Sunday, 01 November 2009
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Are We Dumbing Down Sunday School?
I have a professor who spent 12 years in Israel. He is an expert on Old Testament context and Judaism. Yesterday, he said he had a beef with Sunday school.He told us a story of a friend he had while living in Israel who moved to Australia, got married, and had kids. There came a time that she was able to visit Israel again, and while talking to my professor, she said that if she could she would move back to Israel even though she had no guarantee of a job. When asked why, she said, "Because here my kids can learn Hebrew, Talmud, Torah, etc, and if they stay in Australia they can color Joseph's coat."
They can color Joseph's coat?
He also told us a story last week. He asked his daughter a few weeks ago what she had learned in Sunday school. She said, "Abraham went camping, so we roasted marshmallows." I'm sorry, but something is definitely wrong here. Why do we dumb the Bible down for kids? They can process vast amounts of information at young ages, yet we treat them like they can't. And then those years of their lives are gone; wasted.
We have got to stop dumbing things down for kids. Not just the Bible, but life in general. The earlier you expose kids to new and big ideas, the better grasp they will have on their entire life.
One last story. My professor had a friend who attended a University where the students automatically major in Jewish Studies, and if they want to study something else they have to double-major. When asked why he went there, the friend answered, "I grew up going to Jewish school. For college, I decided to go to UCLA, but was bored out of my mind. So I transferred."Do you think we're dumbing down Sunday school? What should we do instead?
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- From: foxes_have_holes@xanga
- About Me: I'm just some guy who is trying to live out what Jesus said. I don't know everything and I won't pretend to. This is more about me learning than it is about me sharing what I know.
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Comments (24)
When I was younger and in Sunday school we didn't do anything but colored. This was back in the mid 80's and I take it they are still watering things down. That is just sad and one of many reasons that I don't go to church.
Young children aren't likely to understand exegesis. At that age, you want to make it fun and exciting, and gradually introduce the core principles as they get more involved.
I don't know, for one these are all nothing more that personal anecdotes so they prove nothing. If the Israeli education system is so great, why is there a huge backlog of Israeli students wanting to go to college in America?
As a Catholic, we don't have "Sunday School". You are Catechized either through attending Catholic School in K-12 or through your parish Catechism program including preparation for first communion and Confirmation. The ultimate responsibility, though, rests with parents. I learned more about our Church, Scripture, and Tradition from my mom and dad than from school.
I am not sure why so many people seem to think one has to be a biblical scholar or to know Hebrew in order to be a better Christian, but it strikes me as a little hypocritical from people who also claim to abhor anything that approaches what they call a "works-based" salvation. Shouldn't your interest be that the kids learn about Christ and Salvation? Espousing how proficient you are in the Talmud seems to be something the Pharisees would have done.
“You do not have to sneak up behind this spiritually experienced youth and whisper religion in their ears; you can come right out, face to face, and talk with them. … You can bring these truths to them openly. … There is no need for gradual approaches.” – J. Reuben Clark Jr. (modern Apostle, now deceased)
You can't always trust everything that kids say about what they are being taught. Some of the things I hear back from parents about real school blow my mind. WHEN did I show them Dora!?
Anyway, you don't want to dumb Sunday School down, but you do want to help kids to enjoy Sunday School so that they will want to keep coming back and not see it as a chore. Also, one of the best ways to learn things is through movement, so making something is a good way to make a connection. Sure, they should learn more about Abraham than that he went camping, but it's not dumbing it down to have fun, too.
Also, some of the responsibility lies with the parents. If that mom wants her kids to learn like they do in Israel, she has all the power to make that possible on her own.
For some time we have dumbed down Sunday School and used it as an excuse for parents not to be responsible for raising their children in the faith. Perhaps we should spend more time smartening up the parents to raise their own children in the faith ... vs. dumbing down Sunday School and making parents bring their kids to Children's church. Our kids are not nearly as dumb as we make them out to be ...
I'm really starting to get ticked off with Sunday school. Its so easy to predict what everyone is going to say especialy when i know what the topic is going to be. It needs to have more variety and creativity. Its just not getting to me anymore.
Religious instructions is actually a structured form of evangelism. So if the teachers practice watered down Christianity in their own lives that is what they will teach.
