Sunday, 04 October 2009
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Satanic Deception in Church: Is Your Jesus Real?
I want everyone out there to really think this one through. Give it some very hard, very long, and very thorough contemplation. The answer may be the difference between entrance to heaven or going to hell.Is your Jesus Real?
Lately I have been seeing something disturbing. Idols of Jesus. I'm not talking about silver crosses like the Catholics wear, bearing a beaten Jesus still hanging upon the cross. (get over it guys, He rose from the grave and is in Heaven already!) I'm not talking about statues or little plastic stick-on-your-dashboard glow-in-the-dark Jesus's. I'm not even referring to those ubiquitous pictures of an anglo-saxon Jesus looking off into the distance with perfect hair and admirable facial features. (Ummm, by Isaiah's estimation, there was nothing of which would make him of appeal to anyone.) No, none of these things are the focus of my thoughts.
Is your Jesus Real?
What I am asking is are you making a Jesus of your own design? Is he a political rebel, bent on helping you achieve national independence? Is he a Social reformer, who's main ideal is to refashion society into something more lasting and perfect? Is he a Universal expression of Love, something that no man will (or shall) reject in the end? Is Jesus an outlaw -- a peacemaker -- a troublemaker upsetting the sellers / buyers at the temple -- a psychological pitchman intent on making you feel better about yourself?
Is your Jesus Real?
Is there a reason I keep shoving that sentence in your face? Yes, because it's the most important question you have been asked in a while. I'm not asking you which of these particular facets of Jesus life appeal to you --- I'm asking you if you've remade / refasioned / reconstructed / rebuilt Jesus into something more palatible to you and your friends. Have you built yourself a Jesus by building up some qualities and downplaying others?
Is your Jesus Real?
I've encountered a lot of divergent theologies lately, most all of them bad. By bad I mean that these people THINK they are going to Heaven, but they have missed the ballpark by miles. Universal Salvation was the worst of the bunch, with several people expressing to me that there's no need to evangelize --- God is going to save everyone in the end. (I've heard this argument lately) The mildest form I've seen Jesus take was someone who wanted him to be merely a good teacher, someone who had the right idea about life and yet not someone to commit ourselves to in any sense ideological. (I've heard this argument lately) Between those two extremes I've seen many other approaches to Christ which leave out part of his ministry while strongly emphasizing something else.
Basically, all of these people have built themselves a god they can be comfortable with, a god they don't have to repent before, a god who's cool with their sins and the way they are ---- these people have rejected Christ in favor of an idol.
Is your Jesus Real?
Jesus specifically stated that he did not come into this world to judge the world, but that through him the world would have light. In that same passage, though, he said that men were already condemned by their rejection of him. If I play Jesus off as the lovable Savior, ignoring the bit about judgment, I can excuse myself from having to tell others about him --- cause hey, Jesus Loves Everybody. (I've heard this argument lately) I won't need to preach, because in the end, everyone gets saved. (I've heard this argument lately) Why tell someone else they are wrong when it really doesn't matter?
Is your Jesus Real?
Hell is real. Jesus preached about it, the Bible tells about it, and true followers of Christ KNOW about it. We know enough about it to care when we see someone else going there. The writer of Hebrew called scripture "active and alive, sharper than a two edged sword, able to cut through soul and spirit. It judges the desires and thoughts of man's heart." (4:12 Today's English Version) That means that God's Word is able to show truth --- able to define it, able to express it, and most of all, able to cut through the BullS**t people pass around as truth, which in reality is merely satanic lies bent upon deception.
In a recent discussion, someone tried to tell me that while the appreciate the bible, they believe that God has many ways, many paths that lead to him. I countered with John 14:6 "I am the way, the Truth and the Life --- NO MAN --- comes to the Father EXCEPT through me." Many paths? No, Jesus stated "Narrow is the path and few who find it, which leads to life." (Matt. 7:14) As I made this point, a Christian who was with me argued AGAINST me and my interpretation. (I've heard this argument lately) It broke my heart, but it really made me wonder...
Is your Jesus Real?
