In a recent comment, Xanga's resident Theologian suggested that objecting to Christianity because the doctrine of hell seems cruel is like objecting to mathematics because it is too rigid and unbending.
I understand the idea. Reality is what it is, and your feelings don't make a whole lot of difference. But at the same time, whether hell is a place of conscious torment is not the same kind of fact as 2+3=5. It is not self-evidently true, and we could imagine it being otherwise. In fact, in the case of hell,
there is no one section in the Bible from which our beliefs are culled. Instead, we construct our image of the afterlife from numerous sections, some of them quite poetic.
What we end up with is a range of possible interpretations.
1.
Hell is eternal conscious torment. This is probably the most common view held by evangelicals. It is also the most strongly objected to by Christians on moral grounds.
2.
Hell is self-inflicted suffering. In this view, made popular by C. S. Lewis in works like
The Problem of Pain, those in hell choose to be there rather than with God the same way an alcoholic chooses alcohol over his own health. There is suffering, but it is not inflicted by God in retribution for sins committed, but is the natural result of choosing anything other than God.
3.
Hell is annihilation. In this view,
eternal judgment is not eternal in its duration, but in its consequences. Rather than forever torturing those who will not or cannot be rehabilitated, God simply unmakes them.
4.
Hell is empty. Finally, it is not impossible for a Bible-believing Christian to hold that all humans will eventually be saved. The letters of Paul support this view the most, with statements like, "All who died in Adam will be made alive in Christ." Proponents of this view often hold to the idea that things aren't necessarily settled when we die, and that there is still room for moral and spiritual change in the "afterlife," an idea Lewis explored in The Great Divorce. In addition to the range of possibilities over what Hell actually is, scripture is not explicit about who will be there. Again, we have a range of plausible interpretations.
1.
Only those who have heard and accepted the gospel will be saved. This is perhaps the most common Christian view, and the one usually assumed by non-believers.
2.
Some may be saved through Christ without knowing they are saved through Christ. Some Christians point to Biblical passages that claim that, "God has not left himself without a witness," and the concept of general revelation, as well as general fairness, to argue that those who are in no position to hear or accept the gospel may be saved nonetheless on the basis of how the responded to the revelation they did have. This could be applied to the
very young, the mentally handicapped, those who have not heard the gospel and those who have very legitimate reasons for rejecting the gospel they did hear, whether that means because of intellectual objections or because of inhumanity committed by those entrusted with the message.3.
Some may have a chance to accept the gospel after their death. Because scripture consistently presents God as desiring that all be saved, and portrays Christ as having conquered death and as holding the keys to death and Hades, some interpreters question why death should be a barrier to a person's salvation. Several passages also seem to imply that acceptance or rejection of God can take place in the afterlife.
4.
All might be saved. Some interpreters have argued that the passages describing hell may only describe what it is we are being saved from. Nobody necessarily has to go there. Not all Christians accept Christian universalism as orthodox, but universalists argue that it is predicated on the same logic as Calvinist accounts of predestination, only with the conclusion that God has chosen all to be saved, rather than a few.
Christians definitely disagree over which of these best fits the full testimony of scripture, but these are the biblical possibilities.
Which of these views is closest to your own? Which ones seem least likely to you? How does each of these views reflect on God's character? -NDSR
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Comments (88)
As to what Hell is, I am very much about the #2. Over and over again, in depictions of Hell in Scripture, you get this depiction of Hell being "outside." The phrase repeated in the parables is "Depart from me, I never knew you." The Westminster Catechism defines Hell as a place or state of separation from God. That is the torment of Hell--the absence of God. And in the absence of God, the self rages unchecked. Hell is the Self left to its own devices.
And it's freely chosen. Scripture says that God is not willing that any should perish--but he will not thwart our free will. In the end, if we insist on choosing our own way over the way that he's provided, he will let us do so--even to our own torment. Hell is not God-inflicted, it is self-inflicted--the natural consequence of rejecting God.
As to who goes to Hell, I lean towards #2 or even (*gasp!*) #3. One or the other--I don't know which. But here is what I do know.
