Wednesday, 23 September 2009

  • Bible Study Reflections on Genesis 4: The Murder of Abel

    Bible Study Reflections: Genesis 4 To read Genesis 4 click here.

    This passage is incredibly interesting. So first here are some observations without my input of illustrative details or outside talk:
    Cain and Abel are two different types of people in terms of their occupation--what they do, for livelihood. One works with vegetation, another with moving organisms. One offered to God the firstfruits--the best of his labor, the other is recorded to have simply offered some of his labor to God. God favored and showed this favor upon the one who gave the best of his labor--who is Abel, not Cain. Cain felt ill natured about this, and God confronted him about it. God also warned him of sin, which already existed--and the relationship that man has with sin: sin desires man, but man must command and take control of sin. Cain still felt resentment, so he killed his brother Abel.

    From an earlier reading of former chapters, we remember that due to Adam's sin, God cursed the ground, but this did not mean that God's relationship with the ground was completely severed. The ground would simply be harder for man to work.However, for Cain individually, the ground would become even harder to work because he spilt his brother's blood into it. God marked Cain so that whoever would lay a ill-natured hand on him would feel God's vengeance in seven times the magnitude of the original murderous sin's consequences. God would take the vengeance, Cain would not, nor anyone else for Cain.

    What's interesting is that later, Lamech killed a man for doing him wrong (basically insulting him). It is not written what happened that caused Lamech such hatred and desire for claiming vengeance for himself, but obviously he rethought the whole incident since he brought together his two wives to claim God's vengeance for himself. Lamech claimed God's vengeance for himself, saying that others would be retributed up to seventy-seven times the magnitude by God, as God would do for Cain. God did not claim this for Lamech himself, rather Lamech told his wives it would be that way.

    Another interesting thing to note is the land of Eden which is named here. Cain was driven away, to the east of this land called Eden. People often refer to the Garden of Genesis as the Garden of Eden--but there is no textual evidence that garden was indeed in Eden. This is something that people have fabricated due to botched memories of putting together readings in ways they were never written.

    It is also written, to take note of, that with the birth of Enosh men began to call on the name of the Lord. until then, there is no conversation noted between God and men--besides the conversations God held with Cain to confront him, warning about sin, and then later to confront him of the sin committed and punish Cain. The punishment is both terrible, yet merciful. While the ground is more resilient to Cain, Cain has a mark on him that is both cursory and saving; if others mark him or kill him, they will pay for it seven times over. The mark is like a warning sign, that keeps Cain safe to a certain degree, but other blessings, like the land's willingness to work with him, is taken away.

    One last thing to note: Adam laid with his wife after Cain was cursed and Abel killed. Also, after a genealogy of six generations was produced starting with cain. we can only imagine adam and eve's ages. but regardless, they are both of fruitful body and able to birth.

    So since Adam and Eve lay together and conceive---at what age uncertain---the sense of time for those first generations of people is vastly different from our conceptions of time and age/lifespans. People wonder about incestuous relations and what not. Think of how many people must have been born! Think about the wives for Lamech, which two are recorded, how are they related to Lamech? Apparently it does not matter, since all the people ever born are not recorded here. But to recognize this puts into perspective that putting the Bible entirely to conformity with our current world, and our standards, and our normatives does not work. Putting it into historical context, and literal context, makes this more than apparent. So to demand such things as updating the Bible's meanings to fit our needs, our interests, and our times, is rather ridiculous. We never do that with regular novels, why do that with a religious text? Let it speak for itself.

    We see that even in early times, pre-history (pre-written history) people liked to make things mean whatever way they wanted it to. Lamech said something to his wives that God himself did not declare. God only declared the curse (which had an element of protection in it via God's vengeance) for Cain. God did not speak aloud the curse for Lamech. Lamech assumed it for himself, but it does not mean that is what God explicitly means or stated for himself. It is just what man constructed, fabricated on his own.

    Again, I conclude my entry with this statement, as I have with the former entries:
    In my first entry for this adventure, I laid my position of not being a theologian etcetera and I'd just like to echo this statement. I open up my post to comments from other Bible-Readers

    What is your reaction to this passage? Thoughts?

Comments (10)

  • Roadkill_Spatula@xanga

    What you said about people making things mean whatever they wanted to started with Adam and Eve. Eve said God had said not to touch the fruit, but what God had told Adam was not to eat it. So either Adam or Eve presumably added the "do not touch" part, making God appear more controlling than he actually was.

  • monobeam@xanga

    Good post.  Interesting how consistent human nature is -- they were not different, just earlier (they are one of us).  So, too, Jesus is one of us.  In one sense, our Christian journey is one of a return to the beginning.  

  • Red_Apocalypse_Horse@xanga

    One of the all-time favourites RTS game, Command&Conquer, made use of Genesis 4 to explain the origins of the archvillain of the series, Kane. This Kane is the same as the biblical Cain, and the curse was to wander the earth (immortality) in the land of nod (from there, came the Brotherhood of Nod).


    Game story aside...