There is but one God. There is but one Christ. and you must --- MUST ---- accept him for who he is in full, not cutting away what you don't like and accepting the leftovers. If you don't, Hell awaits, not Heaven, for you have constructed an idol of your own design and you're not worshipping God "In spirit AND IN TRUTH" (Jesus words, John 4:24)
Are you accepting Him for who he is? Are you taking everything Jesus shows about himself and not just the parts you like? Are you willing to share Christ with others? And --- most importantly --- is your Jesus real, or merely a cardboard cut out paste-up with no eternal substance.
Only you can answer that question: Is your Jesus real?
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Comments (72)
i kind of love this post
Ok, I haven't even gotten past the 2nd paragraph, but...
"I'm not talking about silver crosses like the Catholics wear, bearing a
beaten Jesus still hanging upon the cross. (get over it guys, He rose
from the grave and is in Heaven already!)"
Seriously? You want to start off by offending the Roman Catholics in your readership (not to mention other denominations who have crucifixes) who love God? Why did you do this? "Get over it"? Get over the death of Jesus? Seriously?
@NightCometh@xanga - smirk. You tell her!
But I agree with your view of Christ. Just not slamming people who have crucifixes with such a shallow thing to say at the beginning. "Get over it" is such a rude phrase to say to any other human being.
I like your basic point -- question whether we've projected things onto our image of Christ. But you come across as being absolutely sure that you are completely correct and everyone else is wrong. Plank in the eye, my friend.
Two things.
-Good points with Jesus.
-Would that high horse of yours like a carrot?
@NightCometh@xanga - That is often the major flaw in devout theists. They may be educated about God, but remain ignorant about the people they preach to.
Amen. Thanks for this post, brother...
Adding here, I think the crucifix does have some value...Sometimes we as Protestants forget the suffering and shame Christ underwent for our salvation and we cheapen grace. We can't ever forget what our salvation cost our Savior. We are to preach Christ and Him crucified after all...yet also to remember on the third day He rose again and is now ascended into heaven and then sent His Holy Spirit to us...
I agree with most of your post, although I agree with @NightCometh@xanga in that the 2nd paragraph comes off pretty rude. (not that I am always the master of tact.)
It is all the rage to say that Jesus is a good example, maybe even a great leader, but it is far from popular to proclaim that He is the only way....unless we pick the part of Jesus that is most comfortable/politically correct/least offensive etc.
There are so many ideas about Jesus popping up all around us, and far too many have the purpose of dodging the least popular aspects of Christ's teachings.
But then I have seen the danger of Christians over-doing it when it comes to placing judgment on those who have some differing views concerning Christ and Salvation. For example, I know of people who have completely shunned their family because of Calvinist/Arminianism differences, declaring that the other side was preaching a false Christ. Along those lines I have heard all too often Christians doubting the salvation of others because the details of their understanding of Christ or the Gospel did not line up 100%. And I am not talking about merely knocking their theology a bit- I mean all out attacks using terms like "different Gospel" and "deception of Satan" because of issues like post-trib or foot washing.
None of us can grasp all of Christ's character, ministry or teachings the moment we convert, and failure to do so doesn't jeopardize our eternal standing. Our understanding of Christ will grow and transform as we grow closer to Him, but our salvation doesn't come through most accurately and thoroughly comprehending Christ and the Gospel.
There are certainly some non-negotiables-Christ, God in the flesh crucified for our sins, alive
today and the only way to the Father sums it up quite well for me, for those are the things Christ consistently taught/lived Himself.
that's history
@NightCometh@xanga - (A) I'm not female. Sorry, Julie Miller just happens to be my favorite Christian musician and JulieMillerFan was my Ebay monikor for 9 years when I was the top seller of Christian Music on Eby. It kinda stuck.
(B) the representation of Christ by the Catholics: Perpetual sacrifice via the Mass (because "It is Finished" obviously didn't mean just that), broken bloody & bleeding on the cross (when he's risen and reigning), Submission to his Mother Mary in all things heavenly and earthly (Cause Mary is Co-redemptrix with Christ --- yeah, right, since when?) is dead wrong. Sorry, but the truth is that greater men than I have pointed this out. (Charles Spurgeon called Roman Catholicism the greatest false religion known to man, and Martin Luther didn't just say the Pope represented the Anti-Christ, but that he WAS the Anti-Christ. By assuming papal infallability, he assumes the place of God.) Mary was a created being, a sinner like the rest of us, and just because the Pope calls her "Immaculate" (RE: Sinless --- Being born without sin so she could have a sinless child) does not MAKE it so. "IS YOUR JESUS REAL?" Point made.