--Jesus said (and Peter later echoed) that no-one comes to God except via Jesus. We require Jesus' sacrifice to be reconciled to God, to undo our current separated state.
--Do we need to fully understand the Cross to benefit from it? Not necessarily. Do you think that the thief on the cross beside Jesus understood that Jesus was deity, that his death was an atoning sacrifice, etc.? I doubt it. Yet going on what he did know, he put his trust in Jesus. And Jesus promised him that he'd be in Paradise--perhaps one of the only persons in all of Scripture that we are told for sure made it to heaven.
--God is infinitely just. And while this means that he cannot be reconciled to us in our fallen sinful condition, it also means he will take into account how much we knew, and what we did with what we DID know. Jesus said: "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows." (emphasis mine) I don't know exactly what this means in terms of the afterlife and judgment, but it tells us this much: God's rulings are fair. He takes into account how much of his will you were aware of.
In light of all this, I am forced to consider either that some who had not heard the gospel will achieve heaven (THROUGH the Cross, even though they had not heard or did not understand the Cross, because they go on what they know and choose Jesus in whatever form they understand Jesus to be), or that everyone somehow gets an equal opportunity to choose Jesus as a vehicle for reconciliation with God (perhaps even after death, for all I know).
One thing is for certain--that though God desires for all people to be saved, that is not the case. #4 is off the table: Jesus said that the way to salvation is narrow, and the way to destruction is broad.
I'm hoping that when I die there is an ongoing battle between angels and demons. That would be sweet.
punishment only makes sense when one can learn from the experience. and one can only demonstrate learning through a second chance to act correctly. if Hell is eternal, it's not punishment.
i also don't believe you can truly reject something without knowing 100% what it is you're rejecting. Christians seem to hate admitting it, but only one denomination can be right. can someone be blamed for rejecting incorrect doctrine? and who's to say that any denomination has gotten it 100% right at all?
i'm not agnostic because i've encountered God and rejected Him.... i don't think i've had anything that could be considered a genuine experience of God. if i never have that, how can that be rejection?
I would like to see the scripture that points to being saved after death.
All of these are possible. I believe hell is separation from God, love and good. For the people who might have to go there the experience will be a little less than they deserve. The fire of hell will be a spiritual fire; I don't think anyone will physically burn for a moment. If anyone goes there it will be because they have rejected God's gift. If you wanted to give something to someone, like your love, wouldn't you want them to accept it? God doesn't want anyone to be condemmed to hell but in some cases He might have to send some there. If a person keeps intentionally sinning by hurting others and they have let that become so ingrained in their nature to the point where they try to hurt God then how can God let that person into heaven knowing they will do that there? As far as not ever experiencing God - God has done His part. He invites everyone to come to Him and receive His gift. Then a person will experience Him. In Hell, they will eventually get what they wanted, however hideous that may be.
i agree with the views of 1 and 2 of what hell is. i believe that it is the seperation from God along with the fact that there will be a physical burning and gnashing of teeth. i mean although it was a parable, one dude was like go back and warn my family, and basically begging for one drop of water. needless to say, whether it is physical or spiritual pain, it is gained through genuine and intentional unacceptance of God's gift and love of Jesus Christ.
@sugartomyhoney@xanga - The consequence of sin is death. Being saved from the effects of our sins is being saved now and after death. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was dieing as well. He accepted Jesus and then Jesus said to him that today you will be with me in the kingdom of heaven. We are told that after death comes the judgement. Those who are saved in this life will be saved in the next. God's love endures forever. If we are not saved after death and only for this life then what was it for? I have a notion people sin throughout their whole lives intentionally without any personal consequences but without Jesus in their heart they will not be forgiven.
#2 is very interesting. I think that is what I believe, it was very well conveyed in this post.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I believe hell, whatever it actually is, is more than just a punishment.
It is the natural consequential end to rebellion against God. I would say "punishment" begins in this lifetime(mortality, deterioration,etc), and we are given opportunity to learn from our inability to live
Holy lives, before our punishment reaches its ultimate end.