I grew up having Bible class at home with my mom as well as attending AWANA, both of which taught me a lot. We switched churches when I was in 4th grade and our new church didn't have AWANA and I remember being bored a lot because we didn't learn anything. If you want your kids to get a good Biblical education you need to find a good program, just like you'd look for a good school if you wanted them to get a good general education.
Kids are a lot smarter than we as a society tend to treat them.
I agree! I've read through plenty of children's sunday school material....some pretty good. But in general, they make me very sad. Lots of times they are just teaching morals without God, or the bibical account is totally dumbed down. I've had to ditch the sunday school lesson out of pure disgust. There are many ways of making it fun and hands on without dumbing it down.
@bwebbjr@xanga - I think you have a good point.
Sunday schools for young children can't be "smart" if the parents and members picking up the role are uninformed and uneducated.
I think that if you want to really indoctrinate a child, you should dumb-down the material so that the person believes in it tooth-and-nail before being able to realize any problems/contradictions.
I agree, and it is not just Sunday School. I think as a whole we have dumbed everything down, including Christian books for children, and movies. I have a big problem with VeggieTales, when they take a bible story, and completely twist and change it, simply because it is for kids and "they wouldn't understand"
Today we did the story of David and Goliath, in my Sunday School class. I teach grades 4-6. We not only covered the whole "david killed the giant" part of it. but we also talked about David hacking off Goliath's head. As well as David getting Saul's daughter as a reward.
The kids understood the lesson, they also understood that God will help them, like He helped David, and they then prayed, and asked God to help them with the various problems that they are facing. The kids also asked me about prayer, and if they could talk to God about anything, or if prayers had to be said using big fancy words.
All in all it was a good conversation, and I didn't have to use an Island of eternal tickling, or pickles and tomatos in order to get my point across.
I think a lot of things are dumbed down for kids. It's a shame really.
I am not familiar with sunday school though, at least not kids Sunday school, so I can't make a judgement there. However, I wouldn't doubt it probably is.
Amen. A few weeks ago I assisted in beginners church and the lesson was about Jesus remaining at the synagogue while his parents continued on their journey. Except in the lesson they referred to the synagogue as a "church." Maybe it would be too confusing to explain synagogue to four year olds, but I grew up thinking that Jesus went to church with his parents on Sundays and that He was a Christian.
Very interest commmentary. The problem with human is, we are frighten of the truth, the hold truth and nothing but the truth. The truth hurt.
Remember that Guy in Louisiana that refuse to Marriage that couple? Well, most people are still living in the past and in tradition. They don't know why.
As each of us grow and mature use a going to learn something, however, hope we learn the truth and nothing but the truth.
My father was a Christian minister. I grew up going to Sunday School. We didn't color books. We were taught things but it was truly the most suffocating experience in my life. Even at the age of 6 or 7 I felt the self-righteousness of the Sunday School teachers. Today I know why but then I felt only their darkness. Getting out of those classes felt like coming up from the bottom of a lake for air. I'll put this thought out there. If you aren't living the same life condition as Jesus you don't understand what he was talking about. It might be ok to teach a child how to shoot baskets without being an NBA level player but in the realm of religion, the belief system that guides everything we do, if we don't know for ourselves what Jesus knew for himself we will naturally be misleading. Simply studying the Talmud or the Bible makes us no more than parrots who have no idea the meaning behind the words we're saying. Religion is not some wishy washy thing to have faith in because "authorities" warn us that we need to. The threat of hell after death is a clever ploy as is the promise of heaven after death. How much would a crooked man love to be able to sell bridges to people if he could make them believe the bridges will be waiting for them after they die. Jesus himself said the Kingdom of Heaven is within and yet people of authority have come up with all kinds of ways to ignore those simple words. The Bible states that the number of perfect redemption is 10. If we are truly seekers we should be anxious to uncover the meaning of that statement. When we look around at all of the strife in the world the first thing we should realize is something is terribly wrong. The question we should ask is "Why is it so?" The thing we should do is look for the answer until we find it. Many have pointed to the answer. It's there for the taking. Jesus wasn't speaking lightly when he said "Seek and ye shall find."
as a kid, i got tired of every week's lesson being about how much Jesus loves me. it's nauseating and insulting to my intelligence. by the time i was 13, i was correcting my teachers when they quoted wrong Bible verses. i knew more Latin and Greek than any adults at my church. and i wanted to debate evolution, abortion, pre-marital sex... not sing "This Little Light of Mine" and watch Veggie Tales.
kids aren't as dumb as adults think they are.
