Friday, 16 October 2009

  • Holiness is not about "Happiness"

    Holiness is not about While catching up with a friend the other day, I’d learned news of a young lady whom we both knew. Throughout her life, men had let her down: First her dad, then boys she’d “fall in love with”, her Pastor, and maybe even God in her understanding of Him. Well, just the other day, I saw on her Facebook that she's dating a woman (this is what prompted me to catch up with my friend in the first place). After giving some background info, my friend ended by saying, "If she's happy, I don't care."

    "If she's happy, I don't care." This may echo in the ears of those of you who grew up in the 70s (or if you watched the 70s documentary on the History Channel), for the whole Hippie movement includeddo whatever makes you happy”. And we see it all the time today, too, don't we? People still divorce because they’re not “happy” anymore (regardless of the effects on their kids); people cheat and fall in love claiming that person makes them “happy” (regardless of the effects on their spouse and promises they’d made to God during their wedding). Moses even broke God’s Law and allowed people to divorce due to their hardened hearts…they were no longer “happy”--all sinful behaviors prompted by the selfish need of being temporarily “happy”. And I say “temporary” because “happiness” is actually just a temporary emotion that we receive when something happens for us. So why do people do what they know is wrong for the sake of happiness? I think it’s because we do what makes us feel good. If you have a choice between being punched in the lip or kissed on the lips, which would you pick? The kiss, right? There was a prophet in the Bible who commanded somebody to punch him in the lip. When the guy refused, the prophet cursed him for not obeying a direct command for the sake of the Kingdom of God. I’m sure he didn’t want to be socked in the lip, but it was for the sake of glorifying God that such was required.

    Here’s an off-thought: you’ve babysat a child before, right? What do we do when they misbehave? We put them into time-out, spank their bottoms, scold them, discipline, take something away, etc., right? But they're not happy anymore, are they? So then with children and youth, it’s not about “being happy”, but about correcting their behavior, right? So why then is it that when adults do something "wrong", we (especially as Christians) give an opinion, let it go, and often even decide to be happy for them ourselves, “because they're happy"? In other words, why do we discipline children and youth when they misbehave, but ignore adults when they misbehave, especially when it’s sin? (Read 1 Corinthians 5:1-8 for Paul’s response to this)

    As Christians, we are called by God Himself to live a holy life…different from others in the world. Jesus said that to be His disciple, we must first deny ourselves. Doing so often means to deny what we would normally do to make ourselves “happy”, and to instead do what would Glorify God (and this will increase our JOY). In other words, shed our selfishness and put on the selflessness that Jesus demonstrated on the cross.I’ve often said, “Your feelings will betray you.” Why? Because how we feel will often help decide our next action. In fact, Satan often uses our feelings to lure us into sin, for temptation is a “feeling” of desire, and our feelings towards the desire often decide on how we will respond to it. If we “feel” that it will be OK (even if it’s really not), then we’ll do it. Therefore, I say that we must never…NEVER decide on an action based on our feelings…NEVER…until we’ve tested the spirit from which it came. And we can do this by asking ourselves, “How will this affect me”, “How will this affect others”, and “Will this glorify God and please Him, or will it go against God and just please me?”

    Do you think that giving in to happiness and other feelings can lead us into sin?

Comments (19)

  • scrambledmegsntoast@xanga

    There are many, many things that lead us into sin. Happiness is just one part of concupiscence. I think it depends upon what you are giving into; this post seems to equate giving into what is wrong entirely with giving into happiness. But we can be happy by doing what is right, also.

  • Pickwick12@xanga

    Good post. It's definitely not about what makes us feel good right away, though holiness will lead to greater happiness down the road. It's the same thing with kids. Disciplining them now leads to a happier life later.

    You're absolutely right.