(C) I'm not out to win brownie points. I'm here to speak truth. Truth divides (re: Hebrews 4:16) Truth also frees (John 8:32). It has many facets. Paul spoke out AGAINST those who would muddy the truth time and again and John stated that we shouldn't even invite them into our houses or greet them (2 John :10-11) --- and so why do we feel the need to cuddle up next to them for a nightcap and friendly debate? No Offense, but the very message of the gospel is "Scandolon" --- in greek "offensive" --- to those who are not believing in it. The wisdom of this world is NOT compatible with the wisdom of God's Word.
My very question in this post asks "Are you following the REAL Jesus" not just making up an idol you call Jesus. I ask this of everyone, not just Catholics. Mormons follow a false Jesus. Jehovah's Witnesses follow a false Jesus. Sadly, many, many protestants do as well. The real point is -- only the REAL Jesus will save you and help us to find freedom from our sins and forgiveness from God. Is your Jesus Real?
As to @CyanideNGunpowder@xanga - call it what you will, but those who are following Christ actually will have cause to rejoice in the end. My "High Horse" as you call it is a clarion call to one and all --- it is the same message that the epistles preach --- "Make EVERY effort to make sure your calling & election are true" (2 Peter 1:10) I have no need to apologize --- just as none of the preachers of Christ's Gospel ever had --- for presenting the truth.
Man o man was that post ordained of God Himself or what? Timely message indeed
@JulieMillerFan@xanga -
A) Never said or implied you were female.
B) Lets stick to what I said. I said it was rude to say "get over it" to people who had or used crucifixes at church, as if they were holding on to something that didn't matter. 1. Saying "get over it" is rude and insensitive to anyone, at any time. 2. This post wasn't about crucifixes or Catholics, so it seemed a bit out of place to insult people who were Catholic or had crucifixes. I did not nor will not make any arguments for the Roman Catholic church, because that's not what this post was about. If you'd like to slam the Catholic church, do it in a separate post perhaps.
C) Speaking the truth is great. But again, the point of this post was not crucifixes. I just thought the rudeness was out of place if you weren't going to go into detail with your theological arguments against crucifixes, and your main point was to say "Get over it" to people who may very well know and love Jesus Christ just as much as you.
@JulieMillerFan@xanga - // the representation of Christ by the
Catholics: Perpetual sacrifice via the Mass (because "It is Finished"
obviously didn't mean just that), broken bloody & bleeding on the
cross (when he's risen and reigning)//
You could ask St. Paul the same question when he refers to Christ as "Crucified" in 1 Cor. 1:23, or in 1 Cor. 2:2 - don't you think St. Paul, of all people, would know that Christ has already risen? Of course he does! So why does St. Paul refer to Christ as "Crucified"? Because he is highlighting a specific aspect of the nature of Christ's sacrifice - the crucifixion is highlighted to point out how much love Christ had for us that He was willing to put Himself upon the Cross. This is the same reasoning we use to support the use of the crucifix - we Catholics know that Christ has Risen from the dead - but His actions on Earth are physical representations of the results of a spiritual war that happened when Christ conquered the devil. Christ's sacrifice is regarded as a sacrament - an outside, physical symbol (Christ dying on the cross) that represents a spiritual change (Christ conquering death and sin). To imply that Catholics don't know Christ has risen by using the crucifix is intellectually dishonest at best.
//Submission to his Mother Mary in all things
heavenly and earthly (Cause Mary is Co-redemptrix with Christ --- yeah,
right, since when?) is dead wrong.//
On what basis do you say it's "dead wrong"? As for historicity - have a chat with the ECF Irenaeus (causa salutis, anyone?).