@designandart@xanga - the passage of scripture you mention has nothing to do with being saved after death. I took the post to be saying if you don't accept Christ as your Savior now on earth, no fear you can do it after you die. And that is just not true.
@sugartomyhoney@xanga - Okay, I misunderstood. I think there might be a chance to accept Jesus after death; what about those who die without ever hearing the gospel?
@designandart@xanga - I don't think God addresses that in His Word. At least not that I know of. Maybe some one else can find something. But if it is not addressed the best we can say is we don't know. In our human perspective it would seem unfair, if there is not a provision for those people, however, God is our creator and His word does say, He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. He is the potter we are the clay, He can do what He wills. And we as humans don't know everything or see the beginning from the end. We have to trust HIm because He is God and we are NOT.
I would recommend the book 23 Minutes in Hell.
@FKIProfessor@xanga - I wouldn't. While the depictions of hell may or may not be accurate is besides the point; my issue with that book is that it's just impossible for any human being to physically go to hell and then return from it. It was either an extremely vivid dream that he had, or he just made the whole thing up.
I think I lean more towards possibility #2. One of my friends explained it to me this way: since God created the earth, He is responsible for everything in it that is good, things that we enjoy, like food, laughter, companionship, etc. So conversely, hell must be the absence of everything that is good, since God does not dwell there. Hell is full of all the things that made us suffer in this lifetime: loneliness, heartache, isolation, and perhaps physical suffering as well.
I just thought that was a really interesting way of looking at it.
When I die my consciousness will cease forever. Even if there is a spirit inside (which I have doubts on) it would not be "me", would not be able to feel physical pain and would in fact have to be an entirely different sort of being I can't even imagine what such an existence would be like. The very list offered by the OP only suggests to me that even within the Bible there is no straight answer that makes sense and does not contradict the others. Its all open to whatever 'feels' the most right to whoever reads it. W/e I am not worried about it. If what I grew up with is correct, I have been doomed for hell for a long time. I fail to see any reason to believe one theory over any other as there is no method of determining the truth of the theories - you know, until you die. Which I "feel" is likely much like existence before being born - i.e. non existence.
As far as conception of Hell, I'm somewhere between 2&4. By no means to I think Hell is empty, but I would definitely agree that Hell is God leaving everyone to ourselves and letting us live with the consequences and non-fulfillment of living for ourselves.
In terms of who goes there I definitely agree with 2...my thinking on this topic has been heavily influenced by the work of Lewis (Last Battle, Great Divorce, etc.)
@sugartomyhoney@xanga - Scripture says (and various creeds explicitly state) that Jesus was in Hell for three days. Also, Hell--like Heaven--is eternal (thus making the three days thing a bit nonsensical and quite fun to ponder). Therefore, presumably, all those who would ever go to Hell were there at the same "time" as Jesus. Presumably, while in Hell, Jesus spent his "time" ministering to people such that if they accepted Him--even while they were in Hell--they were saved.
Scripture (and the creeds, to my knowledge) is silent on the actual events that took place during the "time" Jesus was in Hell, so while this possibility is not necessarily supported by scripture, it is not necessarily rebuked either. We are told in Revelation that Satan will be locked in Hell, but it is unclear about individual souls.
In the interest of disclosure, I'm not sure how much I really agree with this idea, but from my reading and understanding (which is, admittedly, not complete), this is at least the gist of reasoning behind this idea.
@Rain_of_Mystic_Sorrow@xanga - There is more than what "feels" right or wrong. There is what can be justified with logic, reason, rhetoric, and supported by scripture.
Personally, I don't believe in Hell. I think if you're a good person in this time, you will be rewarded in the afterlife/ next life (I believe in reincarnation). But I'm not worried about the afterlife; if you focus too much on the afterlife you can't truly enjoy the life you have now.