    Also, the early humans would have no choice but have incestous relationships in order to further the human race. Apparently according to genetics, this was still okay biologically because the genes of the early humans were still almost perfect. Today, children born out of incest often suffers from genetic disorders because human genes have accumulated so much "copying errors" since Eden, and it's more likely that siblings have the same gene defects.

  • nyclegodesi24@xanga

    i was thinking of doing a reflection on John 11 one day, but didn't want to steal from what you're doing. there's so much in it.

  • ellicepark@xanga

    @nyclegodesi24@xanga - dude dont even sweat it. theres no such thing as "stealing" when youre pursuing the same thing... as brothers and sisters in christ, i encourage you all the more to seek deeply into the word :] the only shadow of a reflection we have of God in text--

  • God_sPeace@xanga

    I see parallels to the story of Job with Cain.
    God shows restraint and mercy once again.
    With Cain it is in giving him a mark that protected him from his enemies.
    With Job it was in not letting the Devil kill Job.
    It's kind of a stretch I suppose.
    But my point is that God is not a God of cruel and unsual punishments.
    He is a kind, loving and gentle God who doesn't like to see us suffer.

  • AngelBeast777@xanga

    It is interesting to note that God's love for Cain didn't die with his murderous act, since He still showed him favor with the mark.


    I'm curious.  Has anyone heard a fleshing out of why Able's gift was better than Cain's?  Is it because one develops a relationship with animals that cannot be build with vegetation and, therefore, Able was giving more from his heart, especially giving the firstborns?  Anyone, anyone?

  • togodsownglory@xanga

    I'm amazed: reading Genesis and stating:


    So since Adam and Eve lay together and conceive---at what age uncertain---the sense of time for those first generations of people is vastly different from our conceptions of time and age/lifespans.


    Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat (a son) in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth;


    The Biblical years are viewed as 360 days. (If you want to argue about days vs. millenia or such... I couldn't care about such stupidity less.) The difference seems to be a literal change some time during or after the Flood. The concept of a 360 day year continues well into the Old Testament and from a practical viewpoint becomes a dichotomy between historical truth and current situation, from my understanding.


    As to incest:


    Several relationships in the Bible are noted as being 'incestuous' - Abraham and Sarah (half siblings), Isaac and Rebecca (cousins of some close degree), Jacob and Leah and Rachel (again close relatives).


    As to IMPLIED incest:


    Noah's children had no-one else to marry. The first several generations after the Flood must be defined by intermarriage.


    Unless you believe in seperately created humans (by which you must also impute Adam's sin to them by some occult means), you MUST assume the first several generations after creation be defined by intermarriage.


    The problem is a cultural and biological one:


    1. Culturally, incest has been wrong since the situation was defined as a wrong by God to Moses, who then wrote it into the Pentatuch (1st 5 books of the Bible).


    1a. Such in-family relationships would not be wrong, if the people kept to the Christian precept of love - caring for another's well-being rather than self-interest. Today incest is more a situation of sexual self-gratification using the closest and easiest to control persons as outlets. A true marriage between siblings would not have a damaging social side, unless the people involved were forcing the issue, or those directly involved or their host culture thought it wrong.


    2. Biologically, incest is wrong because of increased production of progeny with unhealthy recessive genes becoming dominant recessives. Things that caused the European aristocracy problems like bleeding disease, increased incidence of dementia, etc.


    2a. Such genetic recessives would not be an item for discussion close to creation - Adam and Eve's children would have been the strongest, fastest, smartest, able-est (I noticed it, and left it in, hope you noticed it and forgive me.) people ever. They would have made the best of us look weak and sickly, especially if you take into consideration the life-span differential. Nearly-perfect genes and nearly-perfect environment. Not much chance for mutations to do damage. The same situation at the flood - roughly 10 generations from Adam, genetic blurring a minimum, the environment much less positive, though. By the time of Moses, most families have had 30 or more generations from Adam, and have been inter-marrying locally, producing and promoting more strong negative genetic patterns.


    I think that God shut down incest for biological reasons, rather than socio-cultural. A family that truly cares for the well-being of their children would not harm the children. Only in uncaring or hateful situations would incest such as our culture sees happen.


    From a merely situation-based view:


    Incest between parents and children is wrong even from the basis of one man one woman. ( An very important but somewhat seperate religious issue.)


    Incest between children of the same parents is only wrong from the biological, or if the situation is hurtful to one or both of the children. (If it weren't for the biological, I personally don't think that God would have shut this option down. The only social / emotional harms come from undue pressures from uncaring family members - misuse or abuse in another form.)

  • ellicepark@xanga

    @togodsownglory@xanga - i honestly have no idea what you're trying to say--whether you're trying to incite an argument or if you're just saying the thoughts that you had when you read genesis 4, or something else. i know that i just wrote what i noticed from genesis 4 on a literal basis, and then made some extra comments which i categorize explicitly as to whether it's in my imagination, or things that i've interpreted, or just things i'm trying to make sense of via basic logic.

  • goodnessgraceness@xanga

    "So to demand such things as updating the Bible's meanings to fit our
    needs, our interests, and our times, is rather ridiculous...Let it
    speak for itself."

    Great point--something our society really needs to hear!

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