//Charles Spurgeon called Roman Catholicism
the greatest false religion known to man, and Martin Luther didn't just
say the Pope represented the Anti-Christ, but that he WAS the
Anti-Christ. //
Oh, that's right, since THEY say so, it must be TRUE, right? *dripping with sarcasm*
//By assuming papal infallability, he assumes the place of God.//
Do you know what constitutes as papal infallibility?
//Mary was a created being, a sinner like the
rest of us, and just because the Pope calls her "Immaculate" (RE:
Sinless --- Being born without sin so she could have a sinless child)
does not MAKE it so.//
So then can you explain why it's wrong?
//"IS YOUR JESUS REAL?" Point made.//
Besides revealing your ignorance of Catholic beliefs, you have yet to make the point regarding Catholics here.
@NightCometh@xanga - I didn't see the point of crucifixes having any thrust whatsoever. The exacting timeliness of this post is what mattered. (at least to me anyway)
@ShamelesslyRed@xanga - Maybe to you. But we don't all get riled by the same things, do we?
@NightCometh@xanga - No. We don't. But I agree that all too often we make Jesus into an idol of our choosing. For any shortcomings it may have, this post is dead on correct in it's over all point
I do believe in Jesus, but I also believe in the facts as history presents them. The Jesus I represent was no more than a humble man who made his living through honest manual labor. He started his life in the slums, being nothing more than a hand worker, and continued to live his life in this manner taking nothing for himself but giving everything to everyone. His underlying attributes, the very truth of his existence, however, is the very thing that made his deeds that much greater. He was a direct descendant, as one could quote from Matthew, of King David and Priest Aaron. Two of the most powerful figures in Jewish history aside from Abraham, Issac, Noach, Adam, and Eve. He was the rightful heir to the throne of Jerusalem and having the blood of a priest carried immense power. King Herod didn't care for it, which is why he was persecuted in the beginning.
At the age of 12, he disappears from Biblical lore only to reappear later as a fully grown man whose wisdom surpassed that of the temple priest. He continued to practice the old ways but saw how frugal they were. He began to see that setting rules and regulations without an actual purpose was a bit wrong.
Now, in the years of his absence, as gathered from the ideals he taught, one could venture a guess that he traveled east and met with the peaceful buddhist monks. There he picked up new ideas and incorporated them into his own beliefs from his culture.
Upon returning, he gathered unto him followers. 12 disciples who he would teach directly. From there, he would then head out and begin aiding the world, or at least his own people. The Jews had fallen into disparity. King Herod, his son, and the mighty Roman empire ruled with an iron clad fist. Their families had been laid waste to and nailed to crosses all along the path to Jerusalem. The people were even fearful to continue practicing the old ways and only did so in the cover of their homes. And here this man was, Jesus of Nazareth preaching a new way of approaching God. Telling them how best to act and to live. Explaining to them in a simple way so that they could understand. And who better to explain than a man who had lived it and still wore the scars on his hands?
Eventually, the more traditional Jews pleaded with the Roman Governor, Pilate. They were tired of his blasphemies. Word spread to Jesus about this and from here the story can go 2 ways. One, we can accept the Church approved version that Judas sought gold as payment to betray Christ, or we can allow for Judas Iscariot's version that he was asked by Christ to betray him. I would think the latter as I'm sure Jesus understood the concept of martyrism. He knew the only way for his teachings to survive was to give the people what they wanted. And so, he was "betrayed", brought to trial, and then hung on a cross.
Jesus, on that day, accepted the consequences of his actions. He gave the people one last lesson. Stand up for what you believe in or die trying. Accept the consequences of your actions, but do not fear them. Now, whether or not he performed miracles or rose on the 3rd day is left all to speculation. As I'm not an expert in matters of mysticism and magic, I can't even begin to verify this. However, I know that upon Jesus's death the church was supposed to have been founded and continued by Mary, Jesus' wife. Not Peter. This alone would have made a significant difference history-wise. Mary knew everything Jesus knew and was wholly devout in continuing in his footsteps. Peter, on the other hand, took advantage of his position of power, stole the glory from Mary, sought to begin a chain of persecution against women, and founded a church that mixed Judaic law with his own ideas of a new foundation for religion. Catholicism is a blasphemous organization to God and to the memory of Jesus. Their edicts, their laws, their councils held since the first council of Nycea have all been an attempt to subvert and control the massed. The very image of Christ has been skewed to fit their needs and his very ideas have practically been lost to the annals of history. And the madness doesn't end there because the Protestants, blind to the truth, have continued the very basic ideals of Catholics and so this defunct and false Christian religion has spread all about the face of the Earth.
