Just wanted to clarify a theological point. If a person goes to Hell it is not because they rejected God. They are going because they are sinners who will pay the debt for sin. People go to jail for committing crimes. They do not go to jail for rejecting the Judge that tried the case. Should the judge offer a plea bargain and they refuse it, they are still going to jail because of the original offense.

Grace and peace!

~Michael

did you know that when they talk about Hell in the Bible they are talking about an earthly place?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

It had a very real and tangible meaning to the Jewish people, one that has been completely lost on Christianity.

Hell was indeed a dry valley where people and animals seemed to die.

The hell we're facing is a place where those go, who don't accept and have loved God.
It will be a place which will be far away from the loving kindness and warmth, love, grace, joy and happyness God brings in people's lives, and will only be agony because some will go there, while never experiencing these Godly fruits; basically cut off from life.

There are others that believe that demons will entertain them, but without knowing true love, demons will be even more a bother than collegues at work that always make your day go sour.

As far as hell is a place of fire and physical pain, who knows? The bible says that there is a lake of fire, and that Satan and his angels will be thrown in there, but if that applies to human souls as well I don't know, and am not intending to find out!

Some people have enough common sense not to try to figure that out, and even if it does not exist, I still live my life in a way (here on earth) that I believe to be right and good!

I have an issue with hell and heaven, as a believer, in that it is hard for me to understand how a loving God would damn souls into eternal damnation!
I would understand if there are degrees in heaven. A person that loves God much will have his home closer to God's throne, the source of all light in heaven, why a person who did not care about God will have his eternal home further away from God.
I find it hard to believe that there really is a border like: "From here you're in heaven, and from here it is hell".

But like said noone has been there, and those who where clinically dead, and later revived, they may have dreamed they went to a place like that, with stories, but who knows what happens for real once the soul does not return back anymore?

I agree that there is a possibility that Hitler could be in heaven... Only God the father and Jesus knows all the names written in the lambs book of life.

There are christians saying that God hates sin and that those who commit sin will go to hell, but those people are not sent by God, if they do not show the love necessary to show these people the way; for instead of a helping hand, they are a stumbling block to the non believer. Instead of going to where the non believer is, they expect those non believers to go where they are, and that is wrong.
Otherwise Jesus would have condemned us too while walking here on earth.
But He did not!
He just came to find those people who had the heart to love Him and his words, and who cherished his words in their hearts!
For those, Jesus came... To bring them life!
Thanks be to God in the highest for such a great love has been bestowed upon us, that he would care for those whom noone cared for!
That he would love the unloved, and with arms open wide, for anyone willing to receive Him as friend!

God absolutely is a mighty, and a loving God!
His story isn't about those who are choosing their own stories, but it is about those who choose to live their stories for the Lord!

i tend to reject the Christian notion of individual salvation, especially since only one human being sinned for all of us.  

This is what I believe is hell.
My belief only

http://bestbiblestudy.net/bible/node/6

I believe there's a hell.. but its only reserved for the true evil people.

then again, who are we to judge as being "truly evil"

my family believes everyone who doesn't believe in and accept Jesus is going to hell. I accept Jesus, but that thought makes me uncomfortable. I don't think God would be so willing to just throw people in the fire.

who knows.
its all unknown and scary to me.

@tau_1@xanga - Very interesting ideas, and I can see in some verses what you mean; but I also see there are more possible explanations to some of those verses!
In fact in PS37:10 (this is the verse that refers to "the wicked will be no more"), could be seen that:
1 - their wickedness will disappear
2 - They themselves will dissapear off the face off the earth because of the consequences of their own sin (most likely); or because of divine intervention.
3- In the afterlife, their sin will be burned, though they will be spared
4- In the afterlife they will be burned and exist no more(which is what I think you seem to suggest)
5- In the afterlife they will be burned with never ending excruciating pain, in other words, they will forever and for all eternity burn.(which is the most demonic translation of the bible, and shows nothing of the goodness of God, and that's why about this idea I have my doubts that this is a thought, the way God wanted us to understand it).

Rev 20:9 is the same thing, the fire coming down from heaven
It could be talking about
1- A spiritual fire, people repent and regret their actions (in which case the fire burned Gog and Magog, not the people)
2- A physical fire like that of an atom Bomb, destroying the millions of lives of humans on earth
3- People who're already dead, in their spiritual bodies are going for an attack on earth much like demons did when Jesus hung on the cross; then the fire devoured their spiritual being.
4- Or just burned their evils and sin, but spares them in the process,
5- and perhaps some more (overlooked) possibilities...