  • pnrj@xanga

    Be careful not to confuse subjective pleasure with eudamonic happiness. When a parent says to a child, "I just want you to be happy", they clearly aren't saying "I want you to experience the maximum quantity of subjective pleasure possible, even if it means doing horrible things and living out your life on a continuous heroin drip." Rather, they seem to mean something like, "I want you to live the best life you can live on your own terms, be free to choose your own identity and your own future, in order to achieve satisfaction in your life." This latter sense is eudamonic happiness, and there is a lot to be said for it, from Epicurus and Aristotle to John Stuart Mill and John Rawls.

  • naphtali_deer@xanga

    Only a relationship with God through Jesus Christ leads to the only true and lasting happiness, joy, what have you. God wants us to enjoy Him. Our ultimate happiness and the glory of God are not at odds.

    Satisfy us in the morning with your steadfast love, that we may rejoice and be glad all our days. Psalm 90:14

    You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Psalm 16:11

    These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. John 15:11

    Or, as John Piper puts it, glorify God by enjoying Him forever!

  • salvatruca_stalking_havok13@xanga

    Can't we be happy doing something that pleases God? I believe that doing things that can please us (ex. like taking joy in helping those in need) can please God. I also believe that doing things we think please God (ex. speaking on His behalf even though we do not know what He believes because we are not Him) can actually displease Him. I don't like this association of happiness with sin. I'm not saying that certain things that please us don't lead to sin, but I don't think God wants sullen Cynics worshipping Him. And who knows? Maybe little things like appreciating life and finding one's true path, purely self serving things, can please God as well. He may like it when we're happy with our lives.

  • god_stories@xanga

    I feel really sad reading this post.  Jesus seems to say that He came to offer abundant life.  Paul talks about experiencing joy.  I've come to believe that my joy...IS God's glory.  And by joy I mean an honest to goodness sense of joy, happiness, satisfaction, rest, peace...not some hard to understand alternative definition of joy.

    Love God and do as you please - Augustine
    Sin boldly and believe even more boldly - Luther
    Don't settle for just being good - Richard Meux Benson

    My take on the Gospel...is that Jesus offered grace to sinners and those that didn't have relationship God, but seemed to harshly treat those that burdened the people with rules.  Where is the good news to a culture that doesn't know Jesus...is the gospel still mean good news?

    Sin is merely unhelpful to our own sustained joy.  It may offer joy for a moment, but our true happiness if found when we know ourselves and love ourselves in relationship with others.  Sin gets in the way of that.

    I see the point you are trying to make, but you've completely left out context...and come to conclusion that I've come to understand in my own life as unhelpful.  Unhelpful for growth, unhelpful for happiness, and unhelpful for relationship with God and others...and unhelpful to achieve holiness (for the long term).

    And feelings are merely sign posts that let us know what's happening inside us.  If I don't trust my own feelings then I don't know myself...and likely means that I don't honor (really love) some part of myself.  And all that is said without judgment...knowing oneself is a lifetime journey!

    Praise the living God!

  • deepestrecesses

    Do you think that giving in to happiness and other feelings can lead us into sin?


    Absolutely.


    In fact, I don't think God has called us to be "happy" (at least in the American understanding of the word). 


    He's given us peace that actually trancends happiness because happiness is circumstancial. 


    As Paul wrote "I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am in.  In humble means, in propserity, in any and all circumstances I know the secret of being filled and going hungry, both having abundance and suffering need" (Phil 4:10-12)


    I think as a Christian, our concern should follow along the same concerns as those of our Father; so, in one respect, we're not really looking to make people happy.  We're looking into something deeper, and greater.  Something that is far more beneficial.

  • Delmege@xanga

    Adam fell that men might be; men are that they might have joy. Happiness is not a bad thing to desire or strive for; I believe the pursuit of happiness is a God-given right and is the purpose for our lives on Earth. However, I agree, that the pursuit of instant gratification can be a sinful one; while the idea of delayed gratification, which comes in the form of finally returning to the presence of our God, is the more righteous endeavor. We are not commanded, though, to simply endure to the end, dragging our feet, feeling sorry for ourselves, and being miserable, but to be of good cheer, have a light heart, enjoy our time on Earth.