What age group is being discussed? "Color Joseph's coat" is entirely age-appropriate for three-year-olds. However, if the kids were older, that would certainly count as dumbing down.
"Dumbing down" is a huge problem in education in general-- if you think it's only a problem in Sunday School, you just haven't been looking at other curriculum too. Language Log just profiled a grammar reference book published by HarperCollins, no less, that misidentified the subject and predicate in a two word sentence. Hint: When you say "My word!" "My" is not the subject, and "word" is not the predicate. (It's a noun phrase functioning as an interjection.) True story.
I edit Sunday School curriculum for a living, by the way. I make sure it's intelligent.
I have major concerns with the way that "bible stories" are taught in Sunday school. Watering down the text to make it "FUN" leads to nothing more than placing the bible on par with Grimm's fairy tales. God came to earth in the flesh...the troll waited under the bridge. Noah went on a trip, wouldn't that be fun? Moses' face shone like the sun when he saw the glory of God--just like a flashlight shining out of his face (imagine children giggling), Jesus' multiplying loaves & fishes is reduced to a story of how we should all share.
Once the bible is equated with myths and fairy tales, that's all it will ever be to kids. That's why a vast amount of teenagers think the bible is no longer "relavent (sp?) to today's problems.
We don't want to scare children, so we skip over the part about everyone on earth, except those on the arc, dying. We could be showing the awesome power of God, but we choose instead to sing cute little songs and color ships with giraffes' heads sticking out at the top.
Why would we think adolescents would want to cling to such a "weak" God in times of trouble?
I do agree that the parents have the greater influence on the spiritual life of children vs. what they learn on Sunday mornings. But my experience has been terribly frustrating. I don't take my kids to church to "learn" about the Lord, per say, but to interact with like-minded people. But I find the like-mindedness about how/what to teach is always lacking. So...my kids learn at home and are able to discuss the bible (not just memorize verses), and they go to church for some good clean fun.
By the way, I don't speak Hebrew, but would love to learn!
Would you like to teach your kids the gory details of the last moments of Christ's life? I thought not.
Don't worry though, the Uncles at temple to the same thing to us. I find myself wondering if there's something else to Hinduism other than the same "Ram-Sita-Hanuman-Krishna" stuff...
@Faerie_In_Combat_Boots@xanga - I would like to teach my kids the gory details of the last moments of Christ's life. I would also like them to explore the depths of the theological implications of it. I'd like them to engage the text to the fullest form at the youngest age possible.
It's a challenge with the chill'uns at a Sunday school. At any school/school-like area with lots of children at one place, really. One of the tricks is that it becomes really hard that you're not stepping on any parents' toes...at the summer camp I've worked at for the past few years, we've had a seven year old whose parents let him watch Family Guy, R-rated movies horror movies, etc, and an 8 year old girl who never got to watch TV to begin with. I'm not defending lame, weak Sunday School activities (or those in the regular edumcation system), but giving a potential spot for where parents are coming from. Kids are tough.
@jekajajojesa@xanga - I have major concerns with the way that "bible stories" are taught in Sunday school. Watering down the text to make it "FUN" leads to nothing more than placing the bible on par with Grimm's fairy tales.
Point of inquiry: have you read any of Grimm's tales? They're not as happy as Disney wants us to think. They can actually get amusiningly brutal; Cinderella's stepmom hacks off part of the step sisters' heels to try to fit in the glass slipper, the sisters' eyes get poked out for their lying ways, and Little Red Riding Hood (after being eaten) puts rocks in the Wolf's stomach so that a nearby hunter can beat the tar out of him. The Bible's not much worse
Not a personal attack or anything, I've just done some school reports on the Brothers Grimm and am a fan of the tales and wanted to reply.
@foxes_have_holes@xanga - To each his own, I guess. I told my little sister how they crucified Jesus (she was like 6 at the time?) and had nightmares.
But as to the theological aspect of it, I'm thinking the child in question should be mature enough to understand the whys and the hows of the Bible...and I know some adults who still aren't.
@CyanideNGunpowder@xanga - There's something you want to read at 3 AM... XDD