I don't deny hell because it "seems to cruel." I deny hell because the entire idea of it is a complete joke that no thinking person could ever take seriously.
hell is a holding place, where the unsaved go, until God throws hell and the unsaved into the lake of fire, after Jesus returns to earth and we go through the white throne judgment (see Revelation 20)
I heard R.C. Sproul say that a bible student asked him once ,do you think hell is a literal lake of fire? R.C. answered, probaly not, to which the student sighed with relief. Then R.C. said ,it's likely much worse than a literal lake of fire. It is true in a sense that people choose to go there in that they have general revelation . Creation is the great big cosmic DUHH. We know there is a creator because we have a creation staring at us. It's like when you look at a building, the building is absolute proof that there was a builder. We also have conscience, con means with and science is knowledge, every time we sin we do it with knowledge that it's wrong. But general revelation is only enough information to condemn us. We need special revelation in order to be saved. That is where the gospel comes in. Also, while it is true that hell is a sense seperation from God, it's really only separation from all that is good because Revelation14:10 says that they will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb. Really there is no place that God is not there. Lets also remember the bible says those people will be cast into the lake of fire. That means God throws people into hell. It is His wrath being poured out against them for their sins. Hell is for sure forever. Our sins are an infinite crime against an infinite being, so the punishment is infinite. But God is rich in mercy! He sent Jesus to suffer and die on the cross. God's wrath was poured out on Him, so it wouldn't have to be poured out on those who would repent and trust in Him for their eternal salvation. This is not good news for those who are pershing, but to those who are being saved , it's the most amazing news you could ever hear.
Total separation from God and all that God is would be 'hell.' One may brand it 'stupid' or 'a joke', but that is a wager which we will find out soon enough where it goes. Personally, I think it a joke to assume that we somehow managed to be the only living creature to develop into this intellectual marvel which ponders the issue, and that deteriorating and dying is all there is. God promises to save all those who have faith in Christ Jesus. He may indeed save more in His divine judgment and that is something we have no right to contest, but we cannot rely upon such since to deny Christ is to call God a liar and a fraud.
Who cares?! There are too many of us living in hell on earth, NOW.
Too much wine, too much bree, too much latte, too much spare time, too much shallowness, too much devotion to what doesn't matter.
Christians have been saved! Hell is for losers, not Christian warriors. Think about victory and then make it happen!
@sugartomyhoney@xanga - Some of it is definitely inference. Assuming that God desires none to perish and assuming that in Christ God has defeated the power of death and of the grave, which are both scripturally based assumption, then possibly God will extend the option for salvation to some after death.
But there are also a couple of passages that do seem to positively imply that Jesus' atonement had salvific effect for the dead. In 1 Peter, the author describes Jesus being put to death in the flesh but being made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed freedom to the spirits "in prison, who in former times did not obey." In the next chapter, the author says "the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that they might live in the spirit as God does."
In Ephesians, Paul mentions that Christ "descended into the lower parts of the earth and made captivity itself a captive." This may not refer to the possibility of postmortem evangelism, but it also may.
Also, when Jesus says in John 5 that "the hour is coming when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live," we may take it as a figure of speech, referring to our spiritual deadness, but is it really so unfair to think he may of also meant it literally, especially taken in conjunction with the epistle passages above? Elsewhere Jesus spoke of a sin that would not be forgiven "either in this age or in the age to come." That seems to presuppose that some sins may be forgiven in the age to come.
Finally, it might be significant that Revelation make it a point to mention that the gates of the New Jerusalem are never shut. If they are not shut, is it then possible that they are open to some who come to God late?
I'm not at all convinced that this is the case. Certainly, scripture doesn't clearly teach that postmortem evangelism is standard operating procedure. But in light of these sorts of passages, as well as the reality of a God who desires all to be saved, I don't think we can deny the possibility that some (those who lived before Christ? those who never heard the gospel?) might be saved after their life on earth.
@subSacred@xanga - but can you intentionally rebel against something you do not fully comprehend?
i used to dress goth as a teenager because i wanted to go against the status quo... whatever that happened to be. in reality, it was just another trend to follow. i couldn't rebel against something i never understood to begin with.
Hey I would really love to know where in the bible it talks about Jesus being in hell for 3 days - im new to the bible and would really like to read this passage. Thanks!