  • mtngirlsouth@xanga

    Where is the story you refer to about a prophet getting hit in the lip?

  • LeMepris@xanga

    Happiness is the primary motivating force behind everything human beings do, including adopting a religion.

  • TheSutraDude@xanga
    "As Christians, we are called by God Himself to live a holy life…different from others in the world."

    I keep seeing this type of statement popping up, just yesterday as a matter of fact. If I cannot see God working through everyone and everything then I have to question what it is I'm looking at. It's not just in religion that we see this and it might be valuable to see this same attitude from some other perspectives. 
    Having lived in New York City for most of my life I can't tell you the number of times I have heard the words, "New York is the greatest city in the world!", so imagine my dismay when during the recent Olympic bid I was hearing people proclaim Chicago to be the greatest city in the world. I've also heard Houston, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Dubai, Tokyo and Shanghai are alone the greatest cities in the world. If you've ever spent even a short amount of time in the state of New Hampshire it's near impossible not to know that New Hampshire is "God's country" but step across the border into Vermont and people are quick to tell you, "No. Vermont is actually God's country." One might accept that there could be spillover between the two states but spillover can't possibly explain why "Tennessee is God's country." So is Alaska. I suggest everyone quickly buy up property in all of those states just to cover all of your bases. Bavaria, southern Germany, is also God's country, well Gott's country. 

    Then you have to love the word's from the mouths of college football coaches as they proclaim to the press on national television that they won the game because "God was on our side today." Really? What if you just beat Notre Dame or BYU? I thought God was on their sides. I also thought the under/over was something you bet on but I guess it's really hell/heaven that's at stake here.  

    I know I'm being over the top here but all of mankind needs to step back from our piousness and look outside ourselves at others who can be just as holy. I gave the following example yesterday. In college I was reading the Bible one day and read something about the number 10 being the number that described something I wanted in my life. I believe the line following it was "The wise will know this" which left me flopping in the wind. I had no idea why 10 was that significant number and I therefore was not wise. It was a quite a while ago and, not understanding the meaning I put it aside. I became a Buddhist years later and for a particular reason that passage came back to me but I could not remember where in the Bible I'd read it nor exactly what it had said. A few days ago I thought to ask a dear Christian friend of mine if she knew of a passage that mentioned the number 10 as describing holy men. She didn't but she told me that 10 in the Bible is the number of Perfect Redemption. That was it. In Buddhism 10 is the number of the life condition known as Buddhahood, a life condition of Absolute Happiness and Indestructible Wisdom, which while pervading everything remains Pure and Absolute and cannot be tarnished. 

    My point here is not to argue superiority among religions. It's to say that it's amazing how there are universal truths shared by many religions even though they are often explained in different ways. In fact they support one another. I don't feel threatened by that. On the contrary this adds more credence to those things we hold dear in our lives but sometimes can't prove, even to ourselves at those times when doubt arises. Jesus himself used different metaphors to explain to his followers so that they could experience the Holy Spirit but we wouldn't say that each new metaphor cancels out the ones that preceded it. 

    I was going to say something about happiness but I've already typed enough.




  • TheSutraDude@xanga

    I guess I will comment on happiness. I type a lot because topics such as these are very good and very important ones. 



    LeMepris commented above:


    "Happiness is the primary motivating force behind everything human beings do, including adopting a religion."

    That is so true. We look for partners because we think having one will make us happy. We go out with friends because we think they will make us happy. Kids even do drugs because they think that will make them happy or seen as being cool by peers which will also make them happy. The ones who are lucky enough realize quickly that narcotics do not make them happy at which point they stop taking them and search for other things, perhaps school work, that will make them happy. We chase after all kinds of pleasures in the search for happiness. This is not all bad if eventually the trials and lessons we learn, the disappointments we experience eventually lead us to look for something deeper in life. As I said above, Buddhism describes the state of Buddhahood as a realm of indestructible happiness and unshakable wisdom and although it pervades and in fact is innate in everything, it remains pure and untarnished by anything. I compared this to the Perfect Redemption my Christian friend told me is mentioned in the Bible. 