What's noteworthy is the next verse, verse 10:
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning
sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They
will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
It is not saying that people will be thrown in there. It is talking about the devil and his angels.

Then it mentions in v.13:
"The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up
the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to
what he had done.

14

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.The lake of fire is the second death."
In other words people came alive again, because even death was thrown in the lake of fire, so there was no death anymore to die into!

Then it says:
"If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

I don't know where reading it, but there is a possibility until right before death will be thrown in the lake of fire, to get saved; some people suggest that once you die you can't get saved, but that does bring some difficulties concerning those who just never heard about Jesus.
I'm firmly sure that Jesus will not overlook these people, but will do anything to call them out as well!
Or what about babies that never gotten the chance to grow, because they got murdered either through abortion or just murder?

anyways... I have a hard time understanding or believing how a Holy God will allow this to happen, but if that is God, and this is the situation, I'm willing to accept that it is real; though it will give me a whole different, much harder to understand, impression of God!

@girl_lost_in_the_dark@xanga - Gays and homosexuals make you believe you are born that way, but it's nothing but a lame excuse for circumventing the truth!
God and nature make no mistakes about it!

Gays and homosexuals are people like anyone else; it is not their humanity that brings them to hell, because they can still repent and change their ways.
It is the sin of not accepting the grace offered by God's only begotten son, through we have eternal life.
Eternal life is by grace!
However, that does not mean that a homosexual, lesbian or gay person will ever experience or be a part of the kingdom of God here on earth!
Jesus says anyone who practices these things ... whichcraft, sorcery, adultry,... and homosexuality, will not see the kingdom of heaven.
That means the kingdom Jesus was praying saying "Thy kingdom comes, here ON EARTH AS IT IS in heaven".

In heaven there will be no marrying, there will be no male or female, so no opportunity to be 'different', because we're all souls stuck in an immortal body; but on earth there is difference between man and woman, just like there will be no stealing, because there is no 'matter'(stuff) that we can steal, or greed. or jealousy, because there is nothing to be jealous about or greedy for!
Anything you would want you can get; including seeing the Lord!

Homosexuality is a sin, which you can repent of; and the fruit of your repentance, is seeing love for a same sex person in a whole different way!
Not sexual, but truly and honestly a love that is equally loving man, woman, child, elderly, mom and dad, son and daughter. A serving love, without the sexual ties connected!

So you are saved only if you accept Jesus' offer for you; that because of Him, you will be saved; and because of noone else!

Just as works can not save you, so works can not make you lose your eternal salvation. Jesus is the only way to be saved, and that's the grace that has been given unto us!

@ProDigit - In Psalm 37:9,10 I just take it face value for what it says with cross reference. Wicked will not be. To me that mean nothing gone, completed no more. Just like if you burn a fire, it completely burn until it burn up. They are talking about sin and the sinner at that time.

As I gave you the example of a piece of paper, that when you burn it, it burn until it is completely burn up. And in Revelation 20:1-3 and 7-10 it shows the two thing that will happen to the Devil before this hell is ignited and he is cast into it. Also, note, that if Satan has not yet been bound, then it is possible to say that the fires of hell will not begin burning for at least another 1,000 yrs. into the future.

i am just saying we as human has a choose, we can choose this day whom we can serve?

@MC_Shann@xanga - I agree with your first post.

@foxes_have_holes@xanga - It was an ______ (I keep forgetting the word that means this is like that...). Try describing a rainbow to a blind man, or motherhood to a young boy. You have to make comparisons. Gehenna is a stinking, disgusting, slimy, burned-out and yet still burning, throat-choking, putrid, burning dry place where all the stages of death and destruction were in action at one time. Hell is like this, but only more so.

