Jesus says.. "Peace I give you My peace I leave you"... But as so manyy times, only that part is used in liturgy,,, for He goes on to say, "Not as the world gives give I unto you.." and " I come not to bring peace but a sword." His ways are not the world's ways, ever.

False hope is better then no hope right? 

@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - That "false" hope might be more real than you give it credit for. I will pray for you. God bless!

Ancient_Scribe... I appreciate your thoughts, but that was not my meaning at all at all. We live beyond what you refer to. We live Jesus every day, every breath is taken for Him. Loving Jesus is an everyday and all day work for us.The world's views of peace and the reality of the truth of Jesus are two vastly differently things. At the end of mass the words are, to go in peace to love and serve the Lord. Out beyond the Church, loving all as He does, serving all as He does. Read Nehemiah...and above all read Jesus. How many verses re Communion? How many more of the way we love and live every day and in all things. Serving is our peace, because Jesus asks that of us in our love. 

@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - I wasn't trying anything regarding guilt or pity; I would never assume that, and I'm sorry if that has been your general experience of religious people so far. I was only saying that your hope, as false as it may feel, may be more real than you realize, given the difference between perception and reality.

@AnchoressNun@xanga - I'm sorry about the mix-up; I meant to offer the Eucharist as an example of the peace of Christ being also difficult to reconcile with the world's idea of peace. I am very much in agreement with you, about an all-day, every-day loving of Jesus; really a living of Jesus, I suppose. The Eucharist for me, among many things, instills in me a desire to live and love like Christ, to become like him. If the Eucharist is simply something we have to come to Church to "get," and then we leave until we come back to "get it again," then I think we have failed to grasp the point of such an amazing and beautiful gift. I suppose you might say that my hope is that I can "get out of his way," and let him be with his people wherever they are, whoever they are, and enjoy being there with him and with them.

It transformed me silently, I cannot describe this in words, but people see the changes in my character.

@Ancient_Scribe@xanga - I understand exactly what you are saying. Thank you. I do not want to spend 5 pages explaining my position so I will make it extremely short. I was a christian/theologian. I know the religion/relationship/bible inside and out better then 95% of all ministers protestant or catholic. I was protestant/reformed/postmill/prepositional(in my apologetics)/theonomist.

There is not one angle I have not seen heard or experienced. Not one! I rejected the faith when I finally figured out the bible was not infallible and was full of error. I smelled the rat and was pissed I was lied to. It seriously is a slippery slope, there is no way to get around that. If the bible/church/pope etc was true and completely free of error I would follow it to a T.

I appreciate your effort, really I do. Thank you. But anything that is said to me at this point is a repeat that I have heard many times and I consider it an extreme insult on my intelligence. And BELIEVE me I have done the who relationship fuzzy wuzzy fall in love with my lover boy jesus thing as well. Thank you and "bless you".

P.S. I think you know where I was coming from with the guilt/pity thing. If not I will be happy to explain that to you. Peace.

@monobeam@xanga - I have more peace now then I ever did when I believed a walking talking snake stole the universe. Thinking for yourself is much more difficult then collectivism, yet MUCH MORE rewarding.

The politics/guilt/pity statement went right over your head completely. As is would 99% of christians.

http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Guilt-Pity-Rousas-Rushdoony/dp/1879998076

I feel sorry for you cow. Muuuhhh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality

@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - But not all hopes are false, and the hope Christians have faith in is not necessarily false, keep an open mind on this. No guilt no pity, pure advice only. You won't know unless you have died once and miraculously came back to life, and then you may tell us about it. Otherwise, if you just die and never come back to life again (which is normal), you will still know but you cannot tell us anymore. I read about Near-Death experiences and I have never heard of any NDE or ODE person saying that our consciousness just disappear after death... They almost all experienced at least something they have never experienced in their lifetime... 

I am God's beloved. Knowing that I am loved that much and beyond is the ultimate peace because I don't have to seek out any lesser source of love. I can go straight to the source that animates everything and experience deeper love in my relationships because I can know that love in everything.

p

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- Revelife

Folks, I've been posting a lot on this subject at Revelife. I'm a Buddhist. I could be wrong of course but I truly believe that Jesus was like a coach showing people how to throw a football. I don't think his hope was that everyone would stand on the sideline watching him throw passes while we all ooh and ah. If that is what he wanted to do I don't think he would have bothered explaining anything to anyone. He was showing the way to throw the football. Never getting out there, never throwing the football, never developing our spiritual muscles will never lead to us being able to throw touchdowns. We do live through a glass darkly but we can polish that glass and see clearly in this life. If we can't see clearly in this life, if we don't even try, why should we expect to see clearly in the next? If you cannot see clearly in this life, how do you know any decision you make in life is the correct one, even spiritually? There is a way and Jesus pointed to it. I don't believe he ever said, "This is the way but you can't do it". What I hear even by typing that is Nelson from The Simpsons saying "ha ha". That is not what Jesus was doing at all. We stand around and watch Jesus drink when he was telling us to drink as he did, thus we remain thirsty and lost. Just my two cents. Start thinking of him as a flesh and blood human being who knew the essence and purpose of life. If we don't we are like people who by praising Steven Hawking will become physicists in the next life. 

Look, we need to take responsibility for our lives. Handing our lives over to Jesus is not doing that. It's escapism. Jesus on the other hand told people how to live truly. Nobody has to walk around barefoot or die on a cross today. Imitation is not what it's about. Everyone has a unique mission in life and Jesus set the guidelines for fulfilling those missions. Every time Jesus showed love or compassion toward someone there was a reason. Every time he showed angry criticism toward someone there was a reason. Neither was born from favoritism or hatred. All of his words were out of compassion. All were meant to set the course straight. I once read that in the early days of space exploration a rocket constantly adjusted its course on the way to the moon. If it was off by a 1/1000 of an inch on takeoff and did not adjust its course it would miss the moon by 10,000 miles...or something like that. Jesus knew the point of departure and knew the destination. He was constantly adjusting the courses of the people he spoke to but the important point is that he never told us to stand on the ground and marvel at the liftoff. He was teaching everyone how to fly. He saw society at the time and told his disciples that they would do greater deed than he. Was he cracking a joke to rub their faces in the futility of their lives? I don't think so. Anyone who thinks that simply believing in Jesus will save them is at a standstill and misses the point of his teachings about life and is missing life itself. Truly belief in Jesus means actually getting out onto the field of play and developing from there. Football...a great sport if you ask me. 

I don't want to get in peoples' faces here. I respect the sincerity of people at Revelife. You are good people for sure. It just pains me to see you squandering yourselves over sin and guilt when you are noble people who seek the truth. The truth is there for all to grab. Strike me dead if Jesus would not have thought similarly. Heaven knows he would want you to grasp what he grasped...and you can.

@ChevalierSeingal@datingish - You get a lot of mileage out of the snake, but we Christians are summed up by who we follow -- Christ -- not by a snake.  Did you really give Jesus a chance?

In the end, though, unless a person sees a problem with the universe, with the way we fight each other and act so irrational in this age of reason, the way we want to nurture our ego... unless we need something to be fixed, then all religion seems unnecessary.  Create your own peace, live happily ever after.  Amen -- oops, can't say that.