    "And we can do this by asking ourselves, “How will this affect me”, “How will this affect others”, and “Will this glorify God and please Him, or will it go against God and just please me?"

    Those are precisely the questions to ask. Happiness for oneself alone is shallow and brittle when you consider that we are inseparable from our environments. In our society so many of us go about searching for things that we think will make us happy with little regard to how our actions will effect others. We saw that in the self aggrandizing risks that were taken on Wall Street for the sake of personal wealth. I've done a lot of self centered things in my life and I can say that the actions that have brought real joy into my life have been things I've done for others. Sometimes they were actions that took a lot of time and sometimes they were just a few words of encouragement. Sometimes they were just listening to someone talk about a painful experience.

    I'll explain something from my Buddhist perspective and anyone who reads it can translate into their own perspective. In Buddhism we work on what we call our human revolution, a personal and shared process that involves challenging the obstacles and negativity in our own lives. To do this we tap into the above mentioned Buddhahood or Buddha Nature that exists within our lives and the lives of everyone and everything. By doing this consistently each day we build our spiritual muscle and we gradually learn how to make the state of Buddhahood the foundation of our lives, keeping it at the center of our lives. 

    This process does not remove one from the everyday world. On the contrary it necessitates that we are ever more present and that we create value in the world and here is an example of what I mean. If years ago I had been a football coach, knowing myself I would have been all about winning the game no matter what. I would have yelled at my players if they screwed up. I would have been happy as anything and gloating each time we won but miserable and angry any time we lost. Today however I would be a different coach. Getting the players to pull everything out of their lives, to challenge themselves to do their best to win would not only be a part of the game, it would be the game. Even when we lost I'd be proud of the players for their courageous efforts and I would make every effort to instill in them values like self respect and respect for others, courage and the spirit to never give up. My door would always be open to them. 

    My point is, both those coaches are me but where those coaches live inside of myself are very different places. In the financial world, if the decision makers on Wall Street realized the importance of other's happiness and made their decisions from that perspective our nation would be in better shape than it has ever been. Instead we are standing in the rubble we see around us today from which many are still struggling to recover. These very different perspectives exist in every human endeavor and effect the world in very different ways. Thus the importance of living our lives with true values and teaching our children by example and with words to live the same. Until we can do this there will continue to be disasters, both personal and collective. I believe this relates very directly to doing Gods' works. So we can and should look for partners. We can and should go out with friends. The important thing is how we regard and treat them and ourselves when we're together. 



  • Angelsdelight@xanga
    C'mon over

    I believe that true holiness come from inside. If you are not holy on the inside,it doesn't matter what you do on the outside,does it? I don't think that the Lord wants us to continually live in a state of unhappiness all the time. Life has its ups and downs but we are not supposed to stay in a valley and say that God made me to suffer this even to the point of it killing you spiritually. The person who left God for a women may not have been all that rooted in Christ in the first place. Lukewarmness.

  • Pastor_AndyG@xanga

    @mtngirlsouth@xanga - 1 Kings 20:35.  And I apologize, he didn't ask the man to sock him in the lip, but to strike him with his weapon.

  • FreeeVerse@xanga

    I think we're confused about "joy" and "happiness". They're quite different.

  • mtngirlsouth@xanga
  • thisisforkirsten@xanga
  • CyanideNGunpowder@xanga

    Sounds like you're childishly confusing happiness with gratification with the babysitter example.

  • jamoncita@xanga

    hm.. i think the problem is selfishness, not happiness.  happiness is not a sin, nor do i believe that it leads to sin.  selfishness and instant gratification are what i think leads people to do what is wrong only because it feels right.  i don't think people honestly believe instant gratification is the same as happiness.

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