This, is as much as I know to be true. Anyone can choose to dispute the facts as presented, but it was Peter who said he was the one who the church was to be founded on, not Christ. And even in the Gospel of Peter, he admits to being jealous of Mary because she was so close to Christ.
I thus leave you with this tiny conundrum: Were the church established by Mary and not Peter, in what way would the world be different today?
First, I must take issue with your statement "Get over it" concerning Jesus death on the cross as a focus. The Apostle Paul states that he focuses on Jesus and Him crucified. Yes, Jesus rose from the dead as an example of what believers will experience if the Rapture doesn't happen first. It is his shed blood and death on the cross that saves. So I believe meditation on Jesus being crucified is of inportance to any believer. Don't forget His passion and death. It is his crucifiction I keep in mind when I pray. Also, God is light, in Him there is no darkness at all. And God is everywhere, so there is light everywhere. Even where outer darkness dwells God is there. Remember Jesus is the light. He came that man might be saved through Him.
My Jesus is real. I accept Him as my God and friend. I accept His life as a man. Someone who had to do all the things I have to do in life. Someone who is well aquainted with suffering. Someone who gets angry when I sin and the only person who can forgive my sins. Someone who was whipped to pay for my healing. My salvation is real. If I doubt my forgiveness and redemption then what kind of salvation is it? I know without a doubt Jesus loves me. I have a personal relationship with Him and His love endures forever. He has given me a life full of happyness and reassurance and it is well with my soul. I know when I fall short it hurts Him. I can feel His disappointment. Then His Holy Spirit leads me to repentance, if I will only follow.
Let's tear down your argument against Catholicism point by point.
"the representation of Christ by the
Catholics: Perpetual sacrifice via the Mass (because "It is Finished"
obviously didn't mean just that), broken bloody & bleeding on the
cross (when he's risen and reigning),"
Does "Do this in memory of me" ring a bell?
Catholic Churches do (or should) have the crucifix dead in the center of the back of the church for everyone to see that Christ came to earth to die for our sins. At the foot of the cross is the tabernacle, which contains the bread and wine that will become Jesus' Body and Blood, not just a mere symbol. This placement shows that "Christ HAS died. Christ IS risen, and Christ WILL come again." Christ comes to earth in the humble form of bread and wine millions of times at every Catholic mass every day. The Eucharist isn't the focal point of the Mass for anything!
"Submission to his Mother Mary in
Charles Spurgeonall things heavenly and earthly (Cause Mary is Co-redemptrix with
Christ --- yeah, right, since when?) is dead wrong. Sorry, but the
truth is that greater men than I have pointed this out. (
called
Roman Catholicismthe greatest false religion known to man,"
Jesus never refused Mary anything she asked of HIm. (See Wedding of Canna.) He was obedient to her because, well, she is His Mother, and Jesus was obedient to God's Word. "Honor your father and mother."
Charles Spurgeon was the greatest liar know to man other than Satan himself if he's going to talk like that.
" and
Martin Lutherdidn't just say the Pope represented
the Anti-Christ, but that he WAS
the Anti-Christ.
By assuming papal infallability, he assumes the place of God.)"
Do you really think that if the pope was the Anti-Christ, God would have let it last over two thousand years?
Matthew 16:18-19
"And so I say to you, you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
-Peter is the only disciple to receive the key to heaven.
-If Jesus didn't intend to build His church on Peter, why did Jesus call him "rock" and change his name? The only time Jesus changed anyone's name was to signify a change in vocation.
-Peter is first in every listing of the Twelve Apostles, even though he wasn't the first called.
-Peter is the only apostle to be ordered by Jesus to feed His lambs and tend his sheep. John 21:15-17.
