I think I'm good in nature but under other classifications and considerations I may not be.  Morality is shaped by social conventions and inventions but innate goodness could be possible but futile without other people's input or appreciation.  Though it seems we live in a world increasing in what some may deem as corrupt inventions that others may pass as acceptable.  I am not here to judge, only passing observation.

The question of whether or not we are good depends on who/what decides what is actually "good".
God's standards of "good" and our own secular standards of "good" are very different things.

If you cut out the existence of God, of course the only standard of good will be our own, and so we can easily argue that we are good, or simply adjust what constitutes goodness until it is something commonly attainable.

But if the God of the Bible is real(which is what I believe to be true), we can not be good apart from Him, because the goodness He requires is far beyond our own nature or ability.

Funny how atheists always complain about Christians advertising their cause on public forums...

@Lil_Firefly_25@xanga - lol

Ahhh, but is God good without me?  

When it comes to the conept of goodness, we see that there are two aspects: a thing that is good with qualification i.e. that it does good in order to become good, or that thing which is good in itself i.e. good without qualification. The will is the only good thing that is good in itself. We can see this clearly within the construct of God. God, without any other actions, is simply good in Himself, His will that is.

We do have the choice to do good, or that which is morally commendable, but nevertheless within our very nature we are imperfect. This leads us to do things that are not morally commendable and in fact can lead us to do what is immoral. Simply put, man is imperfect and although he is capable of performing moral acts, almost never does, or falls short of the goal presented.

What Christ presented in the Gospels was a message of Salvation. In essence, salvation is the means to Spiritual freedom. He saves us ethically, and revives our perfect humanity. I do think that people can be good without God, but innately speaking there is something flawed in the very nature of a human being that requires Salvation in order to realize the true humanity of the individual - and that Salvation comes in the form of Christ.

It's funny they think they are "good without God" when they are actually the creation OF God... oops =)

Gen 1:31 "Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good."

I agree with what you said at the end.  Although I'm sure people are capable of doing good deeds without believing in God (because we encourage such deeds as part of our social construct), I know that the further I am from him the less often I do such deeds and with less pure motives.  Let alone my thoughts and attitudes!

Of course being "good" is much different from doing good things.  If I can't even manage to do good things consistently without God, how could I ever define myself as good?  To call yourself "good" you have to compare yourself to something or someone else.  Compared to genocidal leaders, yes I'd say I'm good.  Compared to the everyday person, I guess I'm average, some days on the low side of average.  Compared to the Mother Theresas of the world, I'm pretty selfish and not good.  Compared to God, well, there is no comparison.  And I think the Bible is pretty clear who we should be comparing ourselves to (hint: it's not each other).

@Sum_Ergo_Cogito@xanga - "We do have the choice to do good, or that which is morally commendable, but nevertheless within our very nature we are imperfect...Simply put, man is imperfect and although he is capable of performing moral acts, almost never does, or falls short of the goal presented."  That's a great explanation.

@LoBornlyte@xanga - "It must never be forgotten that the greatest mass murders in human history were committed by Marxist atheists."  I think comparing humans to humans gets us into trouble more than it helps boulster our position.  One could just as easily bring up the Crusades or Hitler's professed religiosity, let alone one of the many other religious based crimes throughout history (doesn't have to be from the Christian religion, any one with a god will do for the sake of the atheist's argument). 
After all, our enemies are not atheists, but the devil.  He is the greatest evil, not the men who do his bidding.  When we use mere men as our example of greatest evil, we greatly diminish the capability of evil.  After all, the marxist atheists were eventually stopped.  We can't delude ourselves into thinking that actual evil can be stopped by anyone but God Himself.  Just a thought.  Or two or three

@theworldiswatchingyou@xanga - well, that is the way it's supposed to be interpreted.  i read tons of articles about this before the OP posted, so i'm very familiar with the organization's intent.

@Sum_Ergo_Cogito@xanga -

"We do have the choice to do good, or that
which is morally commendable, but nevertheless within our very nature
we are imperfect. This leads us to do things that are not morally
commendable and in fact can lead us to do what is immoral. Simply put,
man is imperfect and although he is capable of performing moral acts,
almost never does, or falls short of the goal presented."

i'd like to pose a question, then...

just because man can never be perfectly good... does that mean he should stop trying?  it seems to me that that is precisely what Christianity argues, and the concept of Christian salvation comes across as very self-serving in the end.  after all, salvation helps no one but yourself. 

Beyond the bluster is actually a very indicting point: this sign indirectly points out that Christians have made their religion about "being good." It's not. It's about being forgiven 'cause none of us is good enough. (Good, maybe, but not good enough.)

Always listen to objections to what you believe; you may find that they're valid (though usually in slightly different ways than the objectors intend).

@modernmelody - the question that should be posed then is...... are subjective moral acts any less valuable to humanity because they aren't committed by perfect individuals?  i'd respect Christianity a lot more if it didn't seem to dismiss doing good for others just because it's not what gets you into Heaven.  i wouldn't want to live my life with that as my ONLY purpose.  as i stated in a comment earlier, that just seems so selfish.  and i see a lot of Christians using it as an excuse to either not do the right thing, or do the wrong thing. 

sure, my volunteer time might not matter to God...... but it matters to the individuals i help.  the good i do is self-evident every day i bring a smile to someone's face.  and you don't need to be perfect to do it.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Agree totally. Like I said, if this was a flyer about Christianity, it would be totally awesome, of course. But if it was something promoting Hinduism or Paganism, they would freak out about it, too. And it pisses me off when Christians say they're persecuted. I'm agnostic as well, and I have a few atheist friends...did you know that they're the least trusted people in all of America? I know way more atheist friends who are good natured than so called "Christians" (who go out on the weekends and get drunk and have sex and say it's okay because on Sunday they can go to church and be 'forgiven'). 

@LoBornlyte@xanga - "There is no factual basis for linking Christianity with the NAZI agenda."

You're simply wrong. The Nazi party was openly based on a vaguely Pagan Christianity. Arguing with me on this one is to argue with the history books. Catholic clergy of Germany at the time was always in bed with the nazi party. http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005206

"Religion attenuates the evil in people who
practice religion.  For atheists there is nothing to attenuate to base
nature of man."

Is that why all crusades, suicide bombing, witch burnings, abortion clinic bombings and suicide cults are ONLY done by religious people?

"That is the causal link between mass murder and atheism."

You actually provided no "link." Just an unsupported claim.

"For both the facist and the Marxist the state or the leader is god. "

Which is exactly why it goes directly against Atheistic philosophy, which you clearly have very little grasp of. You seem to have trouble discerning that not all atheism is marxist.

"You have no trouble finding causal links
between Christianity and whatever lie is making the rounds yet you let
mass murdering atheists skate."

Wrong again! lol  - nothing I said denied the fact that there have been Atheistic mass murderers. There have been atheist mass murders and religious mass murderers. It's just that none of the atheist mass murderers have killed in the name of atheism, just in spite of it - something you can't say about religious killings that are done in the name of which ever religion's God. Hitler's atheism had about as much to do with his killing than his vegetarianism.

It's funny that you had nothing to say about how the modern countries that carry the highest rates of Atheism are the ones with the lowest crime rates and highest living conditions, or anything to say about how scientists, who save the most lives, carry very high rates of Atheism. And YOU'RE accusing ME of selective bias.