth@xanga - Absolutely I agree. But look into that for me and let me know from your human opinion since I have already heard all the biblical commentary perspectives which I hardly remember but I obviously never bought into them.
thumb up!
@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - If you look at all those purity laws, especially in Leviticus, they are focused on not mixing things. You can't wear clothes made of two types of thread; you can't eat sea creatures (like shellfish) that could potentially live on land. You can't mix blood and semen. Ignoring the fact that the Bible was written in/for a male-dominated culture, I don't think there's really anything else psychological going on. The purity rituals (and being "clean") were only necessary when you wanted to go to the Temple, and the rituals are all pretty similar. So, don't worry too much about it.
My issue is that people like to pick and choose which bits of the 613 commandments they choose to quote and follow. Some people are all about the passages that say "you shall not lay with a man as you would a woman" but, gasp and horror, wear clothes made of an acrylic-cotton blend. I'd like to know their reasoning (when they only use OT references, at least; I can understand NT quotations) as to how they get to choose which bits are relevant and which aren't.
@missstewart09@xanga - The Bible actually says very little about sex before marriage. 1 Cor. 7:2 says that "each man should have his own wife and each woman, her own husband", which one could interpret as saying all sex should be limited to the husband-wife relationship. Most condemnations of sex are related to "sexual immorality", and that mostly being incest or adultery. The word, transliterated from Greek, is "porneia" and is often translated as "fornication"; Strong's Concordance says it is "harlotry, including adultery and incest". It seems that the Bible condemns sex with anyone else once you're married, but it's hard to tell if that also refers to sex before marriage.
Thinking back to Biblical times, they probably didn't have much sex before marriage, because girls were married off as soon as they hit puberty (and sometimes before!). So, I don't think the Bible directly addresses this issue, because it wasn't relevant to the culture as much then.
And so, I can't offer you any verses that I believe directly condemn sex before marriage. All I can say is pray about it and think about it in the context of your whole spiritual life. Is it bringing you guys closer to God? Awesome! Is it keeping you from God? Well, maybe it's time to rethink the situation.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Context.
The event involving Moses that you mentioned is about a raid upon a group of people known as the Midianites, who had ritual sex as part of idol worship (common in ancient times); idol worship that led many of the Hebrews away from God and more pragmatically, spread STD's (a "Plague" in the King James Version) due to their sexual idol worship, which was pretty much a death sentence back then. The Midianites were also former allies of the Hebrews, but had betrayed them and conspired with Balaam of the Moabites, who were enemies of the Hebrews. Balaam was the one who introduced Baal worship to the Midianites. (Numbers 22:24-27 and onward.)
From the verse you decided not to quote in it's entirety: "Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass agains the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD." Numbers 31:16.
Another verse you mentioned, Numbers 31:17. ("Now therefore kill every male among the little ones and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him" in the King James Version), referred only to the Midianites. The reason they had to kill the boys and women was that they were the ones who also participated in the orgies of Baal worship (the men had already been killed.) Due to there involvement, they too were infected with the disease (I believe it was syphillis) and would have spread it to the Hebrew's camp. Which is why in verse 18 of Numbers 31, the virgins were spared and incorporated into the Hebrews as one of their own (which is really merciful for those times, especially when dealing with traitors).
The action Moses and his generals took was the only way in ancient to prevent the further spread of death from disease. The Hebrews, who were living more like nomads at the time, were living in harsh times that did not offer more peaceful solutions, lest they themselves be destroyed.
In that time, in order to survive their travel through the desert, they had to remain unified more like a military unit than a tribe or clan. They weren't the only ones who had to do this, in order to survive as nomads in harsh environments, the ancient and medieval Mongols, Xiong-nu (aka the Huns), Uighurs, Jurchen and other nomadic peoples had to survive in such a manner, or else they would die from starvation and exposure due to selfishness (in times of desperation, people MUST work together to survive) or at that hands of raiders and other kingdoms and tribes, such as the Midianites and Moabites (because they could not fight as a cohesive unit). The political and military intregues of the ancient Hebrews personally remind me of the intregues of the Xiong-nu/Turks, and later, the Mongols.
On the (mis)quoted verses from Deuteronomy, lets look at a more precise wording. "23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
24 Then ye
shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall
stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried
not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his
neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."
In context, this policy of defining what is and isn't rape and prosecuting rape is still used today. The man has to use some sort of force or coercion and the woman has to at least say "no", or it's equivalent, or its not rape in the legal sense. Keep in mind that physically resisting is the non-verbal way of saying no. In order for both parties to be executed, it must be proven that the woman did not resist in any shape, form or fashion, thus willingly participated. It must also be proven that the man used no sort of force to have sex with the woman, as is stated in the verse the OP used: "Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the
man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her
shall die: 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in
the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his
neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found
her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to
save her. "
As for the last verse you used (Judges 5:30) This was a questioned being asked about the situation at hand, not a marching order. Sisera was an enemy of Israel and the verse you used was Sisera's mother crying about her son not returning from battle against the Israelites. Entire chapter here.
I hope this was informative.
@FOXHOUND_HQ@xanga - I hadn't thought of that at all. Good point!
@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - Hey buddy.
I'm calling you out on your terminology.
Orgasm=falling in lust, not love.
@mtngirlsouth@xanga - To make sure that creepy old men don't force little girls to marry them and be slave-wives.
@Katja88@xanga - Dealing with OT can be tricky. If you wanna study the Bible, you have to study Old and New Testament together, otherwise it seems contradictory.
@FOXHOUND_HQ@xanga - There is a wedding ceremony in the Bible. Remember the Wedding at Cana, where Jesus preformed his first miracle? Legal marriage is mentioned scores of times in the Old Testament. Plus divorce. There can be no legal divorce without a legal marriage.
@WhenFaithandFearCollide@xanga - I was referring to the implications of that verse. I was not saying that legal marriage wasn't in the Bible. Genesis 2:24 is the purest definition of marriage. It existed before God gave provisions for legal marriage. Even then, remember what Jesus said on the matter:
7They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
8He
said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to
divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.~ Matthew 19:7-8
Other cultures, having had no known contact with Mosaic law, also had provisions for legal wedding ceremonies, divorce, etc.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I KNEW I had read those verses somewhere. As I was reading through the OP, I was thinking, "What the hell, wasn't there something about she's guilty if she doesn't cry loud enough?"