-Peter is the only apostle that Jesus personally prayed for his own faith to not fail and Jesus tells him to strengthen his brothers. Luke 22:31-32
-Peter acted as spokesman for the apostles countless times in Acts.
-There is an unbroken line of popes since St. Peter
-The pope has never made a decree that contradicted Sacred Scripture or Tradition.
Even if the pope isn't infallible, Jesus instructed us to be obedient to authority, and the pope is in a position of authority.
"Mary
Immaculatewas a created being, a sinner like the rest of us, and just because the
Pope calls her "
"
(RE: Sinless --- Being born without sin so she could have a sinless
child) does not MAKE it so. "IS YOUR JESUS REAL?" Point made."
How else could Mary give birth to a sinful child if she was not sinless herself? Would you place Jesus in a filthy bed? I think not!
I never read past your second paragraph. Cutting down your readers is no way to get the message across.
jesus sure is real to me. i saw him at the laundromat with the rest of the day laborers.
It may be understood from the digs at Catholicism that the OP is Protestant. If Protestants know who the "Real Jesus" is why are there tens of thousands of Protestant sects? Which of all these sects knows which one is the "Real Jesus".
If Protestants really knew who the "Real Jesus" was there would only be one Protestant sect. But alas, this is not the case.
Jesus demanded unity in his Church. Yet, by its very nature Protestantism is divisive. How can any honest person call themself a follower of Christ and yet believe in doctrines that by their nature breed endless division, (which goes against the Gospel teachings of Christ)?
All other doctrinal differences aside, the fact that Protestantism is by nature divisive, invalidates it as a way to know the "Real Jesus". For the real Jesus preached unity.
Simple reason informs us that in order to claim discipleship one must follow the teachings of the master. Consequently, if the master demands unity but the disciple goes out and preaches doctrines that bring disunity, then the disciple preaches his own doctrine, not the doctrine of the master.
@JulieMillerFan@xanga - I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the high horse comment had absolutely nothing to do with the content of your post. I'm basing this on the fact that cyanideNgunpowder commends your thoughts on Jesus before asking if your high horse wants a carrot. Thus it has nothing to do with you saying (your perception of) the truth. It has everything to do with you being an arrogant son of bitch*. I mean, you did just compare yourself to Paul and claim to be on the same level as him and the epistles, which if we go with the theory that Paul was educated by Christ himself at Petra, then I'm pretty sure what you just said is borderline blaspheme. Interestingly enough, you completely ignored the entirety of the epistles written by Peter....Point being your post is a great reminder about searching the Bible for the Truth about Jesus rather than making him who we want him to be, but it has so much condescension, patronizing, tactlessness, and such a general holier-than-thou feel that it's hard to get past all that.
Far be it from me to ever say "Don't preach the truth," but there's nothing wrong with using a little tact. Also, what makes you think that YOUR Jesus is the REAL Jesus?
*I apologize to anyone who is offended by my use of this phrase, but really, the English language lacks a non-profane word that means the same thing.
this post lost all credibility after the attack on Catholicism. i'd like to turn your own question back around on you: is YOUR Jesus---the Jesus who apparently is fine with Christians speaking that way to each other---real? if so, it's no surprise that people would want to try to make him appear more loving.
@JulieMillerFan@xanga - Regarding Mary as Immaculate:
Could a sinful woman have conceived the very Son of God in her womb? Could the blood of a sinful human being have nourished the growing Christ without touching him with impurity? If in the Old Testament God demanded that he be borne about in as perfect a vessel as possible, lined with gold and Israel's finest, would not the Ark of the New Covenant, bearing the New Law, the New Priesthood and the Manna from Heaven be held to even higher standards?
And being that Jesus Christ needed to be raised by someone, would you entrust the upbringing of the Christ Child to a sinner? Certainly Christ was free of the Original Sin, but what about the sin that we learn as we live and grow? If Mary was a sinner, regardless of her virtue, she would not have been able to teach him to be sinless, unless she was sinless herself. Sin begets sin.
Just a few things to think about, besides going back through the history of the Church (centuries before the Reformation even) and studying what Christians believed regarding Mary (among other things). Please, if you ever would like to discuss the Catholic Church or would like to know something, feel free to stop by.