@ProDigit - Paul said that some preached the gospel only to do damage to Paul (how this was supposed to work, you can think on, I've come up with a couple of ways) and he was glad because, whether it was sincere or not, the gospel of Jesus Christ (man's communal and individual lost situation in their own sin, God's salvation offered through the intervening sacrifice of Jesus Christ's death, the proof of this in Jesus' resurrection on the third day, and the only requirement for salvation to accept, believe and confess these truths for ourselves) is preached. I don't think that these people were what you would call loving when they were preaching the gospel. It's not the person... it's the message. The person CAN make a difference, but the message getting to the receipient is what really matters.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Adam didn't sin for us all. He was the prototype, and he failed. We are made in the same mold, and all break roughly the same way, given any real personal choice... we will sin. God sent Jesus to pay off our individual sin debts with his own righteousness (which is God-sized, and therefore big enough to cover all of us and to spare). We only need accept this gift for ourselves. ALL individual, and all very personal.

@tau_1@xanga -  Then what of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man? It shows all three individuals in what I view as the group holding cells for their individual futures - paradise and (hades? pulling this from memory), the temporary holding cells until they get to the full deal, after their individual judgements. The PEOPLE are reserved for judgement, in my reading of this scripture (no original language scholarship, though). I also figure the eternal burning is both complete and continuing, as spirit seems to be eternal, in whatever form. I view this as a basic characteristic of all spirit existence. Continual destruction that never ends... glad I know Christ is my saviour. Hope you do, too.

@raspberryjade@xanga -  Think of it this way:  sin - viewed as the spiritual equivalent of a genetic or transmitable deadly disease that caused insanity (spiritual rabies?), which it does in a way - sinning against God is truly insane, and which also caused ugliness, atrociously hideous putrification and stomach-churning odor, turrets-like outbursts, sexual perverions and physically damaging actions against ourselves and others. There is only one cure - the voluntary inbibing of the blood of a truly pure individual, but only the LAST drop, the one that kills by its' exit.

Do you let someone with this disease live in your house, making pain and mess and disgusting smells and activities, just because they wouldn't take the medication when it was available? How long do you put up with it, before you have to give them the ol' yeller treatment, or take their inherent human choice away from them, and force them to take the treatment? The treatment doesn't work by force, so... BANG!

And since souls/spirits are eternal... you have to keep it up.

Also, sin is like breaking God's rules and his heart at the same time. What sort of punishment is right for breaking a pure heart (what sort of punishment would you give for raping a child? It's like that, only God is more pure, more sweet, more loving than any child - childlikeness is a dim reflection of God.) I'd do my worst against that sort of evil. I am that sort of evil, on the spiritual side. So are you.

Both are bad allegories, but together they do give you most of my take on the whole why Hell exists question.

@girl_lost_in_the_dark@xanga -  So you believe the 'genetic' arguement for the sexual sins you have listed. I don't, and therefore see no problem with chosen lifestyles requiring imposed punishment.

If you are right, though... Everyone with red hair WILL go to Hell. If. If they have ever lied, insulted God, had false gods like money or family or nationality or culture or sexuality, or..., or lusted for someone else's wife, stuff, help, situation, or didn't honor their father or mother (whether they deserved it or not), or murdered (or hated without reason - Jesus extension), etc. Have you ever lied? Then you don't have to worry about sexual choice/genetic predisposition/genetic predestination of gender roles sending you to Hell. Telling Aunt Harriet she looks pretty when you don't believe it will get you there, anyway.

As for all people being perfectly in God's image... Hitler, Antichrist...

IMPERFECTLY, I'll grant you, and then say imperfect isn't good enough for the 100% passing grade.

@la_lune_du_chasseur@xanga - Look at the God of the O.T. and how he destroyed people who wouldn't follow him - over and over... The Flood is the highest level of this destruction. And if you think that God's nature changed in the N.T., then look at Jesus, who came only to save, blasting hypocrites with insulting but true words, and driving the money changers (who were insulting his Holy Father by theiving in God's name) from the temple. Then look at Revelation, and Jesus' return with an army destroying all the host of darkness - twice (before and after the Millenium).

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga -
Jeremiah 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jeremiah 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

there are other Biblical quotes that say roughly the same thing: the only sins that are attributed to you are YOURS. Unless, of course, they are attributed to Jesus as he was on the cross. Then even your own sins aren't YOURS.

Adam CAN'T sin for us, any more than I can sin for the guy down the street. We are his children, therefore we partake of his characteristics, and thus we sin LIKE him.

If we are saved, we become the children of God, and begin to partake of HIS characteristics, and then we begin to act and be holy LIKE Him.